Todd Greenberg has got to go!

[Perth Red]

"Maybe that's all true".Not maybe ,it was all true.
That's not the point.The point is one was one established club with an history of financial issues almost since its inception.Been around then for 28 years.They grabbed a lifeline from Rupert rightly or wrongly.

Also whether you may or may not be aware, the Sharks were in line to be axed in the future by the ARL,as part of their expansion/consolidation strategy.A hell of a strong reason for jumping ship, compared to the Reds.

As compared to one who had not even given the chance for the ARL ink contract to dry,dceided in its wisdom to grab the cash and run.Why did they feel the necessity to do so ,immediately after the ARL invite?
I'm fully aware if people offer big financials .it's hard to knock back.

If you wish to discuss morality,I suggest one did it out of necessity rightly or wrongly and one out of pure convenient haste.There is no way the Reds were in the financial ditch the Sharks were in.

If you think that is hypocritical so be it.But if you cannot see the different situations pertaining ATT for either club, then you don't; fully understand the financial implications running then.I was at the coal face League club in 95 when the Sharks decided to go to SL.It was all spelt out the reasonings for teh clubs decision.

Yet,how can it be hypocritical when I spelt out on these threads where my position was ATT and later.You'd have a point if I maintained the decision was still the right one,I have admitted it was a huge mistake and did so in the late 90s .Hardly a Jonny come lately.

You can argue till the cows come home on this one lol. You could say 28 years in the comp should have delivered more loyalty and the FANS actually voting to join SL is far more morally bankrupt than the Reds who has no loyalty as hadn't even played a game in the ARL comp. and who had a looming financial nightmare due to ARL stupidity. But we'll never agree so not much point and its water under the bridge.

Of much more concern is the current ineptitude of the current CEO and board who have failed to achieve ANY major goal of their 5 years strategic plan and who have spent more money in last 5 years than the game could have dreamt about back in 1995 yet have very little to show for it.

 

[Perth Red]

The Reds or the ARL?
IMO a person with basic understanding of costing,and knowing in advance they would be up for travel/accommodation,should have protested to the ARL.
"Hey wait on, if we are up for these costs ,you are giving us X amount in grants, we have X amount in sponsorship, and X amount from ticket sales and merchandise, the figures don't ring true.The individual visiting clubs or the ARL with cash in the Bank,should at the very least subsidise these visiting clubs travel and accommodation.We are a club penalised because of the tyranny of distance."

I will restate my view.
1) the ARL should only have introduced 2 teams in 95 not 4.I have no preference then.The fact the ARL brought in 4,made SL even more inviting .
2)If the Reds had stuck with the ARL and yes Warriors and Cowboys SL would have been stuffed.The ARL was ready to turf the Sharks in their long term consolidation strategy.They then were excpenndable,Gow knew it,and one of the reasons they went to SL,rightly or wrongly.

Both, ARL for thinking that the Reds could fund flights and accom (and remember back then flights to perth were double what they are now) for 1st grade, reserve grade and support staff. The fact the WARL accepted it shows the board back then were either very optimistic or delusional! Whilst the game was going well back then in WA a lack of decent home ground and the travel cost issue was always going to cause major financial problems. The news Ltd cheque book must have looked very tempting. I don't agree if they had stayed with the ARL they would still be here, they were staring down the financial barrel of oblivion, add in the inflated SL war costs to clubs and lack of ARL funds to bail them out and they would have been gone. Only reason Cowboys, Warriors and Storm survived the late 90's was News Ltd funding or bail outs and two of those three nearly went bust anyways. Unless News Ltd bankrolled Reds, which they clearly didn't want to do, then they would in all likelihood have been gone by now anyway.

 

[taipan]

You can argue till the cows come home on this one lol. You could say 28 years in the comp should have delivered more loyalty and the FANS actually voting to join SL is far more morally bankrupt than the Reds who has no loyalty as hadn't even played a game in the ARL comp. and who had a looming financial nightmare due to ARL stupidity. But we'll never agree so not much point and its water under the bridge.

Of much more concern is the current ineptitude of the current CEO and board who have failed to achieve ANY major goal of their 5 years strategic plan and who have spent more money in last 5 years than the game could have dreamt about back in 1995 yet have very little to show for it.

And I will continue to back my view on that.
If you had attended the meeting at the Shark's leagues club in 95,you may have clue about their fans' feelings.And by the numbers who attended,so your point about loyalty is paper thin.
Reds 'had no loyalty as they hadn't played a game" LOL Loyalty means commitment according to the dictionary.They signed a contract to commit, they didn't .Sheesh.A contract barely dry.

"A looming financial nightmare" for the Reds,the Sharks were already in the thick of a financial nightmare and had been on and off for decades.
I don't know when you came on the scene in Perth,but I doubt it was prior to the 80s,judging by your lack of knowledge on what transpired, since the Shark's admission circa 1967.

And your'e the one continually wanting the Shark's relocated, so Perth can get in.

I've read the NRL accounts for the year 2016 year.And monies spent during the Smith years for development/juniors was well down on the later years,since he left .$20.8m in 2013 $29.354m in 2016.Not huge but still increased.

I note the cost of the Bunker and its servicing.I note the cost of the introduction of the digital System involving also a stack of journos.I also note the increase of xtra costs for football/welfare and game sponsorship(entertaining in boxes, freebies etc).
.I note money being used for womens 'rl. Also additional ambassadors to help promote the game, since Smith.
The increase in monies to the states 2013 $16.3m to 2016 $30,.413m
Clubs received $132.3m in 2013,$160.177m in 2016,all within the TV contract period.

Yes revenue went up from 2014 to 2016 2014$324.375m.2015 $334.005m 2016 $350.505m
But so did costs, and so did continuing financial issues with Titans and Knights,extra admin costs for Integrity,for two extra people at H/O to assist clubs with membership.
Cost increases are something you have difficulty in acknowledging.Prendergast has read the accounts and understands the lie of the land.

Has this current admin made mistakes and stuffed up, bet your life it has.Grant being overly generous to clubs is a classic example.

If digital dept set up, is little to show for it, then their new website which includes all clubs and states under one banner for easier access must be a mirage.
If finally offloading the Titans and Knights to relieve financial pressure on Head office is considered unimportant, then you have different interpretation to me.
If lobbying the state Govt to get Sydney stadiums up to 21st century standards is inept,I want to be inept.
If providing additional staff to help membership growth is a waste of space, then I'll get wasted.Remember the current mob didn't state 400,000 members ,it was Smithy.
If removing highly expensive non performing consultants employed by a prior CEO is inefficient, so be it.
If increasing substantially funding to grassroots from 2018 is considered nothing, then let's spend more on entertainment.
An agreement in place with the RLPA,instead of strike action and bans.
Women's rl growing dramatically s not a worthwhile achievement?I call BS on no major achievements.

We know participation numbers are down, for many reasons, including lack of funding, soccer mums, other codes competing.I don't think the Alex MacKinnon incident helped, well publicised.And dopey off field incidents by the usual suspects is a turnoff.

Expansion ATM prudent not to have done so for many of the reasons above, however still believe it will be decided for inclusion 2023 onwards.

 

[taipan]

Both, ARL for thinking that the Reds could fund flights and accom (and remember back then flights to perth were double what they are now) for 1st grade, reserve grade and support staff. The fact the WARL accepted it shows the board back then were either very optimistic or delusional! Whilst the game was going well back then in WA a lack of decent home ground and the travel cost issue was always going to cause major financial problems. The news Ltd cheque book must have looked very tempting. I don't agree if they had stayed with the ARL they would still be here, they were staring down the financial barrel of oblivion, add in the inflated SL war costs to clubs and lack of ARL funds to bail them out and they would have been gone. Only reason Cowboys, Warriors and Storm survived the late 90's was News Ltd funding or bail outs and two of those three nearly went bust anyways. Unless News Ltd bankrolled Reds, which they clearly didn't want to do, then they would in all likelihood have been gone by now anyway.

So we actually agree on something.
If the Reds had stayed loyal,Canterbury,Auckland and Nth Qld and perhaps Canberra,News would be up sh*t street without a paddle.
Sharks had zero impact, and were in fact one of the last choices to join.They were the expendables.
News wanted the Dragons instead.
Disagree the Sharks ,were chopping back material under the Arko plan eventually.They could well have ended up as the Perth side if Perth and the others had remained in the ARL comp.
Remembering the ARL had $25m in 95 monies on hand, thanks to Winfield cup sponsorship in part.
Melbourne were also long term, plans for Arko and Quayle.Adelaide don't believe they were in the plans .

 

[Perth Red]

And your'e the one continually wanting the Shark's relocated, so Perth can get in.

I've read the NRL accounts for the year 2016 year.And monies spent during the Smith years for development/juniors was well down on the later years,since he left .$20.8m in 2013 $29.354m in 2016.Not huge but still increased.

I note the cost of the Bunker and its servicing.I note the cost of the introduction of the digital System involving also a stack of journos.I also note the increase of xtra costs for football/welfare and game sponsorship(entertaining in boxes, freebies etc).
.I note money being used for womens 'rl. Also additional ambassadors to help promote the game, since Smith.
The increase in monies to the states 2013 $16.3m to 2016 $30,.413m
Clubs received $132.3m in 2013,$160.177m in 2016,all within the TV contract period.

Yes revenue went up from 2014 to 2016 2014$324.375m.2015 $334.005m 2016 $350.505m
But so did costs, and so did continuing financial issues with Titans and Knights,extra admin costs for Integrity,for two extra people at H/O to assist clubs with membership.
Cost increases are something you have difficulty in acknowledging.Prendergast has read the accounts and understands the lie of the land.

Has this current admin made mistakes and stuffed up, bet your life it has.Grant being overly generous to clubs is a classic example.

If digital dept set up, is little to show for it, then their new website which includes all clubs and states under one banner for easier access must be a mirage.
If finally offloading the Titans and Knights to relieve financial pressure on Head office is considered unimportant, then you have different interpretation to me.
If lobbying the state Govt to get Sydney stadiums up to 21st century standards is inept,I want to be inept.
If providing additional staff to help membership growth is a waste of space, then I'll get wasted.Remember the current mob didn't state 400,000 members ,it was Smithy.
If removing highly expensive non performing consultants employed by a prior CEO is inefficient, so be it.
If increasing substantially funding to grassroots from 2018 is considered nothing, then let's spend more on entertainment.
An agreement in place with the RLPA,instead of strike action and bans.
Women's rl growing dramatically s not a worthwhile achievement?I call BS on no major achievements.

We know participation numbers are down, for many reasons, including lack of funding, soccer mums, other codes competing.I don't think the Alex MacKinnon incident helped, well publicised.And dopey off field incidents by the usual suspects is a turnoff.

Expansion ATM prudent not to have done so for many of the reasons above, however still believe it will be decided for inclusion 2023 onwards.

You can paint as much lipstick on the pig as you like but the facts remain, the NRL has failed in EVERY major strategic goal it set itself to achieve by this year. And spent $1.3billion+ in achieving this failure. Either the strategic plan was totally unrealistic or it has been a massive failure.
Is the state of the game today $1.3billion better than it was in 2012?
Crowds down
Tv audiences down
Club finances still fcked
NRL skint and having to spend its reserves and borrow money
No expansion at top or secondary level
Player regos down
Grassroots still fcked (according to those in the know on here)

You be the judge.

As for the next 5 years? Well we are going to shove a sht load of money down a digital dept black hole with no identified outcomes shared with the stakeholders (as for website lol, I built one as sophisticated for $30k!)

We are going to throw a sht load of money at the clubs with no KPI's attached in the hope they will become financially responsible businesses

We don't know what the grass roots money is going to achieve, it seems the $29mill spent last year didn't address the games issues

We will still have no expansion come the end of the next 5 year plan

On the plus side they wont get another RLWC to f**k up!

I will go out on a limb and suggest next 5 year plan will be very very modest in its goals despite the NRL having $2billion+ to spend!

 

[Perth Red]

If providing additional staff to help membership growth is a waste of space, then I'll get wasted.Remember the current mob didn't state 400,000 members ,it was Smithy.
.

It's not about the spending, its about the returns on the spending. Great example you highlighted here. Last year the NRL spent $4.3million helping clubs get members. Know how many this expenditure increased memberships by? 7,000!
No not 7,000 per club, 7000 in total!! Now you tell me how that is a good return on investment? They'd have been better off offering $100 to anyone who wanted to be a new member, they had have increased memberships by 43,000!

Yes spending has gone up significantly on a multitude of things, that much is obvious. But has that massive increase in spending actually had positive outcomes for the game? and is that outcome providing a good ratio of growth/development to expenditure?

another example: Has spending on the integrity unit from $450k under Gallop in 2012 to last years $3.22million actually seen anything improve? Do clubs still try and cheat the cap? Clearly yes. is the integrity unit uncovering the cheating? Seemingly no.
Are players no longer acting like dckheads? err no. Are they being treated more professionally and consistently? err no. So again you would have to question what is this massive increase in spending on the integrity unit actually delivering?

 

[taipan]

You can paint as much lipstick on the pig as you like but the facts remain, the NRL has failed in EVERY major strategic goal it set itself to achieve by this year. And spent $1.3billion+ in achieving this failure. Either the strategic plan was totally unrealistic or it has been a massive failure.
Is the state of the game today $1.3billion better than it was in 2012?
Crowds down
Tv audiences down
Club finances still fcked
NRL skint and having to spend its reserves and borrow money
No expansion at top or secondary level
Player regos down
Grassroots still fcked (according to those in the know on here)

You be the judge.

As for the next 5 years? Well we are going to shove a sht load of money down a digital dept black hole with no identified outcomes shared with the stakeholders (as for website lol, I built one as sophisticated for $30k!)

We are going to throw a sht load of money at the clubs with no KPI's attached in the hope they will become financially responsible businesses

We don't know what the grass roots money is going to achieve, it seems the $29mill spent last year didn't address the games issues

We will still have no expansion come the end of the next 5 year plan

On the plus side they wont get another RLWC to f**k up!

I will go out on a limb and suggest next 5 year plan will be very very modest in its goals despite the NRL having $2billion+ to spend!

And you can go through life ,pretending positives do not exist ,when you are an eternal pessimist and whiner.Your views are clouded because of your inherent hatred off the admin,amd unless future admins bring Perth into teh equation you will continue to do so.
I've spelt out what has happened, we all know the negatives.
The trouble is you go out on limbs on too many occasions, and get stuck there.

 

[taipan]

It's not about the spending, its about the returns on the spending. Great example you highlighted here. Last year the NRL spent $4.3million helping clubs get members. Know how many this expenditure increased memberships by? 7,000!
No not 7,000 per club, 7000 in total!! Now you tell me how that is a good return on investment? They'd have been better off offering $100 to anyone who wanted to be a new member, they had have increased memberships by 43,000!

Yes spending has gone up significantly on a multitude of things, that much is obvious. But has that massive increase in spending actually had positive outcomes for the game? and is that outcome providing a good ratio of growth/development to expenditure?

another example: Has spending on the integrity unit from $450k under Gallop in 2012 to last years $3.22million actually seen anything improve? Do clubs still try and cheat the cap? Clearly yes. is the integrity unit uncovering the cheating? Seemingly no.
Are players no longer acting like dckheads? err no. Are they being treated more professionally and consistently? err no. So again you would have to question what is this massive increase in spending on the integrity unit actually delivering?

It's not about the spending FMD LOL.One minute you complain about lack of it in WA,the next you state its' not about the spending.. Reality.It's both spending increases and utilisation of such.
Are you taht thick not to realise the bush and regional areas have been neglected and holding back funding to have a money chest is not the answer.

Smith spent large sums on useless consultants who made outlandish strategic plan predictions.You continue top ignore this fact.and his spending habits on entertainment/travel et al.$600,000 pa to do what?
He appears to have held back funding on grassroots to build up a nest egg.
He spent $750,000 on a SFS feasability study, and guess what the ARU/A league said thanks we put in zero.
Great.Let your future players base wither ,so you can have money in the bank for a rainy day.Trouble is if you continue to whiteant your grassroots base, the rainy day will land like Cyclone Tracy sooner than expected.
You live in WA,we know the effect of off field issues here, people comment on them .

As to spending on memberships,you fail to appreciate memberships are not only an increase ,but on what type of spending is involved in the increase.IOW upgrading from a sliver to a platinum membership.I know that's hard for you to understand, but in the end its about total income received by the members .Not much use having 20,0000 members gving you say $1m,when the same number could give you $12.25m.
And the additional two guys involved in memberships,would no doubt be involved in other revenue making exercises for the clubs.

The Integrity unit is not only there to police the cap, but act on findings, on betting issues, on off field issues.You continue to see things as a simple this ,when it's this plus that.You live in a cocoon .
And reality checkoff club s are smart enough to find ways around the cap under current CEOs,they will do so under future ones.that is the nature of the beast

Maybe you should ask the various charities,Indigenous and youth programs,health programs at schools, including education the code is involved with and funds,whether the money is well spent,insteadd of being the.usual armchair general who has never fired a shot in anger.

 

[Perth Red]

I've listed the positives of the last 5 years a few times, but against the weight of failure and the expenditure it cost it doesn't stack up, not even close. I don't think this admin is that much worse than the rest, they just have less excuses. Everyone slates Gallop, including me, but he had both hands tied behind his back with fractured ownership and no money to spend. Despite that the results in 2012 surpass 2016 in key areas of popularity of the game (more people attending, more watching on tv, more playing the game) with half the money spent. Smith seemed like he would shake things up, maybe for the better, maybe not. Either way he was too radical for the conservative NSWRL, sorry I mean NRL and had to go. Then it was back to our conservative best, appointing from within a no vision no rock the boat ceo. We seem destined to this mediocre admin for at least another few years, maybe forever. Maybe that Gypsy Rugby Union curse they cast on us in 1895 is the cause of our poor leadership forever more?

 

[Perth Red]

As to spending on memberships,you fail to appreciate memberships are not only an increase ,but on what type of spending is involved in the increase.IOW upgrading from a sliver to a platinum membership.I know that's hard for you to understand, but in the end its about total income received by the members .Not much use having 20,0000 members gving you say $1m,when the same number could give you $12.25m.
And the additional two guys involved in memberships,would no doubt be involved in other revenue making exercises for the clubs.

.

haha, now you're just making sht up with no evidence at all that any of that has occurred.

Yes it is about spending, but its about outcomes for that spending. Even you cant be that thick to just measure success on how much was spent? You talk about footy in the bush, so spending on grass roots has gone up significantly in the 5 years, has it solved, or even helped the issues footy in the bush are facing? See return on investment dear chap. What are we getting out from what we are putting in?

 

[taipan]

I've listed the positives of the last 5 years a few times, but against the weight of failure and the expenditure it cost it doesn't stack up, not even close. I don't think this admin is that much worse than the rest, they just have less excuses. Everyone slates Gallop, including me, but he had both hands tied behind his back with fractured ownership and no money to spend. Despite that the results in 2012 surpass 2016 in key areas of popularity of the game (more people attending, more watching on tv, more playing the game) with half the money spent. Smith seemed like he would shake things up, maybe for the better, maybe not. Either way he was too radical for the conservative NSWRL, sorry I mean NRL and had to go. Then it was back to our conservative best, appointing from within a no vision no rock the boat ceo. We seem destined to this mediocre admin for at least another few years, maybe forever. Maybe that Gypsy Rugby Union curse they cast on us in 1895 is the cause of our poor leadership forever more?

Mate you ignore expenses, then you say there have been non major plusses.i pointed them put.Make up your flipping mind.
Smith wasted money,Gallop didn't know what do with it,Grant played Santa to all the clubs and Greenberg(who ain't perfect) is the patsy for their stuff ups.\
The code had vision in 1995 bringing in Perth,and you guys helped stuff that vision up.The irony.

 

[taipan]

haha, now you're just making sht up with no evidence at all that any of that has occurred.

Yes it is about spending, but its about outcomes for that spending. Even you cant be that thick to just measure success on how much was spent? You talk about footy in the bush, so spending on grass roots has gone up significantly in the 5 years, has it solved, or even helped the issues footy in the bush are facing? See return on investment dear chap. What are we getting out from what we are putting in?

"Making sh*t up" you're at the coal face are you champ?You appear to have not a clue as to areas of responsibility in private enterprise /and or sport.
It has already been noted by one club, the values of their memberships have increased by upgrading.I get that opportunity BTW.
Oh lordy.Yet you are quite happy with assumptions and predictions and pronouncements, polishing t*rds more like it.
It's not a Pommyfish shop.Catch em and fry em.

The spending increase for grassroots is for 2018 and beyond ,yet you make crap up about the nil effect of that.None of us know.
If you don't; have a bunker in the past ,then you now have one involving extra off ground refs that's an extra cost.But it's revenue that counts.

In Qld it appears to have done so, and in addition female rl participation has increased throughout, they are plusses,Although you wouldn't have clue what a plus is.
But wait you stated grassroots has grown in WA,is that an NRL or WA responsibility? if you say WA,then it's up to the areas not the NRL.if you say the NRL,then that is plus,
I live in an area with a huge junior soccer base, the biggest in this country.You can pour a stack of money into juniors,but in the end, it;s the mums who decide, and I know from personal experience the result.

The adult rl numbers have dropped in the bush and the city that has even been acknowledged by the NRL in their report. ,that is the area of worry.Ever thought the Bush may also have economic issues with young people gravitating to the cities, clubs grabbing young bush players and if they don;t make it they stay in the city.
You've been stuck in a city too long, perhaps get out there and see problems that exist plus throw in competition from other softer codes.
I am aware of return on investment Einstein,I spent 20 years involved with accounting .I am also aware of waste, of overspending, of cash flow issues, of interest rates affecting loans,of farmers having to sell up because of poor returns, of the GFC which affected business and clubs like the Titans.
You look at everything through a crystal ball.And thinks it's visionary.Money grows on trees.

Has the NRL admin talked their eye off the ball, of course they have.Just like your mob did in 1995,couldn;t cost a school playlunch if they tried.You stated they were financially embarrassed then.If so they should not have been invited into the ARL ATT until they got their a*se into gear.

No wonder the ESL is struggling, with Pommy attitudes you portray.Venezuela loves this sort of thing, spend though you don;t have financial backing.

You're quite happy to make dreamy BS forecasts about the value of an additional TV slot in 2023 being worth about $50 Pa LOL.When the TV companies are pushing to predict what will happen next year revenue wise.You live in a time warp.

 

[M2D2]

Put. Perth Red. On. Ignore.

 

[Perth Red]

Be my guest.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think this is my favourite thread ever....

It evolves so smoothly between random topics that are still somehow always relevant to the thread topic.

Im expecting it to be onto the shoulder charge by next week. Or maybe Marriage Equality. Who the f*ck know....

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think this is my favourite thread ever....

It evolves so smoothly between random topics that are still somehow always relevant to the thread topic.

Im expecting it to be onto the shoulder charge by next week. Or maybe Marriage Equality. Who the f*ck know....

Damn, i have ruined it...

In refering to its fundiamental nature, i have made this thread self-aware and therefore made it unable to continue authentically as itself.

Damn you, Foucault!!!!!

 

[Perth Red]

Haha, indeed you have

But don't worry the NRL annual report will be out in a few weeks and we can all discuss the mediocrity of our leadership all over again with a fresh set of failure figures.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Haha, indeed you have

But don't worry the NRL annual report will be out in a few weeks and we can all discuss the mediocrity of our leadership all over again with a fresh set of failure figures.

Surely someone can be baited into another history war





....GALLOP WAS THE BEST CEO WE EVER HAD!!!!

 

[Perth Red]

Surely someone can be baited into another history war





....GALLOP WAS THE BEST CEO WE EVER HAD!!!!

The great thing about stats is.... they can prove you right!

Last CEO to expand the NRL
Biggest crowd avg under his reign
Largest avg TV audience under his reign
10 year survival

and all with conflicted ownership and 50% the revenue the merkins now have

 

[Pedge1971]

Can we close or move this please? The answer was yes and all the other bullshit does not matter.

Paragraphs and paragraphs of shit...