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Too little, too late for Knights

Pumba

First Grade
Messages
8,542
Too little, too late for Knights
BY BRETT KEEBLE

KNIGHTS coach Brian Smith had mixed feelings about the last two minutes of Newcastle's 28-12 loss to Manly at Bluetongue Stadium on Saturday night.

Smith was encouraged by the flair of chip kicks by Jarrod Mullen and Scott Dureau and the enterprising attack that spawned James McManus's second try.

But he was also frustrated by the fact it took the Knights 78 minutes to chance their arm.

Playing as well as they had to, Manly scored five tries to Newcastle's three to maintain their share of the NRL lead on 24 points.

The Knights (16) slipped from eighth to 11th and will try to avoid a third straight loss when they host the fifth-placed Dragons, who have won six on the trot, at EnergyAustralia Stadium on Saturday night.

"That last play, the last set of the game for us, just shows what we're capable of," Smith said.

"We just needed to do more of that.

"We fell into trying to grind without any real questions being asked, just carting the ball hard and strong, but they were very effective in their 'D' [defence] and just ate us up doing that.

"If we'd have played a little smarter and a bit more expansive, it's a bit more of a risk, but eventually in footy nowadays, you've got to ask some decent questions.

"Those questions in those last couple of plays were magnificent a chip kick to the winger [Cooper Vuna] followed by a chip kick to the other winger [McManus] for a try, I haven't seen that for a long time.

"They've got that skill in them, and we've got to help them to bring that out a bit more often."

Mullen said the Knights did not have enough ball to play that way for longer periods, and Manly taught them a lesson in "rolling your sleeves up and going forward".

Completing just 22 of 33 sets (67 per cent), the Knights were held to almost 500 metres less than their NRL-best season average of 1403m a game, and the Sea Eagles feasted on a 60-40 share of the possession pie.

"We gave them too many opportunities from penalties, our hit and stick wasn't right this week, and when you give them that many opportunities you're going to be limited in the sort of attack you can put on," McManus said.

"It's no good us doing it in the last two minutes when we need to be down their end putting pressure on them earlier in the game."

Newcastle missed the polish and poise of Danny Buderus and Kurt Gidley, and the muscle of Ben Cross in the middle, but Smith did not use their absence as an excuse.

"We'll welcome them back, but we came here to win with the team we had, and I don't want focus taken off the fact that we didn't win with that group of players," Smith said.

Newcastle absorbed Manly's initial onslaught and responded with tries to Vuna and McManus to lead 8-6 in the 27th minute.

But fullback Wes Naiqama spilled the kick-off after McManus's try, centre Steve Matai scored from the subsequent scrum to give Manly a 10-8 lead and they never trailed again.

The Sea Eagles dominated possession and field position to control the first 25 minutes of the second half, scoring three tries in that period, and only desperate Newcastle defence prevented a blow-out.

"I thought our boys dug really deep in the second half," Smith said.

"The plays finished 109 to 53 and that's just unheard of; they should bring the mercy rule in there."

"I'm rapt that we kept it to what we did, to be quite honest, with the amount of possession they had.

"But to be fair, they were just doing what those good, efficient teams do they stick to their plan."

Hooker Matt Hilder, who was replaced with 22 minutes left, has a bruised right shoulder and will have precautionary X-rays today to rule out a broken left hand.

"It's a bit swollen and sore but it seems all right today," Hilder said yesterday.

Manly beat the Knights 22-12 in the National Youth Competition curtain-raiser, making up for a loss by the same score when the teams met in Newcastle in March.

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Messages
3,813
Story of the last 7 years that headline! What is it with this club and it's inability to just rip opposition team's proverbial jugular's out. I actually can't think of a time when we won by more than 20 points. Mullen needs a solid support act and he doesn't have any. Manly must be looking for the get out clause in Bailey's contract. Dureau is a kid, so we are looking at two to three years before he starts to really get a grasp on his game. And lastly the bells must be ringing on Smithy's contract. Don't want it to happen but it is reality. I mean if we finish in the bottom 4 he has to go on general principle. No other club would cop this without serious questions being asked. Player cleanout and yet again no results. We are slipping and fast. I couldn't cop Reyno getting one over us Saturday night.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
Smith raves about the last try play, and how that was missing!!!Who's fault is that given the time he gave Dureau on the field??
 

Jobdog

Live Update Team
Messages
25,696
Story of the last 7 years that headline! What is it with this club and it's inability to just rip opposition team's proverbial jugular's out. I actually can't think of a time when we won by more than 20 points. Mullen needs a solid support act and he doesn't have any. Manly must be looking for the get out clause in Bailey's contract. Dureau is a kid, so we are looking at two to three years before he starts to really get a grasp on his game. And lastly the bells must be ringing on Smithy's contract. Don't want it to happen but it is reality. I mean if we finish in the bottom 4 he has to go on general principle. No other club would cop this without serious questions being asked. Player cleanout and yet again no results. We are slipping and fast. I couldn't cop Reyno getting one over us Saturday night.
Whoa. Ease up cowboy. This year has been an improvement on last year although that isn't too difficult. We're still a realistic shot at finals footy and here you are saying we might finish bottom four. I know the comp is pretty close and it is a possibility, but IMO we're more chance of making the eight than finishing bottom four.

After this weekend, we have nine games before the semi finals. Our team won't be disrupted with State Of Origin commitments. Cross might start to show us why we signed him in the first place, Kidley will be there on a regular basis as will Bedsy who will be looking to at least make the finals in his last year with the Knights. We sit on 16 points atm and hopefully we can make that 18 this weekend. That would leave us requiring six wins from our final nine matches to make the finals. Its a tough ask, but certainly if what we saw earlier in the year is any indication, not out of the question.

Look at the run home:

Rd 18 - Panthers (A) - a team like us jostling for a top eight spot
Rd 19 - Sharks (A) - a team jostling for a top four spot, but beatable
Rd 20 - Rabbitohs (H) - deadset a game we should win
Rd 21 - Eels (H) - another team jostling for a top eight spot
Rd 22 - Titans (A) - they're on the slide atm, but will be difficult to beat up there
Rd 23 - Raiders (A) - haven't had a great deal of luck down there and it will be fkn freezing
Rd 24 - Cowboys (H) -they keep finding new ways to lose and this is a game that we should win
Rd 25 - Storm (H) - Bedsy's final game for the Knights (possibly), hopefully a big crowd, an emotional night. Footy can be a funny game.
Rd 26 - Broncos (A) - Our record with the exception of the capitulation last year up there isn't too bad. Provided I stay away from that game we're a chance :p

I look at that and in general its a fairly good run home. The two competition points this week IMO are of vital importance though.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
Looking at that draw realistically I can see only 4 points that I'd be reasonably confident of us getting. Souths and the Cows. The other teams with maybe the exception of the Titans are all playing good consistant football. However I'll fly in the face of that and say I think we are a show of beating the Dragons this week. So that's 6 points.
 

Jobdog

Live Update Team
Messages
25,696
I agree with you Tony, but I also don't really see any game where I think to myself - "we're no chance".
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
I look at the draw and think we can beat all those sides - even the Storm in Newcastle at the traditional old boys game - usually our best of the season.

The side has been steadily improving and will go on improving. We might have left our run for the 8 too late, but none of those sides can take the two points for granted.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
I look at the draw and think we can beat all those sides - even the Storm in Newcastle at the traditional old boys game - usually our best of the season.

The side has been steadily improving and will go on improving. We might have left our run for the 8 too late, but none of those sides can take the two points for granted.
i agree with most of what you say Roops except that of late we have lost the intensity that we started the year with. Lets see how we go with Kids and Buderus back on a reg basis. I have to say though that I'm mystyfied with some of Smiths selections and descions lately.
 

Pika

Bench
Messages
3,641
Eels form is misleading.

Storm, at home, without nine players, a 7-2 penalty count and the best they can muster is a two point win?

There is not a side there we cannot beat.

Storm, Brisbane and Raiders will be our biggest test.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,766
it'll have to be a mighty aggressive and committed effort to turn the season around now and get on a winning streak.

the top 8 has not felt further away from us this year than right now. we're playing pretty sh*tty... even our last 2 wins were very scrappy.
 

Jobdog

Live Update Team
Messages
25,696
WTF is with all the negativity :fist:

This team is as good as most in the comp ffs.
 

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,202
I like the looks of the draw.

I reckon we can win 7/10.

All starts with the Dragons, should be a cracker, they are full of confidence atm but really havnt been tested against a strong team.

Rd 18 - Panthers (A) - Struggling with injuries, should be beatable. Havnt played them down their since that famous game in 2005 :D

Rd 19 - Sharks (A) - Will be the toughest game of the lot, but I think their attack is poor so if we can match their defence our attack should be good enough to get a close win, but 1 of the tougher games we have.

Rd 20 - Rabbitohs (H) - Really unsure on this one. Rabbitohs starting to find some form. Will be tough but I think we'll get a win here.

Rd 21 - Eels (H) - No idea with this one. I think we'll beat em, we've had the wood over them since the coach swap IMO. Should be a cracker.

Rd 22 - Titans (A) - We'll win, they're on a slide and have no front rowers.
Rd 23 - Raiders (A) - haven't had a great deal of luck down there and it will be fkn freezing
Rd 24 - Cowboys (H) -they keep finding new ways to lose and this is a game that we should win

Rd 25 - Storm (H) - This is a tough one. We always win our last home game, can we do it against the competition's best though?

Rd 26 - Broncos (A) - Will be another tough one, and if anything Broncos will be full strength by this time.

All in all, I like our chances of making a charge for the 8, especially if NSW win on Wed so then Gidley and Buderus are all happy and not dwelling on the loss, espcially Buderus.

Go Knights! :D
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,012
Anyone remember 2005 we won like the last 7 games was it? Obvoiusy we had Joey back then, however the team overall is much stronger now and we have a better coach. Seriously we can get into the top 8 easy if you ask me... Believe, promise me you will believe!!!
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Going through the draw I think we are a decent chance of getting 5/10 (incl Saints this weekend) Saints, Panthers, Rabbitohs, Eels and Cowboys are my picks.
 

Bicey_18

Bench
Messages
3,021
WTF is with all the negativity :fist:

This team is as good as most in the comp ffs.

Exactly!

We are still a huge chance to make the 8 imo, all we need is a win and we are back in contention.

I know I have said this so many times before but I honestly believe our run to the finals will start on Saturday night. Playing a team who have won 6 straight at home in front of what should be a huge crowd.. If we cant lift for that game theres something wrong. I think we will beat them, they have played well for a few weeks now but lets not forget what they can pull out .. deadset shockers. More you win the closer you are to a loss and I think that will be the case this weekend, we have the side to beat them imo.

In the future weeks more winnable games..Our record in Penrith is incredible, Souths at home, dont have a bad record at cronulla, Cows at home, Titans starting to slip, Raiders always tough away but teams have shown this year if you go with them early you can get them at the end, Parra at home..and the harder ones V Storm and Brisbane.. they will be the tests.

Its not all doom and gloom yet guys.. With Origin over we can hopefully have our full compliment of players playing week in and week out and make a late charge to the semis.. but no matter what happens.. 2008 has definently been an improved year and has shown we are well on the right track
 

BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
It will be a great effort to make the eight given that we have been dealt the worst draw in the comp. However that mainly mainfests itself in the last two rounds, when we have to back for a second dig against Brisbane and Melbourne--both likely to be on song at the biz end of the season. Meanwhile we have a stretch of games against some middle-ranked teams of similar strength to us and a couple that we should be too good for if we turn up with the right attitude. If we're not cemented in the eight but still in contention for it with two rounds to go I think that will be reasonably satisfying. It will turn those last two matches against two heavyweights into mini semi-finals for us. If they do end up being our last games of the seasons at least that will provide plenty of excitement and also be invaluable experience for our young squad from which to springboard into next year. And if two losses in those rounds do cost us a place in the semis, we will have every right to cry foul about a blatantly inequitable draw.
 

BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
Eels form is misleading.

Storm, at home, without nine players, a 7-2 penalty count and the best they can muster is a two point win?

You don't think it was more to do with complacency? They have a tendancy for it. Even last year when they went close to winning the comp they had some shockers in which they just didn't turn up, such as when the Raiders put 20 points on them in about 10 minutes. They weren't exactly on their mettle against us either, although we did play well for our biggest win of 2007. They've been really hot and cold the last few weeks after a very slow start to the season. But on their game and at full strength--ie. Hayne and Fui back in the team--they still look like they could be one of the benchmark sides imho.
 
Messages
3,818
So what are we saying..26..28 pts..with a bit of luck maybe 30...30 should get us to about 7 or 8...doubt if 26 will be good enough for top 8
 
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