Top 10 centres today

[Tommy Smith]

I can't believe I stooped to mentioning Toopi, but didn't even mention Shontayne Hape who is CURRENTLY a very fine centre.




Webb- no. But I think it's fair to say that the NRL is full of fine fullbacks at the moment, and he's one of them.

Meli, Toopi, Guttenbeil, Koopu, Kidwell, Anderson- No point mentioning most of these guys. For mine they wouldn't make the top 17 if you were naming a full strength Kiwi side on paper. Some of them would struggle to make a top 30

Webster- No, but what about Vainikolo?

Vatuvei- Would be the next big thing if he was playing for an Australian club. If not the current big thing. Would play for Australia eventually, if not now. Beast.

Hohaia, Faiumu, Tony- Faiumu is a big talent, but all 3 of these guys only get a run because NZ is a little lacking in the halves and at hooker. I admit this is our area of comparative weakness. Although at full-strength at most probably one of these guys would make the bench.

Faumuina- I would love to see what the Aussies would think of him if he was playing for a successful Aussie-based club.

Solomona- No. Dunno if he would make the Kiwi top 17 either. But he certainly isn't the worst to have off the bench.



You're basically running an irrelevant argument here by mostly naming players who wouldn't make the paper Kiwi team anyway. I said that the full strength Kiwis on paper are almost as impressive as Australia, not that we have equal depth.

Spot on.

Heck, would the likes of Daniel Wagon and Dane Carlaw have made the Kiwi team. Or currently, what about the likes of Ryles, Waterhouse and Civoniceva? Not even close IMO.

I reckon this Kiwi team is just as good as the Aussie side, certainly in the forwards where there is much more talent and creativity.

1. Brent Webb
2. Manu Vatuvei
3. Paul Whatuira
4. Iosia Soliola
5. Matt Utai
6. Benji Marshall
7. Stacey Jones
8. Ruben Wiki
9. Lance Hohaia/Louis Anderson?
10. Jason Cayless
11. Tony Puletua
12. Sonny-Bill Williams
13. Sione Faumuina

14. Roy Asotasi
15. Frank Pritchard
16. Ali Lauti'iti
17. Nigel Vagana/David Faiumu

Just look at the damage and creativity of that forward pack - SBW, Asotasi, Puletua, Pritchard and Big Ali. Aussie pack doesnt come close. And Jones/Marshall are right up there with the Aussies, too. Sia and vatuvei are two of the best young backs in the game and the others have been there and done that.

So the Kiwis depth might not be as good, but their top 17 is just as good as Australia's IMO. If not better, IMO.

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

To prove my point: if Sia did make the Kiwis alongside Whatuira, it would be no mean feat. He would have to overcome Nigel Vagana and Clinton Toopi who have both been touted at one point as arguably the best centre in the world. See what I mean? There's no place for average first-graders in a "paper" Kiwi team.

Toopi would be in the bottom 5 centres in the NRL, he is bona fide rubbish.. Fluked a few good games in the Tri-Nations when Wayne Bennett picked an out of form ageing team.. Soliola would run all over Toopi.

 

[Johns Magic]

You're basically running an irrelevant argument here by mostly naming players who wouldn't make the paper Kiwi team anyway. I said that the full strength Kiwis on paper are almost as impressive as Australia, not that we have equal depth.

The thing is, I am arguing the point that Soliola will only get an international call-up before Ben Smith because the Kiwis lack depth in their side.

If Soliola was an Aussie, he'd have at least 10 centres ahead of him in the pecking order. In the Kiwi team he has about 3, if that.

And let's be blunt here. When was the last time the Kiwis had their top team on the park? They always have numerous injuries, as do the Aussies. On their best piece of paper, the Kiwi team is outstanding, as is the Aussies. However taking into account injuries, the Aussies can still field an outstanding team. The Kiwis can't. Hence the "reality paper Kiwi team" is often pretty average.

Either way, from that full-strength Kiwi side that Tommy Smith named, only about 5 or 6 would make a full-strength Aussie side.

 

[nqboy]

You're basically running an irrelevant argument here by mostly naming players who wouldn't make the paper Kiwi team anyway. I said that the full strength Kiwis on paper are almost as impressive as Australia, not that we have equal depth.

It's an interesting discussion though. What would your Kiwi paper team be?

 

[Tommy Smith]

The thing is, I am arguing the point that Soliola will only get an international call-up before Ben Smith because the Kiwis lack depth in their side.

If Soliola was an Aussie, he'd have at least 10 centres ahead of him in the pecking order. In the Kiwi team he has about 3, if that.

And let's be blunt here. When was the last time the Kiwis had their top team on the park? They always have numerous injuries, as do the Aussies. On their best piece of paper, the Kiwi team is outstanding, as is the Aussies. However taking into account injuries, the Aussies can still field an outstanding team. The Kiwis can't. Hence the "reality paper Kiwi team" is often pretty average.

Either way, from that full-strength Kiwi side that Tommy Smith named, only about 5 or 6 would make a full-strength Aussie side.

Marshall
Asotasi
Wiki
Puletua
SBW
Cayless
One of Vatuvei/Utai

Then there's Pritchard and Faumina who IMO, if Waterhouse and Creagh can make the squad/team, then these two certainly could as well. Also, I dont watch much Super League but if Ali is in top form then he'd be a cert as well.

 

[nqboy]

1. Brent Webb - mug who had a purple patch in the 3N
2. Manu Vatuvei -I'm unconvinced
3. Paul Whatuira - good player, tremendous competitor. Great centre? No.
4. Iosia Soliola - Excellent potential, very raw. His future probably lies in the backrow.
5. Matt Utai - wouldn't make the Aussie paper side
6. Benji Marshall - terrific in attack, less frightening in defence. I'll stick with Lockyer or Barrett.
7. Stacey Jones - very good player in the twilight of his career. I'll stick with our version, Joey.
8. Ruben Wiki - I'l give you this one, our props haven't played to their reputations for several seasons now.
9. Lance Hohaia/Louis Anderson? - wouldn't come within a bull's roar of the Aussie side.
10. Jason Cayless - good player, at least the equal (on form) of his opposites.
11. Tony Puletua - I know what he can do, but haven't seen him play at that level for a year or two now.
12. Sonny-Bill Williams - Outstanding talent but injury prone.
13. Sione Faumuina - Good skills and hard as, but lets himself down with frequent brain farts.

14. Roy Asotasi - good player
15. Frank Pritchard - may well develop into a top-liner but he's not there yet.
16. Ali Lauti'iti - left for England cos he could no longer do the business in the NRL. I'm not denying his talent.
17. Nigel Vagana/David Faiumu - Vagana can play but wouldn't get an Aussie jersey. Mu wouldn't be in the picture.

The Kiwis can't match the Aussies paper team for talent. They run on emotion and when they get it right, they are very difficult to stop.

 

[nqboy]

Marshall
Asotasi
Wiki
Puletua
SBW
Cayless
One of Vatuvei/Utai

Then there's Pritchard and Faumina who IMO, if Waterhouse and Creagh can make the squad/team, then these two certainly could as well. Also, I dont watch much Super League but if Ali is in top form then he'd be a cert as well.

We're talking paper teams here Tommy, Waterhouse and Creagh don't get a look in.

Marshall ahead of Lockyer or Barrett? You're kidding, right? I'll give you Wiki, SBW and Cayless, because the Aussie prps just haven't aimed up consistently since Webcke retired. Every year someone else steps up to dominate and then fades the next year.

 

[Phillips]

Vainikolo would get into the australian side no worries

 

[nqboy]

I'd argue the toss on that one too Phillips. Until I see how he handles kicks in behind him (the traditional weakness of big wingers), I'll reserve judgement.

 

[nqboy]

I'd also like to see him doing it in the NRL.

 

[Balmain_Boy]

1. Brent Webb - mug who had a purple patch in the 3N
2. Manu Vatuvei -I'm unconvinced
3. Paul Whatuira - good player, tremendous competitor. Great centre? No.
4. Iosia Soliola - Excellent potential, very raw. His future probably lies in the backrow.
5. Matt Utai - wouldn't make the Aussie paper side
6. Benji Marshall - terrific in attack, less frightening in defence. I'll stick with Lockyer or Barrett.
7. Stacey Jones - very good player in the twilight of his career. I'll stick with our version, Joey.
8. Ruben Wiki - I'l give you this one, our props haven't played to their reputations for several seasons now.
9. Lance Hohaia/Louis Anderson? - wouldn't come within a bull's roar of the Aussie side.
10. Jason Cayless - good player, at least the equal (on form) of his opposites.
11. Tony Puletua - I know what he can do, but haven't seen him play at that level for a year or two now.
12. Sonny-Bill Williams - Outstanding talent but injury prone.
13. Sione Faumuina - Good skills and hard as, but lets himself down with frequent brain farts.

14. Roy Asotasi - good player
15. Frank Pritchard - may well develop into a top-liner but he's not there yet.
16. Ali Lauti'iti - left for England cos he could no longer do the business in the NRL. I'm not denying his talent.
17. Nigel Vagana/David Faiumu - Vagana can play but wouldn't get an Aussie jersey. Mu wouldn't be in the picture.

The Kiwis can't match the Aussies paper team for talent. They run on emotion and when they get it right, they are very difficult to stop.

Very, very biased summation there in my book. The Kiwi pack cumulatively is better than Australia's. I can't see how anyone can argue that point. They won the TN based off the pack. The centres are very high up there and whilst any two of Hape/Whatuia/Soliola may not be as good as Cooper/Gasnier/Tate the difference is fairly negligible, especially in Rep games. With Vanikiolo and Utai/Vatuvei on the wings they lose VERY little to King and Tate. They struggle in the halves, at fullback and with the hooking role. With Benji's stature growing they are on the way to fixing the halves up. I'm sure a fullback will come with time, all they need is a half and a good number 9 (Tevita Latu to step up to the plate perhaps?) and they'll be close to as good on paper. They don't quite have the superstars, but it's hardly a wide gulf. Nowhere near as wide as your post implies it is.

 

[Tommy Smith]

We're talking paper teams here Tommy, Waterhouse and Creagh don't get a look in.

Marshall ahead of Lockyer or Barrett? You're kidding, right? I'll give you Wiki, SBW and Cayless, because the Aussie prps just haven't aimed up consistently since Webcke retired. Every year someone else steps up to dominate and then fades the next year.

On form, easily. But realistically i reckon he'd have to be on the bench.

Asotasi would also be a certainty IMO. He's awesome and the type of impact prop Australia would love. Also, same goes for Puletua as he'd be the perfect compliment to Hindy/Kennedy.

 

[Lowey3]

Lyon, as mentioned, has been a 5/8 for the last two years.

Is that a joke ?

I've watch St Helens home and away every week, i can assure you he has NOT been playing 5/8th.

He played there twice last year because of injuries to key players.

You sound so confident in your post, yet you dont have a clue.

 

[melon....]

1. Gasnier
2. Cross
3. Lyon
4. King
5. Cooper
6. Tahu
7. Soliola
8. Hodges
9. Whatuira
10. Tonga

This one's pretty spot on. Anyone who puts Tate in teh top 4 and leaves Cross out of the 10 doesnt know league very well or is severely handicapped by bias.

 

[douglasallen91]

Being a Kiwi helps.

24-0

 

[sooperdooper]

No speaka tha Engrish a good ya?

sorry it is a bit hard to work and try to do this at the same time! im not perfect like you!

 

[sooperdooper]

Sia will play for his country before ben smith does.

well cant help it aussies have great centres

 

[sooperdooper]

all i can say is people who think siolia is a great centre has got to be a bit optimistic!
sure i agree he has talent but to name him in top 10 is a bit optimistic!

 

[HoLLuS]

i dont where ppl are pulling inglis from
qld dont count!
and 7 nrl matches doesnt really do justice!

isolia? gee if he is in the top 10 nrl are in trouble

who is isolia???...NRL would really be in trouble having a complete unknown.

 

[Iafeta]

Well done to the Kiwis, they were best on the day, yadda-yadda-yadda.

But everyone knows that on paper, the Aussies kick their arse. I know the game isn't decided on paper, but the point is that it is much harder to make the Aussie side. Don't even try to deny that.

24-0 champ.

Don't live in denial.

Come out of the closet and profess your undying love for the Kiwis.