TORONTO pull the plug on 2020

[KennySterling]

Hope this is not the end of the Wolfpack but it might well be.

https://www.totalrl.com/forums/inde...-toronto-wolfpack-discussion-thread/page/135/

And the RFL response to this:-

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/56914/statement--toronto-wolfpack

SBW could be available for remainder of 2019 - is that the Roosters calling ?

 

[LeagueXIII]

They'll be back next season.

 

[Pommy]

Interested to see what comes of this, seems really harsh to relegate a club who’s payers had to leave the country because of Covid induced visa reasons.
However plenty never wanted them in so this is the perfect reason to claim it was never sustainable and kick them out.

 

[Perth Red]

Interested to see what comes of this, seems really harsh to relegate a club who’s payers had to leave the country because of Covid induced visa reasons.
However plenty never wanted them in so this is the perfect reason to claim it was never sustainable and kick them out.

There is no relegation. If the Wolfpack are financially viable next year they will be in SL presuming COVID travel has sorted itself out.
I think it may make the RFL/SL a bit more hesitant about having more Nth American sides in the comp.

Sht administration by Wolfpack, they should have their players on 12 month visas like all the other SL clubs. I would make that mandatory for them after this fiasco.

 

[Pommy]

There is no relegation. If the Wolfpack are financially viable next year they will be in SL presuming COVID travel has sorted itself out.
I think it may make the RFL/SL a bit more hesitant about having more Nth American sides in the comp.

Sht administration by Wolfpack, they should have their players on 12 month visas like all the other SL clubs. I would make that mandatory for them after this fiasco.

My understanding is that as they’re not a British company they’re not eligible to sponsor players for visas. This isn’t the first time they’ve been faced with this issue so I imagine there’s more to it than shit admin, let’s face it paying players to be in Australia is going to be more expensive than getting visas sorted.

 

[deluded pom?]

Is it me or does anyone else think that PR has a downer on TWP.

 

[jim_57]

Interested to see what comes of this, seems really harsh to relegate a club who’s payers had to leave the country because of Covid induced visa reasons.
However plenty never wanted them in so this is the perfect reason to claim it was never sustainable and kick them out.

Yeh this isn't really a great surprise given all the circumstances around Covid, it was always going to hit very hard over there. If the Warriors had to fund their own way with little to no help from the NRL I'm sure they probably would have done the same thing. It's pretty sickening seeing how mamy English posters on others forums are rubbing their hands together with glee and basically saying "I told you so, RL is an M62 game". I could very easily see Super League using this as an oppurtunity to kick them while they're down, meanwhile half or more of their clubs are still having pay disputes with their players and crying poor as well.

Toronto have been robbed of any income from tickets sales and game day revenue, the extra merch sales from actually playing in Toronto plus god knows what other missed or reduced revenue that Covid has caused. Why should they fork out for stadium rent and all these new costs for a comp that hadn't even confirmed they were going to let them in on the day they played the qualifier. I certainly hope Argyle sticks around but I can see why he or anyone else in a similar position would pull the plug given how their whole existance has been handled by Super League and the attitude of it's clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

Is it me or does anyone else think that PR has a downer on TWP.

im an expansionist, I’d love for them to be a huge success, we need the game to bigger and better in northern hemisphere. But everything I see about this club, fans aside, smacks of all the other failed attempts to grow the game where one or two blocks have a bit of money and set up a club with no sustainability and no real business plan. SL is littered with examples.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/toront...1dfe-4528-9b38-f00fc8a9986c?ocid=Social-NRLFS

 

[Perth Red]

My understanding is that as they’re not a British company they’re not eligible to sponsor players for visas. This isn’t the first time they’ve been faced with this issue so I imagine there’s more to it than shit admin, let’s face it paying players to be in Australia is going to be more expensive than getting visas sorted.

they are a registered British company with their company address in Manchester. They did this to have players on visas so they could be based in uk for first part of the season. Why they put them on six month visas instead of 12 month ones only they can tell us.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10564680

 

[MugaB]

Warriors should reach out, and get loan players for the rest of the season from the wolfpack, it could be beneficial for the wolfpack to stay together as a group rather than all be split individually between multiple Nrl club they sign for
And some of the more experienced players will be able to rubb off on the younger warriors, like SBW and Lussick.
It would have been a great story, wolfpack to the warriors rescue
WOLFPACK BRIDGE!!

 

[deluded pom?]

im an expansionist, I’d love for them to be a huge success, we need the game to bigger and better in northern hemisphere. But everything I see about this club, fans aside, smacks of all the other failed attempts to grow the game where one or two blocks have a bit of money and set up a club with no sustainability and no real business plan. SL is littered with examples.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/toront...1dfe-4528-9b38-f00fc8a9986c?ocid=Social-NRLFS

There has never been an attempt to “grow the game” in the UK. What happens is the RFL bumble along until someone suggests they’ll fund a team. The RFL then mull it over for five minutes and then nod animatedly. Some of the clubs then whine and bleat about some perceived favouritism shown to the new club and do all they can to undermine it. RL in the UK doesn’t do planned expansion.

 

[emesssea]

There has never been an attempt to “grow the game” in the UK. What happens is the RFL bumble along until someone suggests they’ll fund a team. The RFL then mull it over for five minutes and then nod animatedly. Some of the clubs then whine and bleat about some perceived favouritism shown to the new club and do all they can to undermine it. RL in the UK doesn’t do planned expansion.

I've always felt this family guy episodes sums up expansion in the UK/Northern Hemisphere:

 

[Perth Red]

So in summary:
- They dont have a big enough squad (mainly because they spent stupid money on $BW) so couldn't absorb losing 7 players
- They dont have enough cash/owner was unwilling to pay players, so even when offered players loaned from English clubs to cover the loss of the visa players they didnt want to play
- They are incompetent in only getting 6 month visas for their overseas players (though I suspect this is a smokescreen for point 2)
- They left it till the last minute, AFTER the RFL had put together the fixtures, to pull out

Hmmmm.

 

[Pommy]

So in summary:
- They dont have a big enough squad (mainly because they spent stupid money on $BW) so couldn't absorb losing 7 players
- They dont have enough cash/owner was unwilling to pay players, so even when offered players loaned from English clubs to cover the loss of the visa players they didnt want to play
- They are incompetent in only getting 6 month visas for their overseas players (though I suspect this is a smokescreen for point 2)
- They left it till the last minute, AFTER the RFL had put together the fixtures, to pull out

Hmmmm.

Why did spending big on SBW effect their squad size? Haven’t they topped out the cap?
Why would you want to pay for the dregs of other SL teams when you’ve no income stream.
You have still failed to provide any evidence the visa issue is anything but conjecture.
Why would they pull out earlier if they thought the visa issues could be resolved?
If these 12 month visas are so easy to come by why haven’t they just applied for them now?

 

[Perth Red]

Why did spending big on SBW effect their squad size? Haven’t they topped out the cap?
Why would you want to pay for the dregs of other SL teams when you’ve no income stream.
You have still failed to provide any evidence the visa issue is anything but conjecture.
Why would they pull out earlier if they thought the visa issues could be resolved?
If these 12 month visas are so easy to come by why haven’t they just applied for them now?

- Well they only have X amount to spend on salaries and $BW took a massive chunk of it. They are running with a 23 man squad, by far the smallest of any SL club (most clubs running 30 man squads). Either they are paying well overs or with finite money to spend they have thrown it all at the stardom of sonny rather than building a quality squad with some depth.
- Because you have a commitment to fulfill your obligations as a SL club maybe? Rovers said we will lose over 500k this year because we are starting back up with no crowds, it would have financially been much better for us to withdraw as well and pick it up next year as I'm sure would be the case for a lot of clubs.
- Not sure what you mean, the Wolfpack club and RFL have explained abut the 6 month visa issue, if they had 12 months like every other English SL club it wouldn't have been an issue (though as I said without income I think the visa thing is a convenient excuse to not play and not pay the players and other expenses of competing)
- I doubt it, if they were committed to playing out the season (and I suspect if they were getting the SL grant!) they would have accepted the loan players and played out the year in UK.
- Maybe you cant once you have already been granted a visa? most times you cant apply for an extension or second working visa in same 12 month period.

Typical RL really, maybe SL should have used some of the loan to help them out a bit, streamed live their games online back to Canada and helped them stay afloat and not damage the game in this way? They could have covered the extra costs only. We are notorious for expanding on a whim with no safeguards or support available.

 

[Pommy]

- Well they only have X amount to spend on salaries and $BW took a massive chunk of it. They are running with a 23 man squad, by far the smallest of any SL club (most clubs running 30 man squads). Either they are paying well overs or with finite money to spend they have thrown it all at the stardom of sonny rather than building a quality squad with some depth.
- Because you have a commitment to fulfill your obligations as a SL club maybe? Rovers said we will lose over 500k this year because we are starting back up with no crowds, it would have financially been much better for us to withdraw as well and pick it up next year as I'm sure would be the case for a lot of clubs.
- Not sure what you mean, the Wolfpack club and RFL have explained abut the 6 month visa issue, if they had 12 months like every other English SL club it wouldn't have been an issue (though as I said without income I think the visa thing is a convenient excuse to not play and not pay the players and other expenses of competing)
- I doubt it, if they were committed to playing out the season (and I suspect if they were getting the SL grant!) they would have accepted the loan players and played out the year in UK.
- Maybe you cant once you have already been granted a visa? most times you cant apply for an extension or second working visa in same 12 month period.

Typical RL really, maybe SL should have used some of the loan to help them out a bit, streamed live their games online back to Canada and helped them stay afloat and not damage the game in this way? They could have covered the extra costs only. We are notorious for expanding on a whim with no safeguards or support available.

SBW is a marquee player so doesn’t only a nominal fee com out of the amount x? My understanding is there salary issues are paying overs to other squad players rather than SBW.

Shouldn’t the SL have some kind of commitment to helping it’s clubs in this time of crisis? I haven’t seen any evidence the SL were willing to do anything other than allow Toronto to pay the wages of players the other clubs didn’t want. Hardly a good deal.

I have seen statements about visa issues but nothing other than you saying they’re even eligible for these 12 month visas. Just seems like hear say until you provide a link to something.

 

[Perth Red]

SBW is a marquee player so doesn’t only a nominal fee com out of the amount x? My understanding is there salary issues are paying overs to other squad players rather than SBW.

Shouldn’t the SL have some kind of commitment to helping it’s clubs in this time of crisis? I haven’t seen any evidence the SL were willing to do anything other than allow Toronto to pay the wages of players the other clubs didn’t want. Hardly a good deal.

I have seen statements about visa issues but nothing other than you saying they’re even eligible for these 12 month visas. Just seems like hear say until you provide a link to something.

Not talking about his value on the cap, I'm talking about the fact Wolfpack only have $X to spend on players salaries in their budget and he has clearly used up such a big chunk of that that they cant afford a full squad. I mean the other 22 players are pretty avg so I very much doubt they are commanding big wages! Loan players are not players other clubs dont want, especially in this climate with no reserve grade, some decent 19-30 squad players would be available to get games under their belt Id have thought.

Another conspiracy theory, Wolfpack had a lot of bog avg players on decent longer term contracts from their promotion year, clearly not good enough for SL given their first 6 game performances. Pull out of the comp this year, make all contracts null and void and rebuild the squad for next year. Possible?

Agree as I put, for the integrity of SL some of the RFL loan money should have been made available to them to fulfill their commitments. Maybe it was and Argyle didnt want it, who knows?

Well given every other English SL club (and Wolfpack for all intents and purposes are an English based SL club) gets 12 month visas for its overseas players I can see no logical reason that Wolfpack players would have had any problems. You have to ask the question why they are on 6 months rather than 12 months; cost saving or stupidity or just not considered necessary. Who knows?

 

[Pommy]

You have to ask the question why they are on 6 months rather than 12 months;

Literally what I’ve been asking you to do this entire thread.
I don’t imagine foreign nationals can just set up shell companies and then get visas for foreigners as easy as you think.

this article states they have a different situation due to not being a British club. Which is inline with everything else I’ve read and heard, you are the only person saying different and either can’t or refuse to post a link to back your claim up.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5650283

 

[Pommy]

Not talking about his value on the cap, I'm talking about the fact Wolfpack only have $X to spend on players salaries in their budget and he has clearly used up such a big chunk of that that they cant afford a full squad. I mean the other 22 players are pretty avg so I very much doubt they are commanding big wages!

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/toronto-could-ask-for-salary-cap-dispensation/

An article talking about how Toronto were potentially breaching the cap, so I ask again how does paying SBW a lot make any difference to having a squad of 30 when his wages are outside the cap they were already potentially breaching?

 

[Perth Red]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/toronto-could-ask-for-salary-cap-dispensation/

An article talking about how Toronto were potentially breaching the cap, so I ask again how does paying SBW a lot make any difference to having a squad of 30 when his wages are outside the cap they were already potentially breaching?

If they are paying full cap for just 23 players of that caliber then they are incredibly poorly managed!