Tri Nations and World Cup

[dimitri]

how do people speak emoticon?


you are an idiot


rugged


go back to the yawnyawn forum where you belong

 

[screeny]

Ho ho, nice point Dimitri, I agree; nice quip, rugged, very amusing.....(Irefuse to add a smiley emoticon!)

Getting people speaking their indigenous tongues sends out a very powerful message.

 

[ali]

I really can't see PNG v Russia making any money in Townsville. There would be embarassing footage of a 3/4 empty stadium which would be damaging to the credibility of the World Cup.

The opportunities for convincing the public about how international the RLWC is by showing 15,000 passionate supporters packing out a stadium in PNG, and by having TV ads featuring barefoot kids in threadbare NRL jerseys kicking a footy around in a misty highlands village would benefit the WC overall far more.

This changes perceptions in Australia that the RLWC is actually something people in other countries care about, which would get more people to take the RLWC seriously, which would get more people going to RLWC matches.

I totally agree with this. I think it is worth sacrifising a game in Aus that probably would be lucky to break even, for a match in PNG that would showcase the fanaticism of the Papuans towards their national sport. I think the whole of PNG would go mental if a couple of world cup games were played up there.

 

[rugged]

I know you hate smileys screeny.

I don't hate emoticons, I just object to going into a thread and all that is new is one of Dim's rows of smileys.

 

[Ari Gold]

I really can't see PNG v Russia making any money in Townsville. There would be embarassing footage of a 3/4 empty stadium which would be damaging to the credibility of the World Cup.

The opportunities for convincing the public about how international the RLWC is by showing 15,000 passionate supporters packing out a stadium in PNG, and by having TV ads featuring barefoot kids in threadbare NRL jerseys kicking a footy around in a misty highlands village would benefit the WC overall far more.

This changes perceptions in Australia that the RLWC is actually something people in other countries care about, which would get more people to take the RLWC seriously, which would get more people going to RLWC matches.

I totally agree with this. I think it is worth sacrifising a game in Aus that probably would be lucky to break even, for a match in PNG that would showcase the fanaticism of the Papuans towards their national sport. I think the whole of PNG would go mental if a couple of world cup games were played up there.

yeah i agree......but in reality, you have to look at the lack of Facilities, TV coverage, and the problem of Urban violence (didnt the kangaroos a few years back play in PNG and there was a lot of trouble caused?)so when all the factors add up there is NO WAY IN HELL they will let a match be held up there....even if it means that they'll be sacrificing a 15,000 crowd, plus good PR.

 

[yakstorm]

Okay some facts about the 2008 Rugby League World Cup. The tournament is currently being evaluated by private consultants hired by the ARL and RLIF. These consultants have been involved with other sporting World Cups including the last Cricket World Cup in South Africa and Zimbabwe so they aren't foreign to the concept.

Their report and plan for the 2008 RLWC is expected to be finished in March. In which by that time logos, venues, teams, qualifiers and the rebranding and revamping of the RLIF will be known. (Whether it will be announced to the public at that time I don't know).

The ARL, NRL and RLIF are very keen on taking matches outside of NSW, Queensland and NZ. This is why the NRL is taking games to Perth over the next three-four years, as well wants to build up the Storm's profile in Melbourne.

No RLWC match will be played in PNG, its just not feasible, and unless they secure bigger sponsors then they are expecting and/or a bigger TV deal, I don't see that changing.

The match will be shared between Australia and NZ, cause they will be able to achieve a greater amount of government support and TV revenue for the tournament as a result.

A significant part of the theme for the World Cup will be the very interesting, unique and glorious history of League,

 

[dimitri]

that sounds very promising

matches across australia and nz to get government support


just another question - would it be possible to get support from the individual state governments as well? - although the vic gov wouldnt be much help :roll:


great to see games in perth leading up to the world cup

but what about adelaide!!!

logos are also important

its time the rlif comes up with a recognisable logo

 

[taipan]

I await the cynics to come out of the woodwork(from the union media) ,when the official announcement is made.
Still if there is a March 2005 announcement,it gives 3 3/4 years to get things right.
There has to be some publicity on the countries with home grown competitions which are involved,and that the players play in those comps.
No made up countries please,the public are not stupid,and the press will be first to pounce.
I still cant work out if there are only 12 teams,how they are going to spread it over NSW Qld Vic NZ and WA.Maybe the prelims in the minor states and the semis and finals in Brisbane,Sydney and Auckland.

 

[Atticus Finch]

What a great thread this is. Some great ideas especially from Dimitri and Screeny. Hope someone with some power reads it.

 

[thommo4pm]

Thanks for that update Yakstorm, that all sounds very promising indeed, and if the plans come off the boost for League across Australia will be massive.
I guess another important thing now is to also make sure this happens every 4 years.
If it's a success in Australia/NZ in 2008, then I think maybe France should get the following one. The game will hopefully be back and pumping in France by 2012 with hopefully a 2nd team in the ESL.
Or
If not France then take it to the USA or Lebanon, I don't think any of the 3 majors would need the second world cup, give it to the emerging nations.
USA could surely attract the right TV deals and corporate backing for a League World Cup by 2012, that is assuming further progress has been made between now and 2008 by the Americans.

With a 12 team format, how do you all see that working?
Would it be 2 pools of 6 teams, with each team playing each other once in that pool? If that was the case then the Kangaroos could play their games in each of the capital cities in Australia.
Then the top 4 from each pool progress to the next round or top 3? I think a set up like the Cricket World Cup would be the go.
Just trying to establish a good set-up.

 

[yakstorm]

No made up countries please,the public are not stupid,and the press will be first to pounce.

This is one thing I'm glad to say, that wont be allowed to happen. All nations that compete in qualifers and so on will need a minimum number of players from that nation, as well a domestic competition of a certain size.

The exact numbers haven't been confirmed yet for the qualifications, but the code is learning from past mistakes.

The Emerging Nations World Cup should also still exist, same during the 07-08 period there will be the Womens World Cup. Students World Cup and maybe even a Police World Cup.

 

[griff]

Without understating problems with PNG, it isn't as if it is completely beyond the bounds of possibility to play there. It shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Sure, way back in 1991 there was some crowd trouble mainly caused by over-zealous policemen, but since then they have hosted test matches against Great Britain, New Zealand and France, and a test against Australia in 2001 just after September 11 without any problems. People paid 15 kina to get in and it was televised live in PNG on the (at the time) Packer-owned EMTV. So getting highlights quality TV coverage will not be any problem whatsoever.

If these consultants they have brought in were involved in planning the 2003 Cricket World Cup they will know the value of the matches that were held in Zimbabwe, Kenya and Namibia. These matches (particularly in Kenya) massively boosted the game in those countries.

If they could play a World Cup cricket match in Zimbabwe with the massive troubles there, you could easily play a RLWC match in Papua New Guinea.

Even if each match in PNG makes a small loss, it would easily be worth it in the PR benefits to the RLWC and benefits to the game in PNG.

 

[griff]

Just a couple of quick points.

They shouldn't lock in the nations who get to attempt to qualify too early because this ignores the fact that the RLIF can use the WC as a carrot for fringe nations to meet certain targets.

For example if we say you need x number of clubs and x number of players by the end of 2006 to attempt to qualify this will encourage countries like Georgia, Estonia, Canada, South Africa, Jamaica, Holland etc to make an extra effort to put in place competitions that will meet the criteria.

Some sort of cash allocation when (if) they are accepted into the qualification process would also help give them something to aim for.

Second point. They should change the name of the Emerging Nations World Cup to avoid confusion with the actual World Cup. It is easy for lazy journos to often leave out the Emerging Nations bit, and it is pretty damaging to have reports of 700 people watching a "Morocco v Japan World Cup match". I think RLIF Trophy or something would be better, and it would also increase the RLIF's profile.

 

[screeny]

Eaxctly Griff. That's why I maintain the years leading up to the WC are more important than the finals themselves as it allows fringe nations, weakling nations to get their admins and structures up to speed which in the long run is far more valuable to the game than seeing a team put together potentially for only a week or 10-days to play in the all singing all dancing WC.

 

[griff]

OK agreed, so how should it all work in practice?

In March they come out and announce a 12 (but hopefully 16) team World Cup in Australia and New Zealand (and hopefully a couple of matches in PNG and 1 in New Caledonia).

Then they say there will be 4 (hopefully 8) places open to regional qualifiers. They then issue formal invitations to each potential nation to enter regional qualifying, pending them meeting the criteria.

In order to enter regional qualification competitions a nation will need to have at least 4 clubs playing a domestic competition of at least 6 weeks duration and have at least 80 players at the end of 2006.

Any nation that meets these criteria is given say $25,000.

A detailed plan for regional qualifiers is then drawn up for matches during 2007. From these competitions 4 (or 8) qualifiers will make it to the World Cup in 2008, which will guarantee them a distribution of say $100,000 from World Cup profits. Some of this should perhaps be pre-paid before the WC in order to pay for extra coaching, training camps, etc.

 

[screeny]

I read that Lewis wants Eng, Fra, NZ and Aus to automatically qualify. Great.
And for 4 qualifiers to come from NH, and 4 from SH. No problem there either, really.

But aren't there much more NH sides than SH?

NH: Sco, Wal, Ire, USA, Holland, Ita, Mor, lebanese, Georgia, Russia, Serbia, Malta, Greece.

SH: PNG, SA, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Cooks.

I must've missed some big ones, eh?

Now I know some people will say 'what about Argy, Tokelau, Germany etc etc ' but they've not really started yet. Georgia is at least attending meetings with matches scheduled and things like that.

So on the above rudimentary count we have a bit of a disparity. Surely it should be five NH and three SH?

 

[yakstorm]

Argentina like Georgia, could be real surprise packets. With strong Union competitions, there is the possibly that with the World Cup on offer, some talented players might 'cross codes' just so they could represent their nation.

Argentina has also been going for at least 2 years now, so I think they have proven their worth, more so than say Italy, Malta or Greece atm.

Perhaps for the qualifers it should be 3 from NH, 3 from SH and then two repacharge ones, meaning if the quality is there you could have 5 NH qualifers, or vice versa, 5 SH ones.

 

[Lantana]

Accountants???? Dimitri, are you for real? I am sure that reads consultants, as in marketing, promotion, events and advertising consultants etc.
You are a joke.
You come on these boards and dribble on about how hopeless the IRLF are and you can't even read.
Can somebody please present Dimitri an award for being the first to have 5000 useless posts on this message board.

 

[griff]

Griff, France are original WC founder members and also politically they are the fourth strongest RL nation. It would be insulting for them to have to qualify while Wales automatically qualify.

Also, by 2008 they'll have had two years of full professionalism under their belts and will be a legitimately stronger side.

To clarify what I meant, I'm not actually suggesting France should have to qualify either.

If sides likes Wales, France and Papua New Guinea have to qo through the pretence of qualification it would be a waste of time and money. Games like Wales v Serbia would be meaningless cakewalks.

I personally think the 8 quarter-finalists from RLWC 2000 should all make it through automatically. Then qualification battles would be more evenly matched and could be done with less expense - Russia v Serbia, Holland v Scotland, Fiji v Cook Is etc.

Either that or the Test playing nations + England and Wales qualify automatically.

 

[screeny]

Then don't play Wales v Serbia.

Play Wales, Ireland and Scotland in some northern group with the result that one side misses out. You'll have real meaningful matches there, of an even standard and with something to really play for.

And if the pathway is there and if the Serbs get 3-4 Aussies to bolster their side they'll be strong too, which in turn offers real validation to the whole process of playing qualifiers.

I disagree with one off qualifiers, I reckon they should just use existing tournaments, tweaking them slightly.