Tri Nations - Game 3: Australia v New Zealand - Sat June 30, MCG, Melbourne

[Iafeta]

The good, I'm not sure Australia can get much better whereas I think New Zealand has a heck of a lot of improvement in them. The rest of the good, the loosies, although Rodney Soiaolo blew a try in the first half with his hands. The scrum is very good, and will result in much dominance when we see a referee who knows how to referee a scrum properly.

The bad, as some have pointed out, Carter's form, Mauger has gifted two tries in two weeks at pivotal times (intercept, and a try following a kick out on the full), the centre position although I think Toeava was showing he is a good 13, the execution all around, a lot of dropped pill when the line is beckoning, it seems like they want to go sideline to sideline without gaining dominance at the ruck, and the lineout throwing is poor. Yep, Gear missing Ashley-Cooper was an absolute howler of a miss, I'm not sure how he missed it, the bloke stood there waiting to be tackled, panic? Either way, Doug Howlett had a fine super 14, he's been picked when he's gone ordinary, this year he's gone fantastic and misses out?


With that in mind, I think the following team is the one shaping up for the World Cup

15 Miliaina
14 Sivivatu
13 Toeava
12 McAlister
11 Rockocoko
10 Carter (he'll come good, but for now it's worth giving Evans a shot at 10 to put the heat on Dan)
9 Kelleher
8 So'oialo
7 McCaw (c)
6 Collins
5 Williams
4 Robinson
3 Hayman
2 Oliver
1 Woodcock

Bench

4 Forwards

Jack
Masoe
Tialata (although if Somerville regains fitness in time...)
Mealamu

3 Backs

Evans
Weepu
Howlett

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Most games I've watched have gone through the whole, crouch, touch, pause, engage thing. I thought this was clearly the case on sat night. I also thought the 2007 S14 was season was the worst because of it. I hear changes are in the wind. I certainly hope so.



I didn't see it that way, but there ya go. At the end of the day, I think it's going to be a good loss for the AB's anyway.

I'm kinda mystified by that. I'm not saying they don't go through the process, but I'm saying that the frontrows always engage AS the referee is saying engage- they just pre-empt him saying it by starting to engage just after he says "pause". It's kinda like in the 100m sprint, where they call you for a false start if you start before 0.1 seconds or something- if the start and the gun are simultaneous, the sprinter has obviously pre-empted it.

Whenever the referee puts a little pause in before saying "engage", the scrums inevitably engage anyway- that's the proof of what I'm saying.

There were iirc 2 occasions (there was certainly one, I think two) where the scrums came together on Saturday and the referee never said engage at all! I believe they were both penalties against the ABs as well.

 

[skeepe]

According to Planet Rugby, Howlett was away on maternity leave.

:lol:

 

[Iafeta]

Ahhh... I believe fatherhood called for him.

I'd much rather have had him in there for Rico Gear just quietly. Dougie's had a good year.

 

[Iafeta]

There were only 2-3 penalties against Aus in the scrum..compared to the what 10 or so the AB's committed at the breakdown! Simple- do not give away penalties at the breakdown- it aint that hard!

Mate there were a few questionable ones there, notably one on McCaw where he made the tackle, got straight to his feet, the Wallaby held out and got a penalty.

I think McCaw's technique at the ruck in doing things more legally has improved this season. Without a doubt in my mind he's been the All Blacks' best.

 

[lockyno1]

Mate there were a few questionable ones there, notably one on McCaw where he made the tackle, got straight to his feet, the Wallaby held out and got a penalty.

I think McCaw's technique at the ruck in doing things more legally has improved this season. Without a doubt in my mind he's been the All Blacks' best.

Questionable or not, and I agree there were a few dud calls (mind you they went both ways). But you can only give away so many ruck infringements before the ref has to step in and stop it. I will say that Mauger being offside and taking out Giteau was MORE a yellow card offence compared to what Heyman did but at the same time you can't expect a ref to keep blowing penalties without yellow carding someone! I do agree with McCaw as he has improved a fair bit.

 

[JJ]

The good, I'm not sure Australia can get much better whereas I think New Zealand has a heck of a lot of improvement in them. The rest of the good, the loosies, although Rodney Soiaolo blew a try in the first half with his hands. The scrum is very good, and will result in much dominance when we see a referee who knows how to referee a scrum properly.

The bad, as some have pointed out, Carter's form, Mauger has gifted two tries in two weeks at pivotal times (intercept, and a try following a kick out on the full), the centre position although I think Toeava was showing he is a good 13, the execution all around, a lot of dropped pill when the line is beckoning, it seems like they want to go sideline to sideline without gaining dominance at the ruck, and the lineout throwing is poor. Yep, Gear missing Ashley-Cooper was an absolute howler of a miss, I'm not sure how he missed it, the bloke stood there waiting to be tackled, panic? Either way, Doug Howlett had a fine super 14, he's been picked when he's gone ordinary, this year he's gone fantastic and misses out?


With that in mind, I think the following team is the one shaping up for the World Cup

15 Miliaina
14 Sivivatu
13 Toeava
12 McAlister
11 Rockocoko
10 Carter (he'll come good, but for now it's worth giving Evans a shot at 10 to put the heat on Dan)
9 Kelleher
8 So'oialo
7 McCaw (c)
6 Collins
5 Williams
4 Robinson
3 Hayman
2 Oliver
1 Woodcock

Bench

4 Forwards

Jack
Masoe
Tialata (although if Somerville regains fitness in time...)
Mealamu

3 Backs

Evans
Weepu
Howlett

I'd pretty much go with that team too... I'm big on impact from the bench, so would prefer Flavell to Jack and Bendon Leonard to Weepu...

Leornard is just the halfback you want in the situation the All Blacks had on the weekend - he's electric

 

[tye]

The good, I'm not sure Australia can get much better.
Mate that would be the most worrying aspect of the whole game for the Kiw's, Australia were woeful for the 1st 60 minutes, poor kick off, missed penalty shots, terrible scrums, kicking out on the full in general play. In fact I dont think we can play much worse. In saying that I'm sure the kiwis will be much better next time & will still start firm favourites for the world cup as they deserve as they have been the best team in the last few years. But what this result does is give the other nations belief that they can compete.

 

[Iafeta]

I think that's a good thing though. They've gone into the World Cup with this massive aura in the past, this team is better than the one's sent previously (particularly '95, '99, and probably '03), I think this was the loss they had to have to get focus back. Australia are good enough to beat New Zealand, whether or not they are consistently though is the question they must answer. They knocked NZ out in 2003, but from recollection NZ were all over them earlier that year. Australia are a good 'big game' team, whereas New Zealand tend to get worn out by the media side of it.

The problem I see is this reconditioning nonsense, and how it's played havoc with blokes who need match practice to ensure the 'radar' is on track. Mauger and Carter look well below their best, and tactically they are being shown up along with ordinary execution also. But I think other teams are viewing the "how do we get them through this year" thing as a problem too and you only have to view it on the back of what the Seth Efrikans are doing... they are now resting a lot of their top line players. The question they'll have to ask is this period of time off, does it leave them enough time to get back match practice necessary for the final stages of the World Cup. Will Australia have peaked too early? Perhaps when all is said and done the reconditioning is effective, I just don't like how it seems to have messed with the 'decision makers' of the team, which is where New Zealand has been so strong in for a couple of years now.

 

[kia ora storm]

IMO I would bring Conrad Smith in for the next game...McCalister has had his shot and failed.

Rico Gear needs to go as well...Howlett brings experience to the lineup and I would put him in against Oz.

 

[JJ]

I think Smith still has injury problems - he's become a long shot for the World Cup.

 

[Twizzle]

gee our scrummaging attracts alot of interest, last year it was our line outs



White lashes Australian scrum

By Tom Wald
July 02, 2007

SOUTH Africa coach Jake White believes Australia still has major deficiencies in its scrum and plans on exploiting the problem area in Saturday night's clash in Sydney.

White is no stranger to mind games and says he is looking at having a chat with New Zealand referee Paul Honiss this week to ensure there is a "fair" scrum contest at Telstra Stadium.

The charismatic coach lavished praise on the Wallabies saying they proved they were a "World Cup force" following their 20-15 upset win over New Zealand.

But he was less kind when asked if Australia had solved its scrum problems and insinuated the Wallabies were pushing the rules to the limit.

"I don't think so, that is one area I really want to talk to the referee about," he said. "I thought (referee) Marius Jonker was outstanding the way he refereed the scrum (in the weekend's match).

"The scrum for me was a non-issue, there wasn't scrums, every scrum was a short arm or a penalty.

"That is something that concerns me. The Australians seem to be doing something very different from all the other teams.

"Their front row goes in first and they get a later delayed push from the five guys behind them, which I don't quite think is the right way you should be scrummaging."

The Wallabies scrum has been constantly under the spotlight following their infamous meltdown against England at Twickenham in 2005.

There were again signs of some cracks opening up against New Zealand's imposing front row of Carl Hayman, Anton Oliver and Tony Woodcock in Melbourne.

"The All Blacks at times got on top of the scrum. There was one time when (Richie) McCaw picked up the ball at the side of the scrum going backwards and nearly scored," he said.

"That was one of the times where it had a huge impact on the game, had he scored then the match would have been over, so as I said the scrum is very important to us and something we pride ourselves on it.

"We have got a big pack of forwards and I don't want it to be stop start, all I want is a fair contest."

The Springboks have traditionally put huge importance on their scrummaging which they have seen as being a key to their physical style of play.

White again dismissed criticism of his second-string squad, comparing the decision to the Australian cricket team opting to rest key players before their World Cup earlier this year.

AAP

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22004789-23217,00.html

 

[JJ]

Your lineout is brilliant.

Your scrummaging is appalling, and the ref on Sat did you a lot of favours - I think Connolly and Gregan got into his head a bit - which is what White's trying to do now. Gregan wouldn't put the ball in which I think he should have been penalised for, and surely the Australian pack has some obligation to hold the scrum steady on their put it??? The All Black scrum was rock-solid when we had the ball, so it was clear who was dominant. Quite savvy work from the Aussies

 

[Twizzle]

give us a another year and we'll get our scrums right

 

[JJ]

give us a another year and we'll get our scrums right

Probably because they won't have to face Hayman :lol:

Dunning is rubbish, but the ref helped him out hugely. There's no way the All Blacks were bring the scrums down - whey would they??? Yes they were creating pressure, but Dunning was going to ground very quickly.

 

[AuckMel]

I'm kinda mystified by that. I'm not saying they don't go through the process, but I'm saying that the frontrows always engage AS the referee is saying engage- they just pre-empt him saying it by starting to engage just after he says "pause". It's kinda like in the 100m sprint, where they call you for a false start if you start before 0.1 seconds or something- if the start and the gun are simultaneous, the sprinter has obviously pre-empted it.

Whenever the referee puts a little pause in before saying "engage", the scrums inevitably engage anyway- that's the proof of what I'm saying.

There were iirc 2 occasions (there was certainly one, I think two) where the scrums came together on Saturday and the referee never said engage at all! I believe they were both penalties against the ABs as well.

No need to be mystified. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I thought I did.

The lead up to engage is far too long. At the risk of repeating myself, I hear that's going to change. I certainly hope so.

 

[Thomas]

For those who think the Aussies can't play any better....we played like crap for the first 40 minutes. We let NZ dictate the speed of play, which really shouldn't have happened.

Larkham had a quiet night, like Carter. He can play a lot better.

Huxley is an abomination at fullback. Latham will provide the team with a bit more speed and brains.

Palu went off injured but I was very impressed with Hoiles. I thought he had a blinder as another fetcher.

Giteau can also play a lot better.

Both teams will improve greatly....to say the Aussie team can't play any better shows a lack of understanding of the team itself.

 

[JJ]

The All Blacks were crap for the entire 80...

Will Latham be back for the World Cup? And how many matches will he have beforehand? He's certainly a key. I'd think both teams would hope to improve on that, and again I think the officiating helped Australia a lot

People shouldn't underestimate the impact of the travel, and more importantly the disruption of having McDonald pull out on the eve of the match - IMO (retrospectively I admit) they should have put Nick Evans straight into full back.

I do hope that come the big games we have Robinson and Williams as our locks, McAllister at 12, and neither Mauger nor Gear anywhere near the 22.

Carter hasn't looked himself yet, and the expectations are huge - but he's always handled them in the past.

 

[ozbash]

if aussie can sort their scrum out, they,ll be a force.

good set of backs imo.

 

[lockyno1]

good set of backs imo.

Not if Huxley is one of them!:lol: