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Trial v Sharks

betcats

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23,956
Id be happy to staines, May or Turuva on that wing tbh. Staines would be my first choice but I think all 3 could do the job. Turuva looks like a young To'o with a bit more skill, May seems to be very quick and has the ability to make good metres based of his reserve grade and one first grade game last year and staines is genuine speedster with a knack for getting across the line.

For now with Tago coming in on one side i'd like to see Staines get the shot on the right side, he and Critta are familiar with each other and are a good defensive combo but again I wont be surprised if it is May or even Turuva getting a shot over staines at some point this year. One of May or Turuva needs to spend plenty of time at centre in reserve grade so we can have another back up there.
 

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Some people don't have the longest memories. Our 2020 GF loss was in part due to a lack of speed. It really is the missing dimension in our team. Last year we created lots of opportunities - even at the back end of our season when our attacking form was down - but we had a low conversion rate. Much of that was clunky execution but a chunk of that was we didn't have the speed to turn some of those linebreaks into tries the way the Storm, Manly and the Bunnies can.

Everyone keeps talking about the modern winger needing to make big metres taking hard carries. If that were so why not just chuck 2nd rowers with above average speed and agility on the wing then? I am okay with having one wing being a Mansour/To'o type player but not both. We then become one dimensional and easy to predict and defend.

Besides if we are sticking with Edwards there is your 2nd metre eater anyway. There is no need for 3 - otherwise what the hell are the forwards doing?
What's that got to do with Salmon being too slow to play second row? The dude's probably around as quick as Capewell?

If anything his size and lack of strength compared to forwards is the issue in that position.
 
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tripster

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What's that got to do with Salmon being too slow to play second row? The dude's probably around as quick as Capewell?

If anything his size and lack of strength compared to forwards is the issue in that position.

It was only one game, and wasn't against an FG side, but Salmon was tackling really well yesterday. He didn't seem to be having any issues with defence. We never relied on Capewell to make metres, he was very much a defensive forward for us. I suspect they are testing to see whether or not Salmon can fill a similar role.
 
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Just rewatched it and added some thoughts. Overall I thought we were impressive against a very ordinary opposition. Hoping to see May and Leniu this week to put the final pieces of the round 1 puzzle together.

1. Charlie STAINES - Looked ok, has definitely put on some size which hopefully means he won’t get pushed over the sideline all the time like last year. Won’t be threatening Edwards’ fullback position unless he can find a passing game though. Hopefully we get to see him on the wing next week and if he plays well let him start there for round
2. Sunia TURUVA - looked good, pretty raw but also plenty of potential. Could be decent cover with some more development.
3. Izack TAGO - slow start but warmed to the task and was arguably best on ground by the end. Deserves the round 1 spot. I did wonder why he got such large minutes though, we are already low on outside backs so why risk him for so long?
4. Robert JENNINGS - showed some glimpses. That try in the corner where he outmuscled 4 defenders was unreal. It showed what he can offer that Charlie doesn’t. I actually thought he was one of the few that had a dig over the origin period last year but then he had that one diabolical game. A serviceable option B or C if Staines doesn’t fire.
5. Tom JENKINS - disappointed to not see more of him given the hype but was pretty unremarkable before having his head taken off by Trindall (BTW how effing bad was Trindall!?)
6. Kurt FALLS - unbelievable kicking for goal and decent game overall but should be behind SOS in the pecking order
7. Sean O'SULLIVAN - Best on ground by a fair margin in the first half, he was in everything. More than happy for him to start round 1 if Nathan isn’t ready. Very impressed. It’s a pity he’s not more versatile because he looked too good for NSW Cup
8. Eddie BLACKER - disappointing, looks a plodder. Doubt he’ll make our first grade side anytime soon on the strength of that showing
9. Mitch KENNY - not bad, not amazing, typical Kenny I guess. Needs to improve if he wants to be our number 1 hooker in 2023
10. Matt EISENHUTH - never been a fan and this game didn’t change that
11. Jaeman SALMON - not sure why everyone is so high on him. Looked slow and nothing special.
12. Chris SMITH - unremarkable, expected more from a guy with a genuine chance of grabbing a bench spot.
13. J'maine HOPGOOD - thought he played reasonably well overall but needs to get the errors out of his game. Deserves a round 1 bench spot.

14. Mavrik GEYER - similar to my assessment of Turuva. Loads of raw talent but needs time to develop. Attack was great, defence was suspect.
15. Lindsay SMITH - Didn’t play
16. Liam HENRY - Didn’t really notice him
17. Hohepa PURU - looked good but I think his twin was slightly more impressive
18. Niwhai PURU - thought he had a nice game, the try at the end was pretty special
19. Logan DICKSON - great try and an amazing catch almost off the ground to score it. Didn’t notice him too much outside of that but didn’t get many minutes
20. Matt STIMSON - Didn’t really notice him
21. William FAKATOUIMAFI - Pretty impressive. I probably noticed him more than others due to the name.
22. Alec SUSINO - Decent. His head must be made of brick to take Talakai out like that
23. Brad FEARNLEY - Really, really impressive. Bent the line on every run and won himself a lot fans, me included
 
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Iamback

Referee
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20,297
Just rewatched it and added some thoughts. Overall I thought we were impressive against a very ordinary opposition. Hoping to see May and Leniu this week to put the final pieces of the round 1 puzzle together.

1. Charlie STAINES - Looked ok, has definitely put on some size which hopefully means he won’t get pushed over the sideline all the time like last year. Won’t be threatening Edwards’ fullback position unless he can find a passing game though. Hopefully we get to see him on the wing next week and if he plays well let him start there for round
2. Sunia TURUVA - looked good, pretty raw but also plenty of potential. Could be decent cover with some more development.
3. Izack TAGO - slow start but warmed to the task and was arguably best on ground by the end. Deserves the round 1 spot. I did wonder why he got such large minutes though, we are already low on outside backs so why risk him for so long?
4. Robert JENNINGS - showed some glimpses. That try in the corner where he outmuscled 4 defenders was unreal. It showed what he can offer that Charlie doesn’t. I actually thought he was one of the few that had a dig over the origin period last year but then he had that one diabolical game. A serviceable option B or C if Staines doesn’t fire.
5. Tom JENKINS - disappointed to not see more of him given the hype but was pretty unremarkable before having his head taken off by Trindall (BTW how effing bad was Trindall!?)
6. Kurt FALLS - unbelievable kicking for goal and decent game overall but should be behind SOS in the pecking order
7. Sean O'SULLIVAN - Best on ground by a fair margin in the first half, he was in everything. More than happy for him to start round 1 if Nathan isn’t ready. Very impressed. It’s a pity he’s not more versatile because he looked too good for NSW Cup
8. Eddie BLACKER - disappointing, looks a plodder. Doubt he’ll make our first grade side anytime soon on the strength of that showing
9. Mitch KENNY - not bad, not amazing, typical Kenny I guess. Needs to improve if he wants to be our number 1 hooker in 2023
10. Matt EISENHUTH - never been a fan and this game didn’t change that
11. Jaeman SALMON - not sure why everyone is so high on him. Looked slow and nothing special.
12. Chris SMITH - unremarkable, expected more from a guy with a genuine chance of grabbing a bench spot.
13. J'maine HOPGOOD - thought he played reasonably well overall but needs to get the errors out of his game. Deserves a round 1 bench spot.

14. Mavrik GEYER - similar to my assessment of Turuva. Loads of raw talent but needs time to develop. Attack was great, defence was suspect.
15. Lindsay SMITH - Didn’t play
16. Liam HENRY - Didn’t really notice him
17. Hohepa PURU - looked good but I think his twin was slightly more impressive
18. Niwhai PURU - thought he had a nice game, the try at the end was pretty special
19. Logan DICKSON - great try and an amazing catch almost off the ground to score it. Didn’t notice him too much outside of that but didn’t get many minutes
20. Matt STIMSON - Didn’t really notice him
21. William FAKATOUIMAFI - Pretty impressive. I probably noticed him more than others due to the name.
22. Alec SUSINO - Decent. His head must be made of brick to take Talakai out like that
23. Brad FEARNLEY - Really, really impressive. Bent the line on every run and won himself a lot fans, me included

Good post.

On Tago's minutes. He was always going to start in the centres.

I have doubts as to whether he plays every minute this year.

Was a lock/prop in SG Ball. Shortened season

Came back despite being SG Ball age jumped straight to NSW Cup.

By the Dubbo game he was in the back row. A few games off the bench got 40 mins v Sharks. Rest was minimal minutes.

While he is a huge talent he needs minutes. Hopefully another long stint this week too
 

Original Name

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1,413
It was only one game, and wasn't against an FG side, but Salmon was tackling really well yesterday. He didn't seem to be having any issues with defence. We never relied on Capewell to make metres, he was very much a defensive forward for us. I suspect they are testing to see whether or not Salmon can fill a similar role.
Thought there was one run where he wanted nothing to do with Talakai which is fair tbh. But you want your second rower body guarding your half from those kind of destructive guys not intimidated by them. That's what I meant by size and strength maybe being an issue sometimes.

But in general I don't think it's much of a problem particularly because I don't think he'll play much there in first grade and might be more of a utility. Certainly has the speed to defend there and do his job if he makes the right decisions.

I don't see why it's speed that is a deal breaker for a guy who's main strength in the context of playing in the forwards will be his skill level and unlocking players outside him. Like when Sharks won the prem how quick was Wade Graham running whenever he got the ball? Much slower than Salmon is now.
 
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Original Name

Juniors
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1,413
The thing about Chris Smith is he'll play a 6.5 game in reggies, a 6.5 in first grade against a bottom team then a 6.5 game against a team like the Storm.

That's the type of player he is.
 
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Panfa

Juniors
Messages
1,265
Of the new brigade in the forwards fearnley geyer and Henry were impressive.Disapointed in blacker eisenhuth and smith they all had a great opportunity to push there claim for a 1st grade bench spot and failed.Sorenson and leniu are a lock for 14 and 15 it's between lindsay Smith hopgood salmon Kenny for the other 2 spots at the moment.The guy I expect to be a bench player this yr when he overcomes his injury is new boy Preston riki,I've seen his highlights reel and he is big tall strong runs good lines and can score a try perfect replacement for kikau.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Of the new brigade in the forwards fearnley geyer and Henry were impressive.Disapointed in blacker eisenhuth and smith they all had a great opportunity to push there claim for a 1st grade bench spot and failed.Sorenson and leniu are a lock for 14 and 15 it's between lindsay Smith hopgood salmon Kenny for the other 2 spots at the moment.The guy I expect to be a bench player this yr when he overcomes his injury is new boy Preston riki,I've seen his highlights reel and he is big tall strong runs good lines and can score a try perfect replacement for kikau.

Riki wont be available till mid season unfortunately, some kind of hip injury
 

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Sorry this is late. Wrote like half of this down then accident deleted it..
Next week will be the good guide given it will be the same bench role.

Defence he was good. Won't be needed to make 35 tackles or won't get long minutes though.

I haven't watched the replay but at the ground. Henry was great off less minutes and good numbers both sides of the ball.
Hopgood started against their best pack. Things are a little different running and tackling guys who good enough to be coming off that Sharks bench fighting for spots in their 17 compared to players definitely playing reggies and u/21's boys. Braden Hamlin-Uele was their best forward as you'd expect and he came off after 20 when it the score was 0-0, Talakai was probably their second best when on and he came off soon after for a HIA then we ran way with it. Liam Henry's probably above their some of their reggies and u/20s boys but let's see how he goes when he's a starting forward in Cup consistently. That 7/10 consistency is what the main thing players need in first grade bar genetic freaks of the game and Hopgood plays like that.

In terms of impact with props off the bench in a vacuum I thought Bradley Fearnley had the most impact tbh, even if he probably played longer against worse players. It felt like he bringing the most direct impact.
We are likely talking about the 4th bench game. So very limited minutes you want the player who makes the best impact per minute.

That is where things like penalties conceded, errors, metres per run come into.
I'll rewatch it but I think his one error was just a guy hitting him in the perfect spot to hit the ball, can't do anything about that. These things happen, errors get forced by good teams and good tackling. It's the unforced errors that coaches really have a problem with. I mean I'm sure Tago made 2 but no one cares because it's Tago. I think his other one was due to a bad pass that Falls that needed to be a little more accurate and softer.

On Metres gained alone.

Henry and Geyer are jersey players had more metres than Hopgood
It's different positions. You can't compare running metres to a lock forward doing some ball playing to a prop/second rower running out the back or off that ball playing. And especially for second row. Guyer was running at a small half who defended poorly. It's much, much easier running at halves in comparison to the middle and the gap narrows against the good team. He's not going to easily brush off a feeble Jarome Hughes tackle and run 24 metres to score against a team like the Storm.

The lock forward's thing is to naturally lock up the middle of the defence to a bit more tackling and passing and a bit less running. Guys like Taumuolo are just props that play at lock. And coming on and tackling his heart out in the middle means Api will have to do less which means he'll have more gas in the tank. You can look at the reverse in how much creativity has gone Jake Trobivich's game now that Api's gone and his hooker's work rate isn't that great compared to others which leaves more defensive work for him.

Also from what I remembered watching him Henry(?) struggled forward for post contact metres whereas Hopgood didn't bother with that and and just found his front straight away to play the ball as quick as possible for his team mates on the next tackle like JFH does with all of his runs.
As did Susino who is a Ron Massey Cup player

Not only did those 3 gain more metres.
All had a tackle bust to Hopgood's 0
And had an error each
If you get absolutely pumped by one guy and another dude lands on you it's a tackle bust. If a prop has a fair couple I'd take notice that there's something there but one is too small a sample size to sound like a difference in of itself without watching it to see what he did specifically.

I think in this post you're underestimating winning the ruck in defence in relation to metres conceded. If you put in an awesome kick chase and trap a guy on his 18 and belt him near the corner and slow the ptb down like Hopgood did to the FB. They're probably making 30 more metres on that set without taking risks. If someone normal does it and just forms a line at the 24th metre mark, nearer to the middle of the field and makes a normal tackle that's not terrible but is a serviceable play the ball it's a massive difference in metres conceded.
 
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