Tribalism

[big boppa eel]

first of all great topic.

I am one of those that believe for the game to survive and prosper it will have to walk away from most of its tradition. If the Sydney clubs want to maintain their own identity may i suggest they go back and compete in the local Sydney comp.
For the game to move forward we need at least 10 clubs as strong as Brisbane. There is only a finite amount of sponsorship dollars available in Qld and NSW so we have to expand Nationally to bring more sponsors into play.
We need to do away with the salary cap as it is a nonsense. All it does is reward the poor performers and nobble the strong. Look at Man United they were the richest most powerfull Premier League club in
England. The Premier League had no salary cap so the remaining clubs had to catch up or perrish. Guess what! they caught up.

And the game will move forward how?, once people and districts lose their team and identities.

 

[Ziggy the God]

Some of these rivalries are more like a backyard spat than anything with passion.
And it depends on the teams reputation in recent seasons, not the past 50 years. I'd rather watch a Melbourne v Manly match up than say Dogs v Parra

Come on down to the Round 1 clash between us and the Chooks.

See how you go after that champ.

 

[Loudstrat]

For the game to move forward we need at least 10 clubs as strong as Brisbane.

10 clubs?

Brisbane cover a League mad area of roughly 2 million people.

The only possible way of getting more sides equal to that is to have only 2 teamns representing Sydney. There is no other way of getting a side representing 2 million League fans within a 100km raduis of anywhere in Australia. Globally, the only other way is to have a combined Lancashire side playing out of Leeds, Bradford or St Helens.

So, at best you can only have a global comp of 4 teams.

To get another 6 such teams, you would need the following.

Team 5: Convert Melbourne from AFL to League. Impossible to that extent
Teams 6-8: Convert London to a League mad city - have 3 teams. The Harequins barely average a 3000k League home crowd now.

Team 9: Convert Manchester to League.

Team 10: Convert Paris to LEague.

To do that, you need to basically wipe Manchester United off the map - this one soccer club has a budget arguably bigger than League globally. You would also need to erase AFL off the map, and wipe Soccer out of London - thereby reducing Chelsea and Arsenal to rubble - and out of France, who won the second last Soccer World Cup.

This is, obviously, utter nonsence.

And this has to happen BEFORE League can advance?

 

[Lockyer4President!]

10 clubs?

Brisbane cover a League mad area of roughly 2 million people.

The only possible way of getting more sides equal to that is to have only 2 teamns representing Sydney. There is no other way of getting a side representing 2 million League fans within a 100km raduis of anywhere in Australia. Globally, the only other way is to have a combined Lancashire side playing out of Leeds, Bradford or St Helens.

So, at best you can only have a global comp of 4 teams.

To get another 6 such teams, you would need the following.

Team 5: Convert Melbourne from AFL to League. Impossible to that extent
Teams 6-8: Convert London to a League mad city - have 3 teams. The Harequins barely average a 3000k League home crowd now.

Team 9: Convert Manchester to League.

Team 10: Convert Paris to LEague.

To do that, you need to basically wipe Manchester United off the map - this one soccer club has a budget arguably bigger than League globally. You would also need to erase AFL off the map, and wipe Soccer out of London - thereby reducing Chelsea and Arsenal to rubble - and out of France, who won the second last Soccer World Cup.

This is, obviously, utter nonsence.

And this has to happen BEFORE League can advance?

I'm assuming he's talking more about the income/profits and general support for each team, not the amount of people that the team covers.

ie: Brisbane is the only NRL team to average over 30,000 people while AFL has over half of their teams averaging over 30,000 people. IMO there's absolutely no reason why more NRL teams can't join the Broncos. Granted the Broncos basically have a whole city to themselves but the Sydney clubs have the away fans from up to 9 other teams to draw upon for every game.

 

[Loudstrat]

League doesn't need to average 30 000 people, although admittedly it would be nice.

If League DID need to average 30k, kiss goodbye all the regional teams.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

League doesn't need to average 30 000 people, although admittedly it would be nice.

If League DID need to average 30k, kiss goodbye all the regional teams.

Yeah I don't think averaging 30K will ever be a must but it would certainly help lessen the club's reliance on the Leagues clubs and dividends from the tv contract.


I think if most clubs get around 300,000 punters through the gates each season then they'll be doing quite well. Brisbane get over 400,000 through at an average of 33-34K. So I guess an average in the low-mid 20K's should be what most clubs ought to be working towards.

Just to put that into perspective, the only NRL clubs to pull over 200,000 a season are the three QLD clubs and Newie. Every other team in the comp is between 130K (Penrith) and 196K (Wests).

 

[adamkungl]

Sydney rivalries usually have far bigger crowds than other games as far as I can tell. Roosters v Souths/Bulldogs in particular bring big crowds. Stainers v Shirescum is always a big match, I try to get to that just for the atmosphere. Melbourne v Manly has nothing on the big Sydney rivalries. It takes more than 2 years to build a rivalry. Get back to me in 10, even 5 years, see if they still give a sh*t about each other.

 

[bobmar28]

once you punt most of the sydney teams then it just becomes a game with no passion and it'll turn into just turn up, watch a game, clap for a try, eat a meat pie and go home ... perth v adelaide, gosford vs wellington, brisbane vs melbourne, north queensland vs png ... lol where's the rivalry? where's the connection? where's the history? ... easts have been in the comp from day dot and the dogs from what, 1920 odd or whatever? ... it took until the early 2000s for us two to form any sort of rivalry and they're within a bee's dick of each other in the same city so good luck getting something out of adelaide, perth, central coast, wellington and whoever else

people talking about sydney clubs being bland and killing the game have never been to an easts v souths game, or dogs v parra or dragons v sharks etc...

also funny how alot of these people talking sh*t of rugby league in sydney are from perth, melbourne and queensland ... be thankful you've got a team and shut the f**k up and in some cases be thankful you had a team and have one in the lower grades

I've been to a Dogs v Eels game and there was nothing special about it. If Sydney had one team and the Broncos came to town, well that would be something else.

 

[Dogs Of War]

I've been to a Dogs v Eels game and there was nothing special about it. If Sydney had one team and the Broncos came to town, well that would be something else.

I agree with that. It's different if Parra are doing well, then you want to see the game against them, because it's a test of how your club is doing, as well as being a match you can drag your Parra supporting mates to, to make the game more enjoyable.

If the Broncos were bottom of the ladder, then I am sure you wouldn't feel as inclined to attend that match.

Personally I feel Sydney needs to lose at least one club, if not 2. Though relocation would be the preferred method for this to occur (or mergers of teams, maybe a carrot the NRL should be offering to have Sydney clubs consider this option).

 

[Jubileeboy]

Yeah I don't think averaging 30K will ever be a must but it would certainly help lessen the club's reliance on the Leagues clubs and dividends from the tv contract.


I think if most clubs get around 300,000 punters through the gates each season then they'll be doing quite well. Brisbane get over 400,000 through at an average of 33-34K. So I guess an average in the low-mid 20K's should be what most clubs ought to be working towards.

Just to put that into perspective, the only NRL clubs to pull over 200,000 a season are the three QLD clubs and Newie. Every other team in the comp is between 130K (Penrith) and 196K (Wests).

The Dragons help Brisbane, Titans and Melbourne achieve great crowds each year.
We have Supporter Clubs based in both Qld and Melbourne. The game this year verse Broncos at Suncorp was a huge crowd as was the game against the Titans at Skilled. Not sure of the crowd figures though, just making the point that the Dragons draw good away crowds as well but it is only counted as home crowds...for obvious reasons.
Cheers

 

[Knightmare]

Well put Miller. Unfortunately some on this forum from outside Sydney don't (and never will) get it.

I see your point. Even with Newcastle, I would say our 3 biggest rivals are Manly, Easts and Brisbane and all of those have to do with club culture, not geography. With Manly and Easts it's the financially battling, blue collar steel city team up against the star-studded silvertails from Manly and Bondi Junction with their friends in high places. With the Broncos it's the arrogant colt from the north who entered the comp the same year as us with a State of Origin quality line-up and backing from bottomless pockets, while we were a poor club with a tough team of unknowns.

But for all that, we have no rivalry which could be called a "derby" which is what would make the Central Coast Bears such a great match-up. The Jets-Mariners derby in the A-League is just a glimpse of what the NRL could have from the same two regions. (Be weird for me sitting with one group of fans in the summer and the 'enemy' mob in the winter but!)

 

[Knightmare]

wipe Manchester United off the map

...reducing Chelsea and Arsenal to rubble -
This is, obviously, utter nonsence.

Not at all. I love the sound of this idea! ;-)

 

[Loudstrat]

I've been to a Dogs v Eels game and there was nothing special about it. If Sydney had one team and the Broncos came to town, well that would be something else.

If you had a brain, that would be something else.

If that ONE Sydney team was Manly - would you be a massive fan?

 

[bobmar28]

If you had a brain, that would be something else.

If that ONE Sydney team was Manly - would you be a massive fan?

Manly the only team in Sydney and the heartland (Western suburbs) would have no team?

If Sydney had only one team it would not be based in or named Manly you dropkick.

 

[Loudstrat]

Manly the only team in Sydney and the heartland (Western suburbs) would have no team?

If Sydney had only one team it would not be based in or named Manly you dropkick.

LOL. Sports with one Sydney team. AFL, Soccer, Union. All play at Moore Park, East Sydney.

So now you'd have one Sydney league team playing out of Penrith. Wow, what vision.

You grubber.

 

[Perth Red]

Surely one Sydney team would need to play out of ANZ to fit in its 80,000 fans every week?

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

If there was only one Sydney team then Rugby League would effectively die in this country and AFL would be handed the biggest state in the country.

 

[Perth Red]

There won't be, but there may be less than now.

 

[Loudstrat]

If there was only one Sydney team then Rugby League would effectively die in this country and AFL would be handed the biggest state in the country.

Oh no. One Sydney team and one Perth team is all we need. The code would be massive and all our problems would be solved forever. Just ask Perth Red.

 

[KHunt]

we're talking loudddddddddddstrat