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JJ

Immortal
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32,706
Yesterday after Warner got out someone here posted (and since deleted it) that we are "into the tail already".

Next minute...highest ever 4th wicket partnership.
What a good prediction that was.

One of my better ones - for the record, I did not delete it, a mod put it, with many others, in the troll thread :roll:
 

JJ

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I think the decision to declare with Voges closing in on 300 was poor, at best.

Where's the harm in going out for another 15 - 20 overs?

Personal milestones should be irrelevant - but one always wonders whether the captain would do the same if he was the one at the crease (NOT comment on Smith, just a general one)

Aust was scoring at such a rate, and the Windies are so fragile that time wasn't an issue, strange
 

wittyfan

Referee
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29,999
Heartless decision by Smith to declare, Voges will probably never get that close to 300 again! :(
 
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4,604
Personal milestones should be irrelevant - but one always wonders whether the captain would do the same if he was the one at the crease (NOT comment on Smith, just a general one)

Aust was scoring at such a rate, and the Windies are so fragile that time wasn't an issue, strange

Brian Lara put personal milestones ahead of the team when he was Windies captain. Him chasing the 400 cost his team the game.
 

JJ

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Brian Lara put personal milestones ahead of the team when he was Windies captain. Him chasing the 400 cost his team the game.

He's not the only one, quite a few captains have - both their own milestones, and those of others.

In this situation, Smith declares he gets criticised, he doesn't he gets criticised... But they have time up their sleeve
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
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8,014
Brian Lara put personal milestones ahead of the team when he was Windies captain. Him chasing the 400 cost his team the game.

No it didn't.

This is ridiculous statement.

Windies declared on on 751 (202 overs). That is less than half the match in time.

They bowled England out in 99 overs for 285. Job well done.

Of courser they enforced the follow on. England batted 137 overs to get to 422 for 5 and presumably that finished early, that is 438 overs bowled out of an expected 450 - West Indies batted for less of them.

If West Indies had declared on 700, England had already forced them to bat again. Now you can say, declare earlier and bat a second time to refresh the bowlers, but that is a risk of giving up the advantage of enforcing the follow on. It means the bowlers must worry about runs in the last innings a little at the very least. It makes a loss far more likely. It also means that the team batting second is not as tired when they have their first bat. Not enforcing the follow on is one theory to cricket, it does not make Lara selfish or responsible for his team not winning when taking a match strategy of batting once only.

The reality is Collins, Edwards, Collymore, Best and Hinds are not to bowling what Vaughan, Flintoff, Trescothick, Hussein and Butcher were to batting.

137 - 149 overs available to bowl a side out in the last day and a half. That aint Lara's fault. The bowlers never had to worry about runs being scored, all they had to do was get wickets.

Lara gave his bowlers that was down 3-0 in a 4 test series (due mostly to its batting not firing) every chance to win the game. If he declared on 500, England would have been in a position to declare well ahead after its second innings, set the West Indies a target and bowl West Indies out on the last day. England would have been in the box seat. Lara batted England winning out of the game. He did not cost West Indies the chance at winning.
 
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JJ

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Interesting thread this one, seems to me the definition of trolling must have changed
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
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He's not the only one, quite a few captains have - both their own milestones, and those of others.

In this situation, Smith declares he gets criticised, he doesn't he gets criticised... But they have time up their sleeve

I blame the commentator experts. When a side has batted a team out of the innings and bat is dominating ball, the next thing for commentators to discuss after 450 has been posted is the declaration. Suddenly all the former players and captains turn into mavericks with their declare now philosphy.

Think of Perth against New Zealand just this year, and the likes of Taylor and Chappelli calling for a declaration at 450. If they had done so NZ would have gained a 174 run first innings lead and more time to get the win; the match suddenly looks very different. If a team can bat first, and force the other team to bat last, they must give that a lot of thought.
 
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undertaker

Coach
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11,023
Ganguly allowing Tendulkar to bat on and get his 241 not out and 80-90 something not out in Steve Waughs farewell test cost India their best ever chance of winning a test series in Australia. To this day, no subcontinent team has ever won a series in Australia
 

JJ

Immortal
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Atherton gave Hick a warning, didn't he? Hick was going so slow... Man he was a terrific player at first class level
 

undertaker

Coach
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11,023
Flopdulkar was the epitome of selfishness, not Lara. Flopdulkar could only dream of playing a match-winning innings under pressure like Laras 153 not out in 1999 (which was rated the 2nd best test innings of all time by Wisden, behind Bradmans 270). Give me a Dravid or Laxman any day of the week over Flopdulkar
 

undertaker

Coach
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11,023
Lyon bowling well with the strong breeze coming off the Derwent River

And just as I type, another wicket to Lyon!
 
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4,604
Interesting thread this one, seems to me the definition of trolling must have changed

Talking cricket in the cricket thread, that's a paddlin'.

images
 

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