Try from the play the ball?

[Harold Bishop]

Just looking around youtube and found this from the 1996 semi-final between Manly and the Roosters, in the video Fittler kicks the ball forward off from the play the ball and scores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdZeuX0gIF8
Was this tactic used often back in the day? Anyone know if/when the rules were changed which meant you couldn't score this way?

 

['The Snake' Brett Stewart]

LOL funny you bring this up. I remember one in origin when Mark Coyne went to play the ball, accidently stepped on it, it went forward and he jumped on the ball...it was awarded a try. NSW players were all confused as to what happened.

These days I think its illegal to play the ball forward as it constitutes as a knock on.

 

[Timmah]

I believe that rule went out the door around the time of Super League... being able to tap from dummy half if there are no markers square is no longer allowed... not sure exactly when.

 

[jono]

Ray Price was a chief exponent back in the late '70s

 

[Loudstrat]

Great tactic. Banned from memory the same time as the contested ruck - where the marker could rake for the ball. Benny Elias was the best exponent of that I ever saw.

I also remember one Eel, may have been Paul Cariage, who got flipped over in a tackle and was terribly disoriented. He got up and face the wrong way, with the markers at his back. Excited - he quickly tapped forward and ran the length of the field for a heroes try, except the fullback he ran past was wearing the same jersey!

 

[krudmonk]

What an odd sight.

 

[adamkungl]

Great tactic. Banned from memory the same time as the contested ruck - where the marker could rake for the ball. Benny Elias was the best exponent of that I ever saw.

I also remember one Eel, may have been Paul Cariage, who got flipped over in a tackle and was terribly disoriented. He got up and face the wrong way, with the markers at his back. Excited - he quickly tapped forward and ran the length of the field for a heroes try, except the fullback he ran past was wearing the same jersey!

:lol: Classic. Yeah twas a good tactic back in the day, I think I even remember the Fittler try mentioned. If there was no markers, the tackled player could tap (or kick?) the ball iirc.

 

[RL1908]

I believe that rule went out the door around the time of Super League... being able to tap from dummy half if there are no markers square is no longer allowed... not sure exactly when.

Was adopted in 1997 - from then on the ball could only be played backwards, even if there was no marker (or markers not square).

The original concept of the play-the-ball was that after a tackle or "held", the ball could only be brought into play again by use of the foot on the ball (and the ball had to be on the ground) - it could be kicked in any direction, and once it had cleared the ruck, it could be picked up, or in the case of Fittler (and Price and many others) kicked into the in-goal and then grounded for a try.

In other words, once the ball was placed/dropped onto the ground, it was "live" and it could be kicked by either the man playing the ball, or the marker, and in any direction by either of them.

In theory, (this is a good one for the trivia nuts!) it was also legal at a play-the-ball to drop kick the ball for a field goal - a very tough ask!

I found one article in the 1950s claiming Messenger did kick a field goal in the act of "playing the ball", but I've never found any direct evidence of him peforming such a deed...and I think it highly unlikely.

 

[adamkungl]

Was adopted in 1997 - from then on the ball could only be played backwards, even if there was no marker (or markers not square).

The original concept of the play-the-ball was that after a tackle or "held", the ball could only be brought into play again by use of the foot on the ball (and the ball had to be on the ground) - it could be kicked in any direction, and once it had cleared the ruck, it could be picked up, or in the case of Fittler (and Price and many others) kicked into the in-goal and then grounded for a try.

In other words, once the ball was placed/dropped onto the ground, it was "live" and it could be kicked by either the man playing the ball, or the marker, and in any direction by either of them.

In theory, (this is a good one for the trivia nuts!) it was also legal at a play-the-ball to drop kick the ball for a field goal - a very tough ask!

I found one article in the 1950s claiming Messenger did kick a field goal in the act of "playing the ball", but I've never found any direct evidence of him peforming such a deed...and I think it highly unlikely.

Hmm. in the case of a play the ball-field goal, would you have to place the ball on the ground and kick it, or would drop kicking it be legal?

 

[Redsfan]

League would be so much better if they brought this rule back.

 

[RL1908]

Hmm. in the case of a play the ball-field goal, would you have to place the ball on the ground and kick it, or would drop kicking it be legal?

The play-the-ball rule provided (actually, still does) that the ball was to be placed on the ground OR dropped on the ground. In the latter case, dropping the ball and then kicking it the very instant it rises back up from the ground, would constitute a drop kick, and therefore a legal drop goal if it could be kicked over the cross-bar.

All of which goes to raise the question - if dropping the ball is a knock-on, how the heck is a drop kick ever legal? How was a play-the-ball legal if you dropped the ball?

The answer is that dropping the ball downwards (even accidentially) is not dropping it forwards, and therefore is not a knock-forward....the play-the-ball rule (drop the ball to the ground) and the drop goal definition both provide evidence that merely dropping the ball isn't actually a knock-on, it is a drop downwards. And if you see games from the late 1960s and earlier, that is exactly how the referees and players (and fans for that matter) treated it.

 

[RL1908]

For those keen students of the game who want to go into this a bit deeper, there is a long paper I wrote here on the evolution of the play-the-ball and the defensive distances rules (presently the 10m rule):
http://www.RL1908.com/History/play-the-ball.htm

And if you want a real eye-opener as to what the play-the-ball once was, here is a link to a play-the-ball from a 1922 match at the SCG (ignore that this page says it is a RU game....the play-the-ball rule of the time tricked the NF&SA researchers into presuming it was RU)...and enjoy the Maori war cry too!
http://australianscreen.com.au/titles/australasian-gazette-maoris/clip1/

 

[adamkungl]

The play-the-ball rule provided (actually, still does) that the ball was to be placed on the ground OR dropped on the ground. In the latter case, dropping the ball and then kicking it the very instant it rises back up from the ground, would constitute a drop kick, and therefore a legal drop goal if it could be kicked over the cross-bar.

All of which goes to raise the question - if dropping the ball is a knock-on, how the heck is a drop kick ever legal? How was a play-the-ball legal if you dropped the ball?

The answer is that dropping the ball downwards (even accidentially) is not dropping it forwards, and therefore is not a knock-forward....the play-the-ball rule (drop the ball to the ground) and the drop goal definition both provide evidence that merely dropping the ball isn't actually a knock-on, it is a drop downwards. And if you see games from the late 1960s and earlier, that is exactly how the referees and players (and fans for that matter) treated it.

So, currently, must the ball be placed on the ground before playing the ball? I'd love to see contested rucks and scrums back...f**king SL

 

[effnic]

League would be so much better if they brought this rule back.

lol why? Its probably the gayest way to score a try.

 

[RL1908]

So, currently, must the ball be placed on the ground before playing the ball?

If anyone dared to drop the ball today in the play-the-ball, they would be done for a knock-on.

I'd love to see contested rucks and scrums back...f**king SL

The path towards no contest in scrums and play-the-ball was underway well before SL was even mooted.

 

[Nuke]

Since they got rid of this rule, I have always wanted to see it brought back.
I was watching an old game (black and white recording) a while ago. It could have been a test match, but I think it was a Grand Final. Anyway, at just about every play-the-ball, the marker would kick at the ball (usually striking it). Admittedly, that would get monotonous very quickly, but I'm still a fan of the marker raking it back.

As for when they got rid of the rule, here is a part of an e-mail I received earlier this year from the NRL when I sent them one asking about just this:

The rule was introduced for the start of the 1997 season (ARL)
“There is to be no striking in the play the ball and the ball must be played backwards”.

 

[innsaneink]

Was effective when the tackle was near touch too, the marker could attempt to kick it out and if successful force a scrum which were contests back then...

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Great tactic. Banned from memory the same time as the contested ruck - where the marker could rake for the ball. Benny Elias was the best exponent of that I ever saw.

I also remember one Eel, may have been Paul Cariage, who got flipped over in a tackle and was terribly disoriented. He got up and face the wrong way, with the markers at his back. Excited - he quickly tapped forward and ran the length of the field for a heroes try, except the fullback he ran past was wearing the same jersey!

Wasn't that Mark Laurie in 1990 at the WACA? i'm pretty sure it was...

 

[roughyedspud]

So, currently, must the ball be placed on the ground before playing the ball? I'd love to see contested rucks and scrums back...f**king SL

the rule changes had nothing to do with super league..

and you can contest a scrum if you want..samoa did it to lebanon in the world cup qualifiers,lebanons head and feed so samoa just steamrolled them off the ball...as score directly from it too...

 

[bazza]

Ray Price was a chief exponent back in the late '70s

I remember in the 80s, every Saturday afternoon on ABC when St George were playing, Grahame Wynn would come on with 10 minutes to go and score a try in the same way