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Union- does it do it for ya

Criswell

Juniors
Messages
156
Saying Union is a true International game is like saying Australia is a gridiron playing nation.

It's all smoke and Mirrors.

90 teams tried to make the cup. How bad are the other 70?????:lol: :lol:
 

Terminator

First Grade
Messages
6,303
I dont really mind it actually, its more of a team game than League is in some ways, but of course League is my first love and always will be.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,636
fosie said:
wat's the point of watching the world cup when you know who's gonna win and they end up thrashing and i mean thrashing the other team?? except the South Africa vs England one..........i think :oops:
well if you want to look at it that way, in League, Australia, with a full team is so far in front of any other nation that its not funny. In Union, you get blowouts in the group stages because obviously some nations better than other, but generally after the group stages its so competitive, unlike the league world cup. In Union there are about 5 teams that can win it, Australia, NZ, ENgland, Sth Africa and France, in league, only 3 teams can win it, AUST, NZ and GB, and realistically you would put you mortgage on Australia winning it. In Union the blowouts also seem alot worse because of 5 point tries and 3 point penalty goals.
I love union, always have, and playing wise, I think its even better than league. There is alot more skill involved in Union. In league positions are a joke, no offence but its true. Any halfback can realistically play halfback, 5/8th and hooker, and any 2nd rower could easily play prop of lock. In Union, you won't find so much flexibility because players specialise in a particular facet of the game. I love union because everyone knows their role. The props know they have to clean out and scrummage, locks know they have to win the line outs, loose forwards know they have to get to the breakdown, hookers know they have to throw the line outs, scrum halfs know they have to deliver the ball from the ruck. I also like the fact that in Union you can score team tries with the rolling maul. I also think Union requires greater fitness.
 

Razor

Coach
Messages
10,077
aqua_duck said:
In Union the blowouts also seem alot worse because of 5 point tries and 3 point penalty goals.

But the 3-point penalty goals also make teams take a penalty goal more often rather than go for the try.

And 15-players means that there should be less points scored, because there are more defenders to tackle them. Look at 7s Union and League - high scores because there are less players.
 

The_Ben

Juniors
Messages
844
Razor said:
And 15-players means that there should be less points scored, because there are more defenders to tackle them.

Eh?? come again? Let's just do some figures here. In league you have 2 to 3 tacklers. If you have 3 tacklers, one needs to retire the 10 mtrs whilst the other 2 are markers. That means there should always be 11 players in the defensive lineup. Being 13 players on the field taking away the two at dummy half.

In union, you have 5 to 6 (being the minimum) in a ruck or maul. Taking 5 as the absolute minimum in a ruck or maul that leaves 10 in the defensive lineup. The reason you have more tacklers in the ruck or maul is that there is the chance to turn the ball over so you end up as the attacking team.

So league has 11 in the defensive lineup as compared to union which has 10 or possibly less players in the defence. Just because there's 15 per team doesn't mean more in defence, you have to look at the how those 15 are used.
 
Messages
2,729
How much of a spectacle was your England/South Africa match, Ben? One try to nil? A soccer score. And was that try put on by sparkling attacking play?

And Duckie, tell a league fan the Union boys have greater fitness levels the next time you see one of those fat props walk to scrum in such a state that the referee calls time out for the entire match.
 

The_Ben

Juniors
Messages
844
However for every dour game, there is always a sparkling game to counter it. Japan V USA was a great example. USA had the kick to win the match after the full time siren went.

Same goes for league, I've watched some pretty boring games in my life. However they have been countered by such matches as ther 97 GF.
 
Messages
2,729
The only problem for Union is that the close and exciting matches are either few and far between, or, between teams that don't inspire anything. Niether of the teams taking part in the one point game are capable of winning it all, are they?

I noticed this week that O'Niell got so desperate for his game to get more publicity that he took a swipe at League's ashes tour for being on at the same time as his pet project which is once again pushing the World Cup back a spot in the sports news. He should spend as much time improving the quality of his game to attract more attention rather than try to bring down other events. Especially since last week's league result made a total dick out of him and his game.
 

socksie

Juniors
Messages
1,839
terminator007 said:
I dont really mind it actually, its more of a team game than League is in some ways, but of course League is my first love and always will be.

yeah but only cuz they all gang up with each other and head-butt the other team's heads

i just confused myself
 

warriors

Juniors
Messages
90
People stamping on eachother falling on top of eachother how can you call that a team try its just a load of lard arses rolling about the pitch, PATHETIC!!!!
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,636
Well in Union stomping is banned so I don't know what your point is?
In Union the rolling Maul is great in my opinion, it creates more space with defenders trying to stop the rolling maul. I also love seeing the tries from a scrum, that happens because there are real scrums in Union. BTW DMC, I'll stick by my statement that Union requires greater fitness than league. For one the props in Union don't get replaced every 10 minutes. Secondly in league, you see your team mate making a run you say "go buddy, bravo", in Union you have to run after him and clean out, and then you have to get up and clean out again two phases later. As for closeness, well if you want closeness don't watch the opening rounds of the WC, watch the super 12, 6 nations, try nations and those sorts of games, I mean how many times have you seen Bledisloe cup games decided in the final few minutes, and btw if you want to have a swipe at Intermnational Union, well what about league at an International level? Players don't even rate playing for their country, look how many players you have pulling out. In Union, most players will give their left testicle to play for the country, look at Tana Umaga, he's got a buggered knee and now he gets up every 2 hours in the middle of the night to ice it in an attempt to get back. As for Razors's comments, well mate I'd advise you to learn abit about the game before you make comments, for one in Union, the extra players which are the flankers, well their main role is to get to the breakdown, most of the top flankers in world rugby are rated solely because of their world at the breakdown, a guy like Richie McCaw is rated one of the top 3 players in world rugby, and he prides himself on his work at the breakdown, secondly the props have to clean out, thridly there is usually more than one man back, usually you have the fullback, fly half and sometimes the number 8 behind the line so logically that would leave a depleted defensive line. As for no trys been scored in a game, well thats because its a real mans game, its tough, its take no prisoners, its how league was back in the 70's and 80's when you use to get low scores, now you get high scores in league because half the players can't tackle to save their lives. In League Wendell was considered one of the best wingers defensively, in Union he's probably the worst winger defensively in the Wallabies squad.
I mean I love league, and I'll admit its a more exciting game, more action, but I love the tough stuff, the big defence, the big men battling at the scrum, in the maul, and the skill involved at the line out, the breakdown, hence why I love Union.
 
Messages
2,729
Wasn't there a 6 nations match-up last night, AD? What was the score there?

Criswell said:
Saying Union is a true International game is like saying Australia is a gridiron playing nation.

It's all smoke and Mirrors.

90 teams tried to make the cup. How bad are the other 70?????:lol: :lol:

A highly valid question considering the hype the likes of John O'Niell would like us to believe of his "International Game".

Namibia, flogged in yesterday's high standard of International Union 142 - 0 (How fit did Matt Dunning look, BTW?), defeated the highly fancied International standard side of Madagascar in their World Cup Qualifier. The Score...? 112 - 0.

Japan, another of the second or even third tier teams at the competitive World Cup of 2003 won their World Cup qualifier over Chinese Taipei by the International worthy scoreline of 155 - 3. They raked up 90 against South Korea as well.

When will the Wallabies be touring these lesser like nations considering the standard of these Union playing nations is so much higher than that of Leugue?
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
I can only comment on the Union as a very casual observer, I rarely watch the game. I have watched a few of the World cup games, and the odd club game on ABC TV. For me the overall turn off is the fact that It's just too slow. Some of the cup games have been interesting (by that I mean close) But some, (Last nights v Namibia)was a procession, it was so one sided it was boring, and I was embarased for Namibia, before you say but it was a learning thing for them let me say that is just what I felt. I mean you can say some of the cricket world cup games are very one sided, but at least in that you get the odd upset, or the weaker nation scores a few runs/takes a few wickets. Namibia last night never looked like doing anything, and that game is not an isolated case, in fact so far it's more the norm. The finals games no doubt will be better specticals, but for me the game will still be too slow, and punctuated by too many stoppages, and decided by too many penalty goals.
 

socksie

Juniors
Messages
1,839
i watched the aussie flogging of namibia and almost felt sorry for them

i dont mind watching union when im bored as hell, the aussies are whipping the other team, and i have coffee
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,636
Danish Moo Cow said:
Wasn't there a 6 nations match-up last night, AD? What was the score there?

Criswell said:
Saying Union is a true International game is like saying Australia is a gridiron playing nation.

It's all smoke and Mirrors.

90 teams tried to make the cup. How bad are the other 70?????:lol: :lol:

A highly valid question considering the hype the likes of John O'Niell would like us to believe of his "International Game".

Namibia, flogged in yesterday's high standard of International Union 142 - 0 (How fit did Matt Dunning look, BTW?), defeated the highly fancied International standard side of Madagascar in their World Cup Qualifier. The Score...? 112 - 0.

Japan, another of the second or even third tier teams at the competitive World Cup of 2003 won their World Cup qualifier over Chinese Taipei by the International worthy scoreline of 155 - 3. They raked up 90 against South Korea as well.

When will the Wallabies be touring these lesser like nations considering the standard of these Union playing nations is so much higher than that of Leugue?
Union probably isn't as strong as they make out but its certainly alot stronger than league Internationally. How good are coutries like Ireland, Argentina, South Africa, France at league?
 

Anonymous

Juniors
Messages
46
I have to admit that even though I outwardly detest Union, occasionally I enjoy and international involving Australia.

The major issue I have with it is that it is a set piece contest. From Scrums to linouts to rucks and mauls, everything seems far too structured. The thing that I love most about RL is that a great mind can do wonders on a football field. A player can take the ball in his hands and in a fraction of a second understand what is about to unfold. Offcourse that happens in Union as well, but not enough for my liking.

The backline moves used to be something of interest, they were adhoc and changeable, these days the ball is moved in concert with a set piece. When that set piece is read it is very annoying to watch great athletes get smashed because they don’t have the time or the intelligence inside them to put them into a gap. It is a hospitalpassathon.......

Penalty kicking is also very annoying.

I cannot watch grade rugby, I cannot watch super 12....which to me seems to be a competition for the benefit of Kiwi's and no one else. I can watch test match rugby as long as there is sufficient skill and endeavour out there to entertain.

The France v Fiji game was great football, and i thoroughly enjoyed it because it was fast open and totally not structured. However watching South Africa or England is akin to making me watch test match synchronised swimming.

As far as the 'World Cup' is concerned, it has about as much relevance as the RL Cup does....I mean Aus 147 Namibia 0. WTF? That was downright stupid.

As long as it isn’t AFL….and it has some skill I don’t mind.
 

The_Ben

Juniors
Messages
844
pando said:
....I mean Aus 147 Namibia 0. WTF? That was downright stupid.

Correction, it was only 142-0

But we won't mention Australia beating Russia 110-4 back in the Rugby League world cup in 2000 won't we?
 

Razor

Coach
Messages
10,077
The_Ben said:
But we won't mention Australia beating Russia 110-4 back in the Rugby League world cup in 2000 won't we?

The Rugby Union officials & media were saying after that match, that the scoreline proves the RLWC is a farce with hardly any competitive teams.

That was after a 106 point margin.

The Union had a 142 point margin, and if Rogers didn't miss so many kicks at goal it would have been over a 160 point margin. Yet the RU officials & media say this time that the match was a great event, and a great performance. Nothing about it being a farce.

No one is saying RL is a worldwide sport. Rugby Union does nothing but knock the big scorelines in RL, but completely ignore their own.
 

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