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Very interesting Re Souths Sponsership.

aarondoyle

Juniors
Messages
1,004
Iraq. AWB. Geeze the article is throwing names into the mix which most people would rather avoid being associated with in any way.
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
47,790
Dear oh dear this gets shadier by the minute.

Now it looks as though Finnin was the reason they had anything at all to do with those Austrade shows mentioned in the earlier reports... and still no real information about who they are or what they do.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
In all truth this may well be the most interesting topic disscussed on this site not concerning Football, although we are only rapt in this issue due the bunnies sponsorship most here have made valid arguments for both sides.

Firstly I would like to take the oppertunity to state that most Football clubs throughout the world are something of a money pit, or a tax write off to say it bluntly. Large corporations poor money into there advertising in order to give themselve tax brakes.

Fortunatley or unfortunatley football is a benefactor weather that club being Chelsea F.C. or the South Sydney R.L.F.C. both of which don't expect to make profits of any great sum but both hope to keep the books out of the red.

Sponsors will appear and disapear regarding clubs and there on filed form, fortunatley for Souths they have shown Zero form and have still attracted interest, In all honesty $3M AUS is a lot to a football club which hasn't achieved much in over a decade and would it be safe to say have not won 100 matches since 1990?

Football clubs do however care for there image as far as the fans are concerned as it is in most parts of the world if no one is wathing, then no one is paying. This brings me to the point football clubs need money to survive hence they only meet the sponsors in the front office, not down the mine shaft as so to say. If corporations look slick and shiny in the top end of town and the money is seen to be available, the clubs simply don't care for the rest.
 

BrisVegas

Juniors
Messages
892
Crikey.com.au have done 2 reports on FirePower over the last couple of days:

http://www.crikey.com.au/Business/20070110-Something-for-ASIC-and-ACCC-to-investigate-the-multi-million-dollar-Firepower-mysteries.html

Something for ASIC and ACCC to investigate: the multi-million dollar Firepower mysteries

Date: Wednesday, 10 January 2007

Michael Pascoe writes:

There’s this Perth bloke who sells a little pill that you throw in your petrol tank and magically and massively increase your power and fuel economy as well as saving the planet by lowering emissions. And the pills are only one of several utterly amazing fuel system "products" he’s flogging. It’s only a matter of opinion, but I reckon they make Brock’s magnet look credible.


And there are three much bigger mysteries than the $1.50-a-pop pills:


1. Where’s the money really coming from for Tim Johnston to splash many millions around on ownership of the Sydney Kings basketball team and sponsorship of the Western Force and Tongan rugby union sides, Russell Crowe’s Souths league team and Superbike, V8 Supercars and Porsche Carrera Cup racing?

2. How much, if any, due diligence did the above sporting organisations do before getting into bed with Tim Johnston’s Firepower mob? And:

3. What sort of interest might the ACCC be conducting into Firepower’s fuel additive claims and ASIC into Firepower’s corporate structure and fund raising?


The SMH’s Gerard Ryle has done a great job on a big story that’s been sitting under everyone’s nose since Firepower starting throwing the millions around on sports sponsorship last year, but, as usual, the rest of the media hasn’t bothered to follow it. There is no shortage of on-going angles, but "it wasn’t invented here".


If you’ve been around a while, you could form opinions about the smell of Firepower just from its website. There’s a certain lack of real information, a definite shortage of scientific support – endorsements by a few Greek taxi drivers wouldn’t pass Mythbusters – and more than a little oddity about the east European connections and the minimal and limited Australian distribution.


And then you could follow the invitation to fill out an investor inquiry form. It seems some people think Firepower is heading for a London listing and a killing for investors. I somehow think it might be more at home on the Romanian exchange.


Ryle uncovers plenty of other oddities, including a most intriguing similarity between Firepower’s little pills and modus operandi and that of a Kiwi company, a credulous little story in the Bulletin reporting support by Peter Beattie, Firepower’s use of Austrade to try to build its credibility and a lack of findable company records.


Thing is, if I had a potion that could do half of what Firepower wants you to believe its pills can, I would be off to a couple of credible organisations, maybe the University of NSW and NRMA, to conduct credible tests, publish the results and sit back counting the many credible billions that would be thrown at me by the world’s biggest and most credible companies.


But not the mysterious Tim Johnston. That’s apparently fine with the ACCC, ASIC, the NBL, the NRL, the ARU, Peter Beattie, Austrade and the rest of Australia’s media.


Never mind. It’s January. Most of us are still asleep. Some of us seem always to be asleep.
http://www.crikey.com.au/Business/20070111-Firepower-just-the-latest-in-a-long-line-of-alleged-fuel-improvers.html

Firepower – just the latest in a long line of alleged fuel improvers

Date: Thursday, 11 January 2007

Michael Pascoe writes:


Firepower, major sports sponsor, recipient of federal government export grants and purveyor of magic petrol pills and diesel potions, is holding a media briefing this morning. Unfortunately it’s right on Crikey’s deadline, but we’ll see what they have to say.

In the meantime, a wise and loyal subscriber provides this useful link to gadgets website, Dan's Data. Half way down the page Dan does a nice job answering a reader’s letter about Firepower and linking in turn to Tony’s Guide to Fuel Saving Gadgets – a revhead’s more technical guide to various scams, falsehoods and economies-of-truth.


Dan and Tony both know a lot more about the science of the internal combustion engine than I do, but what emerges is an opinion that Firepower is only the latest in a long line of outfits that claim to do incredible things to improve fuel economy but never prove it. Gee, I wonder why...

The Dan’s Data letter came from a fella whose father had invested in Firepower. He "has been told that the Federal government is apparently interested in using their products".


And that sounds suspiciously like the sort of claim a salesman flogging shares in an unlikely fuel gizmo outfit might make.


Firepower makes many strange claims though. Its science-lite website could give the impression its sponsorship of a V8 Supercar team would somehow involves a technical relationship with Holden:


Tasman Motorsport is considered Holden’s rising star and is supported by General Motors Holden accordingly. Firepower is pleased to be working with a partner of this calibre.

The relationship also includes a research and development plan which will see Firepower continue its rigorous testing and technical development of products in a high performance environment.



Er, no. In fact, Holden has demanded that no claim of a technical relationship with it be made because there isn’t any. So it goes. In the general scheme of Firepower’s many claims, it is small beer.


So, off to the media briefing which is to be conducted by Firepower CEO John Finnin. As Gerard Ryle reports in today’s SMH, Finnin worked at Austrade until last June. Back in September 2003 when he met the owners of a Jordanian trucking firm called Alia, he was Austrade’s director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa.


Firepower seems to have a good knowledge of the Austrade ropes. According to a Ryle piece yesterday, it has obtained nearly $400,000 in export grants from the Federal Government through Austrade.

Late breaking news: Just out of a most bemusing Firepower media conference, I can report CEO John Finnin doesn’t know who invented the magic potions, won’t or can’t name any UK investment banks they’re allegedly talking to, or any of the claimed major Australian customers using it, or the brokers selling Firepower’s unlisted shares.

He does say South Sydney rugby league club co-owner Peter Holmes a Court is “very enthused about our product” but Holmes a Court is not a shareholder.

Finnin claims the incredible pills give him about an extra twenty per cent fuel economy in his Maserati Quattroporte – which he said isn’t a company car.

The secret ingredients of the Firepower pill are two precious to risk patenting – but the company gets them knocked up by a subcontractor in New Zealand. Funnily enough, the literally incredible formula cannot be reverse-engineered, says Finnin.

There’s also a mystery about boss Tim Johnstone’s involvement with colourful Perth millionaire Warren Anderson but the biggest surprise of all is that Finnin claims Shell, Volvo and TUV have all tested Firepower products and he will make the results public next week. We await with interest but without holding any breath.
I hope South Sydney got a down payment on the Firepower sponsorship deal, this company is sounding like the sort that could go bust leaving shareholders and other creditors in a lurch. Finding a new sponsor mid-season after most companies have allocated their advertising budget would be hard enough in the crowded Sydney market, if the Rabbitohs fail to significantly improve on field it could be even harder, not to mention the damage it could do to the club being associated with a dubious company.
 

LeagueLegend

Juniors
Messages
572
BrisVegas said:
Finding a new sponsor mid-season after most companies have allocated their advertising budget would be hard enough in the crowded Sydney market, if the Rabbitohs fail to significantly improve on field .

That's a fair comment but one which doesn't necessarily ring true.

I'm astounded by the people and organisations that sponsor Souths. The last year or two have seen big amounts of money thrown their way but for what?? A team that gets great exposure standing still under the posts while their oppositions converts the try. I'm not trying to be a Souths basher or anything but it defies logic in most cases.

People are willing to hand over money to a team that has not performed at a satisfactory level in the NRL since re-admission let alone prior to that yes they won all those premierships but they have nothing in the modern game to show for it). They are one of the most talked about clubs, making the papers or tv for anything that happens there. I just wish I knew what the forumla is to getting sponsors money but delivering so little on the field - there is perhaps my answer, on field they get nothing but off field they are the most talked about.

Go figure.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,882
It screams of another WA company called Westpoint which went under last year - they were big in sports sponsorship (Dick Johnson's V8 team for one) as well...
 

BrisVegas

Juniors
Messages
892
So Firepower Operations is little more than a shell company for Firepower Holdings Group.

Does anyone know which subsidiary is sponsoring Souths? TPS FirePower? Firepower Operations? Firepower Holdings Group?

Could this be a classic case of a "Pump and Dump"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump
"Pump and dump" (aka "Stock Dump" and "Hype and Dump Manipulation") is a term used to describe a form of financial fraud that typically involves artificially inflating the price of a stock or other security through promotion, in order to sell at the inflated price (creating artificial demand). This practice is illegal under securities law, yet it is particularly common. While fraudsters in the past relied on cold calls, the emergence of the Internet offered a cheaper and easier way of reaching large numbers of potential investors.

The process

A company's web site may feature a glowing press release about its financial health or some new product or innovation. Newsletters that purport to offer unbiased recommendations may suddenly tout the company as the latest "hot" stock. Messages in chat rooms and bulletin board postings—or, more often, spam—may urge readers to buy the stock quickly.

Unwitting investors purchase the stock in droves, creating high demand and pumping up the price. When the persons behind the scheme sell their shares (at what will soon become the peak) and stop promoting the stock, the price plummets, and other investors lose their money.

Stocks manipulated in this manner

Fraudsters frequently use this ploy with small, thinly traded companies—known as "penny stocks," and generally traded on the over-the-counter bulletin boards (such as Pink Sheets), rather than on the larger exchanges like the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ—because it is easier to manipulate a stock when there is little or no information available about the company. [1] The same principle applies to the London Stock Exchange, where target companies are typically small companies quoted on AIM or OFEX.

....

Organized crime involvement

Pump and dump stock schemes have become major sources of income for organized crime. [4] Mob figures from each of the Five Families of the New York mafia, as well as the New Jersey mob, have become involved in Mafia stock schemes.

.....
 

Choppies

Coach
Messages
15,295
More questions than answers as Firepower talks

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...firepower-talks/2007/01/11/1168105115870.html

That article raises more questions that it answers. For instance they say they have millions of people who use the product and we have millions knocking down the fdoor to use it yet we do not turn a profit and have yet to do so?!?!
99 percent of our business will be done overseas?!?! Sorry for a small Australian company I find it puzzling that you would not try your product here first and then go overseas
They have lab results in Texas they say. Well show us then you frauds!

Also makes you wonder about Peter Holmes a Court and Crowe as the owners. They must have had other legitimate sponsers come to them surely. Why did they go with this scheister?

The way it is going IMO is Firepower don't have the money they promised Souths and Souths will be very lucky to see the tiniest part of it. Would also not surprise me if this company goes belly up before kick off.
 

Lowdown

Juniors
Messages
1,062
If this all goes tits up - this will be a major blunder for Holmes a Court - whose main strength, according to him, was his business acumen and his ability to run Souths like a proper business.

Could someone get me a better example of irony, if this Firepower is just a sham...
 

sooperdooper

First Grade
Messages
5,545
whilst firepower and all these articles dont add up im sure if this whoe deal does do a belly flop souths will have no problems finding major sponsors. With people like holmes a court and Russell Crowe on board they will never struggle both of there names combined is worth the money a sponsor will pay as every time russell crowe gets mentions so does his beloved south sydney as does holmes a court

if i were a bunnies fan i would be over the moon this is a mssive change in there recent history and looks only to get better!
 

mark123

Juniors
Messages
828
Hi guys

It sounds like you all DONT know the half of it. This has little to do with Souths and A LOT to do with the companies of the world, a bit of dark history, and scams.

All Souths did was sign a sponsorship with a company. They basically sat down and had some talks, looked at then signed some documents. Thats it. They had no idea about other stuff going on.

Let me start by saying i have done a bit of research into the whole thing. I didnt need much more than google.com.

[SIZE=-1]www.fuelsaving.info/

If you goto the above site, you will come across a well respected mechanical engineer who has worked on engines all his life basically. Not only does he give fuel saving tips concerning how you drive your car to save fuel, he also dispels myths and rumours about products that people "think" save them fuel.

He covers such things as car modifications, different technologies, and fuel saving devices. Note, being a long time mechanical engineers (read car scientist), this guys knows how fuel systems and cars work. He knows that fuel saving devices DONT WORK and the people selling them are running SCAMS.

Its interesting then, that when you go into fuel saving devices, this guy is actually really serious about it all, because he has received legal threats by people determined to make a buck from these scams. The souths sponsor is a scammer. Fuel tablets do not work. Read the sections below.


Now, in regards to the company set up to market this fuel tablet.....

if you check on [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]www.fuelsaving.info/ you will come across a link the man gives you to go into another site and check out MLM (multi level marketing). MLM is the new-age name for pyramid schemes.

Fuel tablets have been sold by many people and the most recent case of fraud was in the states where a company marketed these things to a LOT of unsuspecting people using a pyramid scheme. People bought the product and for a time it was really successful to the buisnessmen. They recruited thousands of people to help sell the product and made a lot of money, setting up a hierarchy structure in the process...from company founder all the way down the chain to bottom-level salesman working for a local manger. They signed up 50,000 people to help sell it in the pyramid scheme (to the unsuspecting people it all looked legal). The sale price per tablet was $1.50. It was about only 2 months later complaints started to flood in to the lower level people on the chain.....fuel economy was actually getting worse people claimed!

And it was. For a while the economy was better. Though it could have been people fooling themselves, which in psycology is very common. But very soon the tablets began to have a detrimental effect on the car. Admist all the complaints, a govenment authority was brought in, and the company in question was asked to provide scientific evidence that their product worked. They used delaying tactics and smoke-screens to hide from all the trouble. But by then they had sold a lot of products. The company had to be disbanded and they are being taken to court.

Turns out, the tablets are exactly the same composition as mothballs! Turns out, the key chemical in mothballs may, depending on how you drive, have a benificial effect on fuel to begin with, because the chemical is known to clean deposits off of engine parts innitially. So to a driver it may make them think the car is running better if only to those whose cars were in poor condition for a long time....however, the mothballs create more problems than they fix because pretty soon the other componants in the mothball tablet RE-CREATE deposits on all the engine parts that were just cleaned!!

Its a classic pyramid scam. Other products like whynns spitfire plus and all of those you buy from the servo - they usually dont work. Read them carefully and you will see the only way people can sell them is because they never state they work. Its a law of advertising. They "may" work. But they dont.

If you want to clean your engine, run it on shell v power for a month. Then put it back to normal premium or regular unleaded.


So back to Souths.....yeah who knows if the company will be around long enough to give them the money....hopefully souths get the money early. Thats all you can hope for. Because they are selling a fraudulent product, and I dont know how they sell it exactly or if they sell it at all, but let me tell you, they wont be saying to you if the product works. Perhaps, like that american company [who sold the product to home-salesmen who then sold it to the public in the pyramid scheme] they will be actually telling you "that dont come to us seeking help if it doesnt work as we are not telling you it works, we are just saying its a great product and our own viewings has suggested it may work, but we dont know, so we are not telling you at all if it works or not".

They were very clever and knew how to work their way in between the cracks in the law system, and actually planned the scam for years beforehand.

Souths better get the money early. A company set up like the group of companies that are involved with the souths sponsor could go belly up at any time.....they dont actually sell anything.

Like the guy who said when you deal with front office its all you see, and you dont see the mine where the gold is meant to be......souths and business in general just dont know.

You can run a business based on reputation....and if you happen to put that reputation out there yourself though synthetic means.....well, it doesnt matter. Only the law can touch you, and even then, it has to catch up.


[/SIZE]
 

Bluebag

Juniors
Messages
1,574
All negotiations are done in good faith, remember the telco that sposored the bulldogs and never paid. It does happen.

The bottom line is that if they are a bit suss Souths brand will be devalued as they have said nothing about the relationship todate and I think they need to say something one way or another. If all is good then say it by saying nothingthey are endorsing them and if it goes pair shaped then they will have to share in the brand devaluation.

It is not as easy as one thinks to get companies to throw in huge dollars and want vale for money and a good reputation, they would always get a sponsor but not the money they may be getting now whatever that is.
 
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