Vuna or Ah Van?

[Manu Vatuvei]

Did we keep the right one?

A few months back everyone was pretty confident we'd made a good call, but now Manu is out and our three-quarters are looking very impotent.

Last year I was very impressed by Paddy. He was only 18, but he seemed so composed. He looked like a footballer, unlike so many other players we have brought up who were older in years, but more raw in skills and attitude. Paddy wasn't huge or fast, but he looked like someone who belonged, who knew what he was doing.

This year he somehow seems to have gone backwards. His lack of size and speed, which didn't seem such a problem last year, now seem quite glaring deficiencies when you see the mistakes he is making.

Vuna is also a mistake waiting to happen, but he carries a threat with ball in hand.

So....will Ah Van ever amount to anything? He had pretty big raps on him last year. Personally, I would like to think that the errors he has been making are uncharacteristic. The biggest attributes Paddy has are skill and solidity, if he can't catch the ball then he really offers nothing.

Is he just too slow? Is he too skinny, or not strong enough? Are his hands really that bad? Is wing his best position? Can he actually make inroads on attack?

Will Vuna REALLY be as good as he has occasionally threatened to be, anyway?

(imo Ah Van will prove to be the better player in the long run. He will change position, possibly to centre, then maybe to fullback, and become a club stalwart. That's my optimistic analysis anyway).

 

[JB]

I prefer Vuna. The one that can actually score tries.

Paddy just doesn't threaten enough for mine. He's not big or strong enough to play the Vatuvei role, yet he doesn't have the pace of a Crockett or Vuna to play the speedy finisher. Just comes up short in either department. Maybe centre is where his future may lie.

 

[Skinner]

I prefer Vuna. The one that can actually score tries.

But what about the Vuna that doesn't. The Vuna who can be a dreadful show pony.
The Vuna that limps around like a goose after he's made a blunder.

At times Vuna can be an awesome player......at other times, he can be unbelievably
bad.

Apart from last Friday night....I haven't seen Paddy make too many mistakes, and
a show pony he is not.

They are both young and only time will tell which becomes more successful.

 

[JB]

But what about the Vuna that doesn't. The Vuna who can be a dreadful show pony.
The Vuna that limps around like a goose after he's made a blunder.

At times Vuna can be an awesome player......at other times, he can be unbelievably
bad.

Apart from last Friday night....I haven't seen Paddy make too many mistakes, and
a show pony he is not.

They are both young and only time will tell which becomes more successful.

Agreed. We definitely saw this when Vuna 1st went over to the Knights. But gradualy he seems to be getting that crap out of his game. You can see he's learning with experience. After another full season next year, he could be a very,very good winger.
This is what sort of seperates the 2 for me. Vuna has the natrual attributes, speed,size and strength that Paddy lacks and will never have. So has more potential.

 

[Martli]

One area where I think we've both agreed, TH, was that paddy should be a centre. He's small, but hopefully he can put on a bit of wieght in the off-season.

He's played one bad game, and to be fair, that game was a big step above your average NRL game. I think he'll end out being pretty good for us in the long run.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Ah Van is listed at 183cm and 91kg, but then again I have major question marks over the heights and weights at the Warriors site.

For mine he is 91kg at absolute max, really he only looks maybe 85kg, but he is actually deceptively tall. At least 6 foot/183cm, maybe 6'1''. At the moment, I think most people get the impression that he lacks a bit of strength and leg drive. I see no reason why he can't gain a little strength as the height and frame are there for him to play at around, maybe, 95kg?

Thing is, a centre needs to have attacking ability as well. Would Ah Van really cut it there? Simply put, if he individually isn't fast enough or elusive enough to break the line, he won't trouble too many sides even if he has all the skills. It's sort of a sad fact that even a really skilled and well-rounded player needs to have the basic physical ability to get through the defensive line before any of his skills are worth anything.

As cynical as it sounds coming from a pretentious wannabe football purist such as myself, gym work and sprint training should be at the top of Paddy's list over the off-season. Often just a subtle change in size/speed can make all the difference. A good example imo is Sam Perrett, who I thought was absolutely hopeless when he came into first grade- probably a good footballer, but looked too small and too pedestrian on attack. These days Perrett carries a bit more muscle and as a result, he is able to threaten the defensive line just enough to allow his general skill and football nous to come to the fore.

Gosh, bit of a rant there.

 

[Jono078]

I used to rate Ah Van and Taulapapa ahead of Vuna in the little time I saw them in FG.

IMO the thing Taulapapa and Ah Van dont have is probably the physical attribute like Vuna which is really needed to be a top player really.

As things stand right now id say Ah Van is the most reliable and fairly solid player. Vuna can make the big plays and has a physical presence. He's had to adjust to week in week out FG, different centre pairings and halves.

Taulapapa has looked brilliant but too many errors and brain snaps by him.

Still a wait and see, but I guess you could say atleast you got 1 out of Ah Van and Vuna.

 

[Martli]

Ah Van is listed at 183cm and 91kg, but then again I have major question marks over the heights and weights at the Warriors site.

My theory is that they weigh them at the start of the off-season when they've put on a few. I think there's quite a few up there that are a little heavier than they look.

 

[Blaze]

neither. Ah Van just doesn't seem to have quite enough to be a first grader.

But I like the comparison with Perrett so maybe there is hope for him.

 

[NIGHTMARE-HITTER]

When I first saw Paddy he was a blood great great center in Bartercard cup. I mean this kid was ripping it up. He goes to the warriors they throw him on the wing and Budda Bing Budda Bang turn him into a very very average winger.

I dont know if I really rate him at all now. How can a young guy be such a skeleton of his previous self ?

I would of kept Vuna. Cant believe they got Crockett over Vuna. Vuna has it all over Crockett. I just cant understand the logic Vuna would of made glaring mistakes thats why they went for Crockett. After watching the Knights I think Vuna has gone from strength to strength. While Crockett has proved to be very average.

I would of prefered Vuna in a heartbeat over Ah VAN, MARTIN , CROCKETT and BYRNE against the Cowboys this weekend.

Infact I would of taken Solomona over these guys as well.

 

[Waitakere Warrior Fan]

As a winger I'd rather have Vuna. I like Ah Van and he seems like a smart, solid player for the most part, but I just don't think he has the speed or the size to play on the wing. I wouldn't mind seeing him at centre as well but would have some question marks there too for much the same reasons.

I'm quite happy that he's at the club though, he's a good solid player who seems to try hard and rarely lets the team down with great composure for a young bloke. I can't see him as a frontline first grade winger or centre, but he'd make a pretty good back-up. From what I've seen I'd say his best position would seem to be as a fullback though and since McKinnon seems a bit injury/judiciary prone I imagine he'll get a few more chances to impress there.

 

[Sanchez]

ah van just needs a pep up like manu got

 

[mean]

But what about the Vuna that doesn't. The Vuna who can be a dreadful show pony.
The Vuna that limps around like a goose after he's made a blunder.

At times Vuna can be an awesome player......at other times, he can be unbelievably
bad.

Apart from last Friday night....I haven't seen Paddy make too many mistakes, and
a show pony he is not.

They are both young and only time will tell which becomes more successful.

I was of the same opinion of Vuna through his exploits on and off the field. Maybe being away from his peers and his family may deflate his fat head that I've known him to have. He has however scored some decent tries at the Knights, but I'm still wary of his suspect defence. I'm not going to make comnparisons with Paddy as I really haven't analysed his game, but Cooper would definitely be quicker. Vuna is the type of kid that needs a slap around the ears every now and then for grounding.

 

[Skinner]

Vuna is the type of kid that needs a slap around the ears every now and then for grounding.

In a nut shell mate, in a nut shell.

 

[Mixmasterreece]

Speed
Vuna > Ah Van

Skill
Vuna > Ah Van

Footwork
Vuna > Ah Van

Potential
Vuna = Ah Van

Defence
Ah Van > Vuna

Reliability
Ah Van > Vuna

Rugby League 'Brains'
Ah Van > Vuna

Attitude
Ah Van > Vuna

 

[mean]

Speed
Vuna > Ah Van

Skill
Vuna > Ah Van

Footwork
Vuna > Ah Van

Potential
Vuna = Ah Van

Defence
Ah Van > Vuna

Reliability
Ah Van > Vuna

Rugby League 'Brains'
Ah Van > Vuna

Attitude
Ah Van > Vuna

Can't argue with that.

 

[macavity]

I think Vuna is really thriving under "schoolteacher" Smith.

He seems to have settled in here at Newcastle very well, and looks to be learning the game all over again, starting with the basics.

He has scored some tries for us that he really had no right to score.

Still prone to over-reading in defence, and getting caught isolated.

I think an off-season with Smithy calling the shots, coupled with the competition for spots next year with a few coming in or back from injury, and we should see the best of him.

Put it this way - for my team, I think Vuna is a better fit as we are lacking that flair and speed.

Ah Van is probably the better "footballing" base to work from, whereas Vuna is the better athlete.

hope they both come on strong, I have a soft spot for you guys (except when you play us)

 

[aqua_duck]

IMO bias aside I think Vuna was let go too early by the warriors. I mean a bloke who made his 1st grade debut at 17, he obviously had talent and he was gone before his 20th birthday.

Vuna is a better athlete, he's got the things you can't coach, speed, size, flair, etc. Ah Van seems very mature for his age. Ah Van will probably turn out to be the type who you can pencil in everyweek, who you know won't let you down, where as vuna will be the bloke who'll leave you speechless for one reason or another

 

[keeney]

I think the change was good for Vuna, but for all his good sides, he pushes the issue too much, looking for miracle plays. I'm glad it was our last game because after scoring that try from his own kick I could see him trying it more and more if we had more to play. As it is he does it too much already. His defense can be cringeworthy at times too.

I'm pleased with the progress he's made though. I do think Smith is good for him. Hopefully he continues his improvement next year, but I won't be overly surprised if he doesn't.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

IMO bias aside I think Vuna was let go too early by the warriors. I mean a bloke who made his 1st grade debut at 17, he obviously had talent and he was gone before his 20th birthday.

I don't entirely agree. I mean, he made his FG debut at 17 years 47 days or something, so I agree he must've been a quite extraordinary talent. However, in 2005 he played no first-grade, in 2006 he played I think either 1 or 2 games, and in 2007 given the advantage of playing in Premier League to stake his claim, he basically....didn't stake his claim.

Whilst still young, he'd been given a full 3 years by the club since his FG debut, and obviously hadn't shown enough to suggest he could be a first grade player. I think it was fair enough to let him go, and it's really a bonus for him that he's still so young and can have a full career despite some lost years.