WA BEARS

[MugaB]

Yeah "Nominate a licence fee" is bananas.

But discreetly filling it in as $0 and expecting it to get the green light is way more bananas.

Hahahahahaha

 

[Perth Red]

Clearly the decision is being made now for a start in the new TV rights window or there abouts.

Why wouldn’t they decide to make a decision 2 and bit years out?

All this needs to be worked out before the actual tv negotiations start because that’s the bargaining power that will be used. These negotiations with networks and media require tangible items to use. A new club with all their ducks in a row, ready to start operations is as tangible of an item as it comes.

Dolphins and Titans have so many differences in their models and how the discussion to bring them in came to be it’ll take a giant post to highlight it all. You know this so don’t ask silly questions.

Raises a good point. The club were being talked about to come in 2027. New tv deal won’t start until 2028. Thats a loss of around $19mill to the nrl as they will have to pay year 1 grant without any revenue generated from the extra club (presuming there’s no renegotiation on final year of deal), maybe the $20mill is so the club basically has to pay it’s own way year 1?


you were the one who said the other clubs would get less with new clubs diluting the bowl. Now you’re saying the new clubs need to be there in order to raise more tv revenue, so clubs will get more out of that?

fundamentally comes down to: is a new club worth spending $50mill on. Smarter business people than us will know the answer to that one.

 

[MugaB]

Agree, Dophins far less risky but did not have to pay a licence fee. Maybe what they bought to the table was enough, but given most clubs are self centred, it would mean that the clubs were happy to share their revenue pie without the Dolphins having to pay a fee for it. Maybe clubs wised up and now want new clubs to pay a licence fee. Dolphins did however still have to provide a rolling 10m bank guarantee for 5 years.

Anyway, for the sport of rugby league, let's hope it turns out for the best. I think this whole process could have been run a whole lot better.

They wanted the dolphins to pay a fee aswell, but by the time they came up with the idea to do so, the tender process had finalised, and PVL said no..
Again the arlc don't care about the licence fee, but they know the clubs really want it, so they want the bidders to at least make efforts to want it...
Basically "what do you think an NRL licence is worth? ....Cumins answered with SFA

 

[RedVee]

Hopefully soon to be rectified ...

Willagee coming back ?

 

[Perth Red]

They wanted the dolphins to pay a fee aswell, but by the time they came up with the idea to do so, the tender process had finalised, and PVL said no..
Again the arlc don't care about the licence fee, but they know the clubs really want it, so they want the bidders to at least make efforts to want it...
Basically "what do you think an NRL licence is worth? ....Cumins answered with SFA

The consortium actually answered 'the $30mill investment that we are going to spend setting up the club to be a success and earn you more money'.

 

[MugaB]

He actually answered 'the $30mill investment that we are going to spend setting up the club to be a success and earn you more money'.

That doesn't go anywhere other than Perth, ..
What do the clubs receive? They built the pie, and you want a slice, what are you willing to pay for admission, all this we are going to set up good, so we can get YOU more money overall is BS, what will get the Cowboys or the Tigers or the Roosters any benefit from Perth being in the comp, in comparison to East Brisbane or a Christchurch franchise? Is the Answer: A cumins zero?
I'm not against Perth, or any other New franchise, but seriously to think the Clubs aren't going to ask for a licence fee is delusional on that WA consortiums part

 

[Perth Red]

That doesn't go anywhere other than Perth, ..
What do the clubs receive? They built the pie, and you want a slice, what are you willing to pay for admission, all this we are going to set up good, so we can get YOU more money overall is BS, what will get the Cowboys or the Tigers or the Roosters any benefit from Perth being in the comp, in comparison to East Brisbane or a Christchurch franchise? Is the Answer: A cumins zero?

A successful start up goes to making the NRl a better comp. That makes it more attractive to audeinces (ergo tv), game sponsors, fans etc. I suppose they could have said here's the $20mill bribe we'll only spend $10mill setting the club up and we could have a basket case. The game doesnt need another Wests or Titans, it needs another Dolphins or Melbourne.

Australian Tv, who pay over 90% of the media revenue arent interested in Christchurch. Sponsors want national reach. The Bears being involved adds a little sugar on top of a national competition. why do you think they have being pushing for Perth as club 18 lol.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

A small amount of sense interspersed with a lot of nonsense which I condense quite easily.

The whole idea of expansion is to make the pie bigger. Therefore the share of the pie remains the same. Imagine peanuts, that you had a family of four at Christmas. Your pie was cut into 4. Then you invited Bobby and Margaret from next door. You wouldn't serve the same sized pie, you'd make a bigger pie.

It's hard to make a bigger pie though when your ingredients is ridiculous model of a forced arrangement between a defunct failure of a club and a city at gun point in Perth.

Your idea is only true if the games increased returns are only in correlation to new teams. But it’s not, there’s more to tv revenue increases each single time they are negotiated than just new teams being added.

There’s other aspects where shared returns are slimmed in comparison to their potential maximised slice size as a result.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Your idea is only true if the games increased returns are only in correlation to new teams. But it’s not, there’s more to tv revenue increases each single time they are negotiated than just new teams being added.

There’s other aspects where shared returns are slimmed in comparison to their potential maximised slice size as a result.

You're adding an extra game. Extra content. If you don't envisage getting more money than there is no point expanding.

 

[Wb1234]

In my line of business it’s common practice for one business to ask another a question on a particular topic to get an understanding of where the other business is positioned on a particular topic and to further use that collected information in future correspondence.


The Swans and Lions initially struggled in their new territories for many years. Perhaps the absence from the competition will prevent that happening to the Bears in their new location.




Its strong among the wider Rugby League community. Not just the NRL community either.



What the…

The NRL is literally looking at adding 3 new clubs from 3 different locations. Of course they are open to bids from everyone (within reason).



The Dolphins bid has less than 0 to do with any current of future bid.



He’s not putting anything at risk.



I don’t see comments “straight from the horses mouth” as leaks. A leak is having a contact inside a media organisation and drip feeding them correct information without it being linked to them directly.




You mean like putting down $0 in a box?




Yeah, and even the AFL leaning branding rating of all AFL & NRL brands rates the Giants and Suns the worst two brands in the competitions.

Knocked it out of the park

 

[Wb1234]

They wanted the dolphins to pay a fee aswell, but by the time they came up with the idea to do so, the tender process had finalised, and PVL said no..
Again the arlc don't care about the licence fee, but they know the clubs really want it, so they want the bidders to at least make efforts to want it...
Basically "what do you think an NRL licence is worth? ....Cumins answered with SFA

Clubs have seen how succeful the dolphins are and want a kickback

Pvl knows how desperate the wa govt is and is doing his job to milk them for as much as possible

Let the wa govt / investors pay the bribe to the clubs rather than the arl wasting its own money

 

[Wb1234]

A successful start up goes to making the NRl a better comp. That makes it more attractive to audeinces (ergo tv), game sponsors, fans etc. I suppose they could have said here's the $20mill bribe we'll only spend $10mill setting the club up and we could have a basket case. The game doesnt need another Wests or Titans, it needs another Dolphins or Melbourne.

Australian Tv, who pay over 90% of the media revenue arent interested in Christchurch. Sponsors want national reach. The Bears being involved adds a little sugar on top of a national competition. why do you think they have being pushing for Perth as club 18 lol.

It’s funny how you assume the licensee fee will come out of the money required to set up the club

You just make up random bs and then run with it

 

[Wb1234]

The consortium actually answered 'the $30mill investment that we are going to spend setting up the club to be a success and earn you more money'.

You want a ride at the amusement park you pay the entry fee or stay outside whilst others do

 

[Perth Red]

Your idea is only true if the games increased returns are only in correlation to new teams. But it’s not, there’s more to tv revenue increases each single time they are negotiated than just new teams being added.

There’s other aspects where shared returns are slimmed in comparison to their potential maximised slice size as a result.

of course there are, but I guess the NRL have worked that out and decided that to get a lot more money they need more games to sell. Otherwise there wouldnt be a rush for 20 clubs from the 16 we had a couple of years ago. I very much doubt they would be adding new clubs if they didn't think it would return more money than it was going to cost them.

 

[Perth Red]

It’s funny how you assume the licensee fee will come out of the money required to set up the club

You just make up random bs and then run with it

If theres only so much money in the pot it has to come from somewhere, and $20million is no small change. The bid raised $30million investment to start the club up. To find another $20million now is no easy feat I wouldnt think, unless the WA govt is willing to cover it in some way that is palatable to them and the taxpayer.

Either that or the current investors need to pay more for their share of ownership, or have to accept diminished ownership % to bring in new investors. And then we are back to ' Is a new NRL club worth $50mill'?

 

[Perth Red]

You want a ride at the amusement park you pay the entry fee or stay outside whilst others do

Amusement parks dont expect me to buy them a new ride AND pay the admission fee.

 

[Matt_CBY]

Knocked it out of the park

Common knowledge collectioning/negotiation tactic.

When both business come to the table with good will it works out well for both sides.

 

[Wb1234]

If theres only so much money in the pot it has to come from somewhere, and $20million is no small change. The bid raised $30million investment to start the club up. To find another $20million now is no easy feat I wouldnt think, unless the WA govt is willing to cover it in some way that is palatable to them and the taxpayer.

Either that or the current investors need to pay more for their share of ownership, or have to accept diminished ownership % to bring in new investors. And then we are back to ' Is a new NRL club worth $50mill'?

The bid was rejected because the original investors weren’t sufficiently cashed up

New investors have been found who are

Ignoring investors associated with the bears was a stupid choice by Cummins

 

[Perth Red]

The bid was rejected because the original investors weren’t sufficiently cashed up

New investors have been found who are

Ignoring investors associated with the bears was a stupid choice by Cummins

Really? who are these investors with $50mill to burn on a new start up in the NRL? That depends, neither you nor I know if A) they actually exist B) what they were offering in return for the % equity they wanted C) if they offered more than just money (which at the time the consortium with its 6 investors felt they had enough of).
I get the Sydney Kings guys investment, he brings a wealth of successful sports business experience and sports media abilities to the table as well as $4mill. Investors aren't just about the money they are offering but also what value add to the business they can bring. I guess the B grade Bears comedian guy could have done some crowd warm ups before the game!

End of day investors know for themselves what they think a business is worth and what % of it they want for their investment. If you've got 6 investors putting in $30mill, then to get another $20mill you have to have those original investors effectively accept a significantly lower % of ownership and return for their $30mill investment.

So again it comes back to, is $50mill a good investment in a new start up NRL club? Considering 50% of Dragons was sold for $10mill and one of the biggest established NRL clubs was last year valued at $47mill you'd probably say not.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Agree, Dophins far less risky but did not have to pay a licence fee. Maybe what they bought to the table was enough, but given most clubs are self centred, it would mean that the clubs were happy to share their revenue pie without the Dolphins having to pay a fee for it. Maybe clubs wised up and now want new clubs to pay a licence fee. Dolphins did however still have to provide a rolling 10m bank guarantee for 5 years.

Anyway, for the sport of rugby league, let's hope it turns out for the best. I think this whole process could have been run a whole lot better.

That's probably a fair take on how it played out