Wales,ireland,scotland World Cup 08

[deluded pom?]

That's a problem with players playing for more then one country, not Australians playing for another country under heritage rules.

Does it matter that the Cayless brothers play for NZ despite being born in Australia? Is the NZ side held to ridicule in NZ because those players were born in Australia? Do people not go to international league games in NZ because the Cayless brothers are playing? Would less people go if the Cayless brothers were not in the side?

Of course not because the Cayless brothers, despite being born in Australia and playing in Australian (and now English) pro sides are committed and passionate about playing for NZ.

The issue is not players playing for minnow nations under the heritage rule, it's players turning out for minnow sides then playing for Australia or England or NZ when they become stars. Or established players turning out for minnow nations in a world cup then playing for a big three nation in a test match.

I'd have no problem in a young player of Tongan heritage or descendance based in the NRL or even born in Australia turns out for Tonga in the world cup, as long as that player committs to playing for Tonga, or Fiji, or Scotland, or Lebanon post the World Cup.

And the best way to do that is to continue to have regular scheduled world cups that will ensure meaningful matches (qualifiers and finals) for countries outside the big three. Having rugby league played at the Pacific games will also help to ensure meaningful matches for minor nations. Initiatives like this will encourage young players like say Sam Moa or Taniela Tuiaki to continue to play for Tonga or similar nations even in the become stars while playing for Wests Tigers. But I have no problem with them turning out for Tonga despite being based in Sydney.

I'm sure most of us agree, nail on head.

 

[carlnz]

Does it matter that the Cayless brothers play for NZ despite being born in Australia? Is the NZ side held to ridicule in NZ because those players were born in Australia? Do people not go to international league games in NZ because the Cayless brothers are playing? Would lmore people go if the Cayless brothers were not in the side?

Mate the Cayless bros are as Kiwi as me ....the only difference was their parents moved over to Aussie and had them year and i was born in NZ. But like them my parents are born and bread in NZ. Just because they are born there does not mean they are Australians.

It goes the same for all the Welsh and Irish players born in England...like you say if the are passionate to wear the jumper their should be no problems....but when they change their mind later on down the track thats when we have problems....

I think we have all said a meaningful International Season would stop players jumping ship.

 

[hutch]

Petero Ciconeceva ?

petero has never played for another country. he has only ever played for australia. lets hope he continues to do so.

 

[hutch]

That's a problem with players playing for more then one country, not Australians playing for another country under heritage rules.

Does it matter that the Cayless brothers play for NZ despite being born in Australia? Is the NZ side held to ridicule in NZ because those players were born in Australia? Do people not go to international league games in NZ because the Cayless brothers are playing? Would lmore people go if the Cayless brothers were not in the side?

Of course not because the Cayless brothers, despite being born in Australia and playing in Australian (and now English) pro sides are committed and passionate about playing for NZ.

The issue is not players playing for minnow nations under the heritage rule, it's players turning out for minnow sides then playing for Australia or England or NZ when they become stars. Or established players turning out for minnow nations in a world cup then playing for a big three nation in a test match.

I'd have no problem in a young player of Tongan heritage or descendance based in the NRL or even born in Australia turns out for Tonga in the world cup, as long as that player committs to playing for Tonga, or Fiji, or Scotland, or Lebanon post the World Cup.

And the best way to do that is to continue to have regular scheduled world cups that will ensure meaningful matches (qualifiers and finals) for countries outside the big three. Having rugby league played at the Pacific games will also help to ensure meaningful matches for minor nations. Initiatives like this will encourage young players like say Sam Moa or Taniela Tuiaki to continue to play for Tonga or similar nations even in the become stars while playing for Wests Tigers. But I have no problem with them turning out for Tonga despite being based in Sydney.

great post! players in a position to choose nations should be able to do so, but one would hope that when they do choose they then commit to that country. this goes both ways tho, some islanders choose aus, some choose a p.i. nation. if there are more meaningful matches for island nations then bigger name players may choose to commit to the island nations which should benefit international rl and the domestic scene in that particular country.

Mate the Cayless bros are as Kiwi as me ....the only difference was their parents moved over to Aussie and had them year and i was born in NZ. But like them my parents are born and bread in NZ. Just because they are born there does not mean they are Australians.

i went to school with the caylesses, and saw nathan play for the australian schoolboys. dont get me wrong, they are damn proud kiwis, and good on them, but they are also proud aussies. but as you said, if a player is passionate about the jumper, and they are eligabe of course, then good on them. just dont go jumping ship!

 

[Leek UK]

wales possible 17,what u think?
1 brett stewart - manly
2 mark lennon - manly
3 ben harris - bradford
4 james evans - bradford
5 danny williams - leeds
6 iestyn harris - bradford
7 lee briers - warrington
8 gareth carvell - hull
9 keiron cunningham - st helens
10 reece williams - cronulla
11 stuart jones- huddersfield
12 glen stewart - manly
13 john sutton - souths

14 david mills - harlequins
15 corey hughes - canterbury
16 keith mason - huddersfield
17 ashley gibson -leeds

very strong side with some good young brits

 

[Sam_the_man]

I thought you were naming a Wales test side not a failed aussie and never was England team.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I thought you were naming a Wales test side not a failed aussie and never was England team.

He's just naming a side of blokes with Welsh surnames. Although I think the RLIF rules probably allow that TBH.

 

[Sam_the_man]

He's just naming a side of blokes with Welsh surnames. Although I think the RLIF rules probably allow that TBH.

If those are the rules then England will have an unbeatable side in the next world cup.

1.B Webb
2.G Englis
3.M Cooper
4.K Senior
5.J Hodges
6.D Lockyer
7.S Long
8.A Morley
9.C Smith
10.A Blair
11.D Kidwell
12.S Mannering
13.S Hock

No wonder union laughs at us.

 

[deluded pom?]

petero has never played for another country. he has only ever played for australia. lets hope he continues to do so.

See the question mark after his name. Don't be surprised if Civoneceva is allowed to play for Fiji in the 2008 WC within three years of playing for Australia. If it happens it will once again make a mockery of RLIF qualification rules. But then again no one will be shocked at that.

 

[colonel_123]

Mate the Cayless bros are as Kiwi as me ....the only difference was their parents moved over to Aussie and had them year and i was born in NZ. But like them my parents are born and bread in NZ. Just because they are born there does not mean they are Australians.

It goes the same for all the Welsh and Irish players born in England...like you say if the are passionate to wear the jumper their should be no problems....but when they change their mind later on down the track thats when we have problems....

I think we have all said a meaningful International Season would stop players jumping ship.

Yeah I agree and it was the point I was making. If a player feels that he wants to represent a country other then the one he was born in, whether through heritage or culture, and he is eligible to do so then he should be allowed.

Like I said the issue isn't the grandparent rule or whatever, it's players turning out for minnow countries and then switching when given an opportunity to represent one of the big three nations.

 

[Leek UK]

wales possible 17,what u think?
1 brett stewart - manly
2 mark lennon - manly
3 ben harris - bradford
4 james evans - bradford
5 danny williams - leeds
6 iestyn harris - bradford
7 lee briers - warrington
8 gareth carvell - hull
9 keiron cunningham - st helens
10 reece williams - cronulla
11 stuart jones- huddersfield
12 glen stewart - manly
13 john sutton - souths

14 david mills - harlequins
15 corey hughes - canterbury
16 keith mason - huddersfield
17 ashley gibson -leeds

very strong side with some good young brits

IRELAND - - --

1 karl fitzpatrick - salford
2 brian carney - gold coast
3 luke o dwyer - paramatta
4 stuart littler - salford
5 anthony qinn - newcastle
6 chris bridge - warrington
7 lincoln withers - canberra
8 gareth haggerty - salford
9 shannon mcpherson - penrith
10 danny hill - wigan
11 simon finnigan - salford
12 chris mckenna - bradford
13 dallas mc ilwain - canterbury

14 shayne mcmenemy - hull
15 bob beswick - widnes
16 david allen - idnes
17 mick withers - wigan

not bad,eh?

 

[shaggy]

soccer, rugby union & cricket all have rules in place 4 players playing 4 countries not of their birth as long as they qualify under a residency/grandparent rule & all 3 allow players 2 play 4 a different nation @ junior rep tournaments (soccer was the last 2 switch with the case of tim cahill being an example which changed their rules) union & cricket also have rules in place 4 players switching nations as long as they qualify after a residency period

 

[hutch]

See the question mark after his name. Don't be surprised if Civoneceva is allowed to play for Fiji in the 2008 WC within three years of playing for Australia. If it happens it will once again make a mockery of RLIF qualification rules. But then again no one will be shocked at that.

sorry, took it the other way. if he does play for them it will make a mockery of the rlif, along with many other things that make a mockery of the rlif. i think he will still be playing well enough to play for aus in 2 years anyway. will be interesting.

 

[Leek UK]

IRELAND - - --

1 karl fitzpatrick - salford
2 brian carney - gold coast
3 luke o dwyer - paramatta
4 stuart littler - salford
5 anthony qinn - newcastle
6 chris bridge - warrington
7 lincoln withers - canberra
8 gareth haggerty - salford
9 shannon mcpherson - penrith
10 danny hill - wigan
11 simon finnigan - salford
12 chris mckenna - bradford
13 dallas mc ilwain - canterbury

14 shayne mcmenemy - hull
15 bob beswick - widnes
16 david allen - idnes
17 mick withers - wigan

not bad,eh?

SCOTLAND -

1 wade liddell - gateshead
2 jon steel - hull kr
3 steven bell - manly
4 mick nanyn - widnes
5 colin best - st george
6 kevin sinfield - leeds
7 richard horne - hull
8 scott logan - canberra
9 ian henderson - bradford
10 duncan macgilivray - wakefield
11 lee gilmour - st helens
12 mike wainwright - warrington
13 glenn morrison - bradford

14 daniel heckenberg - harlequins
15 andy henderson - castleford
16 oliver wilkes - widnes
17 graeme horne - hull

 

[deluded pom?]

SCOTLAND -

1 wade liddell - gateshead
2 jon steel - hull kr
3 steven bell - manly
4 mick nanyn - widnes
5 colin best - st george
6 kevin sinfield - leeds
7 richard horne - hull
8 scott logan - canberra
9 ian henderson - bradford
10 duncan macgilivray - wakefield
11 lee gilmour - st helens
12 mike wainwright - warrington
13 glenn morrison - bradford

14 daniel heckenberg - harlequins
15 andy henderson - castleford
16 oliver wilkes - widnes
17 graeme horne - hull

Graeme Horne has just played for England in the recent Federation Cup series.

 

[deluded pom?]

One of the Horne's Grandparents was born in the Isle of Man which technically meant that they could have chosen to play for any of the Home nations. As Richard has already played for Scotland in a WC, does this mean that he will not be allowed to jump ship for the 2008 WC? Or will the three year rule allow him to be picked for England?

 

[Leek UK]

Graeme Horne has just played for England in the recent Federation Cup series.

THE scotland squad could challenge australia for the world cup ;-)

 

[dibviking]

A bit like our Australian Soccer team. None live in Aus. Viduka wasn't born in Aus for an example.
Lets get over the grandparent rule because every other sport has it.
Time to move on.

Mark Viduka was born in Melbourne in 1975