Walmsley to sign - Possm take a bow!

[Old Timer]

That is the correct question. Now do you have an answer?

What off contract prop in 2019 should we go for?

Off contract on contract doesn't seem to make too much of a difference these days.
Also salary cap pressure forces clubs to offload good players at different times.
Notwithstanding any of that if we need to look for a prop why isn't it that we are looking for a SOO or test prop, isn't that the standard we should be aspiring to rather than some buying some unproven player (for NRL conditions) from overseas?
Everyone getting excited for someone we know very little about when we should be pressing for the cream of the crop because that's exactly what the highly successful clubs do whilst the also ran clubs do exactly what we do.

 

[Como Connection]

Off contract on contract doesn't seem to make too much of a difference these days.
Also salary cap pressure forces clubs to offload good players at different times.
Notwithstanding any of that if we need to look for a prop why isn't it that we are looking for a SOO or test prop, isn't that the standard we should be aspiring to rather than some buying some unproven player (for NRL conditions) from overseas?
Everyone getting excited for someone we know very little about when we should be pressing for the cream of the crop because that's exactly what the highly successful clubs do whilst the also ran clubs do exactly what we do.

I'm sure if he signs Widdop and Graham have given a big ok.
CC

 

[BennyV]

We may potentially need to replace 4 props in 2019. At this point in time, Ah Mau, Latimore, Allgood and Kerr who are currently all part of our top 30 are all off contract at the end of next year.

Hence I don't know why the angst if we do sign Walmsley (if it actually does happen) for 2019. We definitely need to bolster our prop stocks and IMO, Walmsley would be a good start.

Because we shouldn’t be paying $500k for an import who may or may not be able to cut it in NRL just to be our 3rd or 4th prop.

 

[Coffs dragon]

This thread is about nothing........hasn't happened!!

 

[possm]

Because we shouldn’t be paying $500k for an import who may or may not be able to cut it in NRL just to be our 3rd or 4th prop.

In my opinion we need one more top grade prop in 2018 and depending on how well our two young props go in 2018, possibly an additional first grade prop in 2019 - that is two props for 2019.

We reportedly have 900k to spend in 2018, enough to buy a prop and front end some contracts to ensure cap compliance in future years.

BennyV, if not Walmsley, who do you suggest? For the record I believe Walmsley will slot in as our second or third best prop in a 4 prop rotation.

If we moved JDB or Sims to prop, I believe we would only be weakening our backrow. Yes we have Host, Leilua and Sele just waiting for their chance however, none are first graders, none are SOO players and none of them are internationals. Like the young speedy backs in our squad, they will have to push for first grade selection by performing in reserve grade or off the bench. Form should be the dominant criteria used to promote them to first grade.

Walmsley will be in the same boat even though he is at the top in the ESL when it comes to props and he is an international prop who played in the World Cup Final for England; who were only narrowly beaten by the Kangaroos.

 

[blacksafake]

Any signings for 2020 yet?

L plate extended

 

[giboz71]

Because we shouldn’t be paying $500k for an import who may or may not be able to cut it in NRL just to be our 3rd or 4th prop.

Heard similar rumblings on this forum when we signed Paul Vaughan for over 600k, a reserve prop who couldn’t crack the Raiders starting line up. That signing went ok.

Yes, 500k is a lot for a bench prop (if that is what we actually pay). But do you not agree that our forward dominance was nullified as soon as Vaughan and Packer went off? We need to close that gap between our starters and the bench, especially if we’re going to insist on a forward dominated game plan.

Our outside backs sure as hell aren’t gonna win us games.

 

[BennyV]

Heard similar rumblings on this forum when we signed Paul Vaughan for over 600k, a reserve prop who couldn’t crack the Raiders starting line up. That signing went ok.

Yes, 500k is a lot for a bench prop (if that is what we actually pay). But do you not agree that our forward dominance was nullified as soon as Vaughan and Packer went off? We need to close that gap between our starters and the bench, especially if we’re going to insist on a forward dominated game plan.

Our outside backs sure as hell aren’t gonna win us games.

The people who referred to Vaughan as a reserve grade prop have rocks in their head. Regardless, he was signed as a starter, same as Graham. If we are signing Walmsley as a starter then different story (likewise if we are paying him as a bench prop), but I don’t see many clubs splashing that much for a prop off the bench.

I disagree that our forward dominance died once Packer nd Vaughan left. As a 3rd prop, Ah Mau is good and he did a good job early in the season. Our dominance died because the idiot in the coaches box burnt out our top props, Packer got injured and the clown started shifting Friz into the front row. He has no idea how to use a bench, and a lot of the season players in 16 and 17 jerseys would get a total of 20 mins combined. JDB and McInnes need decent replacements when they have a spell. The whole strategy of player usage is a mess. That’s why we collapsed. The prop rotation we have is not our issue.

 

[possm]

Heard similar rumblings on this forum when we signed Paul Vaughan for over 600k, a reserve prop who couldn’t crack the Raiders starting line up. That signing went ok.

Yes, 500k is a lot for a bench prop (if that is what we actually pay). But do you not agree that our forward dominance was nullified as soon as Vaughan and Packer went off? We need to close that gap between our starters and the bench, especially if we’re going to insist on a forward dominated game plan.

Our outside backs sure as hell aren’t gonna win us games.

Let's take a closer look at our outside backs and see if we can rectify problems experienced last year. I'd have to say that one of our biggest problems was the compressed defence game plan. It certainly did tighten up the middle but left our edges venerable mainly because we did not have the speed out wide to take care of the obvious; long pass to un-marked wingers hugging the sideline and long high kicks to the corners with opposition wingers first to the ball.

We all know the answer and it is not compressed defence every play. Yes there is the occasion when it will prove a successful play, but more of a Bennett defensive strategy of marking you man and being responsible for your territory on the field would go a long way to solving the problem. I mean what happened to this Bennett defensive plan. Why haven't the likes of Hornby and Young adopted this successful plan?

There is no doubt that we need speed out wide and Mary should concentrate in having the team equipped to remedy the problems faced out wide last season. It is not good enough to just select the usual suspects and see how they go for a few games; we just don't have the luxury of giving away competition points without any benefit to the team. At least if speedy players - lacking experience - were introduced from game one, the benefit to the team would be the experience they gain and the improvement this would bring to the team.

1. Fullback - Dufty, Field, Mann or Lomax
All of the above have youth and speed to offer and each have varying degrees of experience. I think we are well served for possible fullbacks and so it will only be a matter of time before one of the above will claim ownership of the position.

2. Left Wing - Nightingale, Macdonald and Man. One of our problem areas last season even though Nightingale performed to the best of his ability and beyond expectations. He score a hat rick of tries on three occasions during the season and developed a good combination with Widdop and Lafai. Sadly his speed was not up to first grade standard and so was caught out of positon many times with the ability to rectify the situation. To be fair, having to defend in a compressed formation and not having the speed to adjust for the long ball or high kick to the corner was more a fault of the coaching staff then his lack of speed. Macdonald score very few tries in season 2017 and although having McCrone at 7 contributed in a large way to this problem, Nene himself seemed to be slow, lazy and disinterested. I doubt a move to the left wing ahead of Mann would serve the team well. I think Mann at left wing will have the speed and the experience to do well running off Widdop and Lafai.

3. Right Centre - Aitken, Mann and Lomax. This position is our number 1 problem. To be fair Aitken was paying injured when he played and so did not have the fitness required to perform in the position however, although a good defender in his debut season, the plan of rushing up to nullify the oppositions attack failed and ended with points against us on most occasions. I understand that this tactic was part of the game plan however, Aitken was for whatever reason not up to carrying out this play. I believe Aitken has the speed required to play right centre however, his ability to set up his winger with good ball and with room to mve is questionable. Aitken is very suspect under the high ball and is not agile laterally in defence. For these reasons I believe Aitken should being season 2018 playing right centre in reserve grade and hope to win his return to first grade on form. Given my preference for Mann's selection at left wing, it goes without saying that Lomax would be the most likely to take up the right centre position. This of course would be conditional on his performance in off-season training and during the trials. But if he performs well, he possesses the size, speed and defensive ability we have been lacking at right centre. For me Dugan should have been our right centre in 2017.

4. Left Centre - Lafai. I just can't see Mary selecting anyone other than Lafai at left centre and so if he avoids injury during the off-season, I feel certain he will be one of the first selected in our backline in 2018.

5. Right Wing - Macdonald, Nightingale, or one of our young guns. If Lomax is selected at right centre, I think it too much to slot a young gun beside him on the right wing. At the Dogs, Lafai used to play right centre so if we switched centres with Lomax on the left and Lafai on the right we would have a combination of new young speedster on each edge combined with an experienced first grader. Other alternatives would be to put Mann at right centre and bring in a young gun on the right wing. If we did this then Lomax to left wing would be the most obvious.

We need to introduce speed and enthusiasm to the outside back positons, the status quo failed in 2017 and if not changed will fail again in 2018.

 

[possm]

The people who referred to Vaughan as a reserve grade prop have rocks in their head. Regardless, he was signed as a starter, same as Graham. If we are signing Walmsley as a starter then different story (likewise if we are paying him as a bench prop), but I don’t see many clubs splashing that much for a prop off the bench.

I disagree that our forward dominance died once Packer nd Vaughan left. As a 3rd prop, Ah Mau is good and he did a good job early in the season. Our dominance died because the idiot in the coaches box burnt out our top props, Packer got injured and the clown started shifting Friz into the front row. He has no idea how to use a bench, and a lot of the season players in 16 and 17 jerseys would get a total of 20 mins combined. JDB and McInnes need decent replacements when they have a spell. The whole strategy of player usage is a mess. That’s why we collapsed. The prop rotation we have is not our issue.

Walmsley will be our Kasiano and Frizell was effectively used in short bursts in 2017. Now if Frizell is over his back / ribs injury and go back to being closed to an 80min player, Walmsley could be used in short bursts as an impact player. Ah Mau is a workhorse but far from an impact player. I tip Vaughan to be selected for SOO in 2018 and if that happens in 2019 we will have two international props and an SOO prop. A big up upgrade on what we have right now. In hindsight keeping Packer was the most sensible thing to do.

 

[giboz71]

Well, it seems there are valid arguments for and against his signing.

When it comes down to it, it seems the question is do we want an upgrade on Ah Mau as our 3rd prop and it seems if we do, we have to pay for the privilege (whether its Walmsley or someone else).

I tend to think we do. Leeson is a good player, but if we want to win a comp, we need to do better here (as well as a lot of other areas).

 

[Old Timer]

Well, it seems there are valid arguments for and against his signing.

When it comes down to it, it seems the question is do we want an upgrade on Ah Mau as our 3rd prop and it seems if we do, we have to pay for the privilege (whether its Walmsley or someone else).

I tend to think we do. Leeson is a good player, but if we want to win a comp, we need to do better here (as well as a lot of other areas).

It looks like LAM is heading to the whipping post.
I can assure you LAM is the least of our worries and is not the difference between us winning or not winning a premiership
He provides more positives than negatives and would be a welcome addition to opposition clubs so why get rid of him?

 

[JDHD]

It looks like LAM is heading to the whipping post.
I can assure you LAM is the least of our worries and is not the difference between us winning or not winning a premiership
He provides more positives than negatives and would be a welcome addition to opposition clubs so why get rid of him?

That he can also play on an edge is another reason to keep him.

 

[giboz71]

It looks like LAM is heading to the whipping post.
I can assure you LAM is the least of our worries and is not the difference between us winning or not winning a premiership
He provides more positives than negatives and would be a welcome addition to opposition clubs so why get rid of him?

No,not at all. As I’ve said, I like Leeson as a player and wouldn’t necessarily be upset if we keep him. I just think it’s another area we can improve. He’s far from the best bench prop out there.

Any incremental improvements we can make in the right areas will be the difference between being a top 4 side, and where we are now (which is nowhere).

 

[TomRedVRiver]

The more I think about the Walmsley signing, the more i'm indifferent. If he signs, it would be interesting to see if he makes it, but the thing we all need to understand is that the game is moving away from low-minute impact props.

Have a look back to 2012/14 when teams like the Rabbitohs and Bulldogs were successful. Souths had both Burgess boys playing in short spirts to great effect, however... With the reduced interchange, we're seeing the bigger forwards shed weight and get fitter to play longer minutes. Guys like George Burgess/Shannon Boyd/Kasiano/Eastwood aren't anywhere near as effective anymore. Not to mention size isn't everything, with tackling techniques becoming more and more effective against the bigger players.

If Walmsley wants to make it in the NRL he needs to develop that footwork and offload in his game. The short-stints and battering ram style won't work in our competition.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I find it curious that people want Walmsley because at 28 hes the prime age for a prop yet want to ditch LAM hecause hes too old.
Funny enough they're the same age.

Another point mentioned was that, as a bench player, which both are, Walmsley woukd have more impact because hes bigger. Yes hes taller but weight wise they're almost comparible 115/112, remember one is NRL hardenedvthe othet will loose weight once the fitness level required for NRL is reached.

One thing i will say is that im predicting young Blocker will become one ofvthe best props we've ever had.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Dragonslayer.


One thing i will say is that im predicting young Blocker will become one ofvthe best props we've ever had.[/QUOTE]


Agree.
Young lowrie will be a top class prop.
He's as tough as nails and trains hard.
But above all he loves playing for the dragons and want to learn.
He only a kid.
Props are usually at the best at 25 plus.
He will make it in my option

 

[muzby]

I find it curious that people want Walmsley because at 28 hes the prime age for a prop yet want to ditch LAM hecause hes too old.
Funny enough they're the same age.

Another point mentioned was that, as a bench player, which both are, Walmsley woukd have more impact because hes bigger. Yes hes taller but weight wise they're almost comparible 115/112, remember one is NRL hardenedvthe othet will loose weight once the fitness level required for NRL is reached.

It’s called ‘forumitis’ and it’s a type of group-think where the flavour of the month (usually a junior but sometimes an outside player) is seen as the cure to all our problems and should be included in the team at the expense of whichever whipping boy is copping it (in this case Ah Moo)..

 

[Dragon Revival]

We will need at least 6
decent props to win games. Graham is no spring chicken and may get injured while
Vaughan may play State of Origin. We are one prop short at least so why single out Ah Mau who always puts in. It is funny that we do not have one local prop to fill the bill. That says a lot about our poor pathways in the area of props.

 

[SGMax]

We have funds for a prop in 2018 and we should get a the best one available.
Throw $700K at RCG and see if he will come over....or the next best.

Get a centre winger for $400k with the rest and cut one of our current average backs for any shortfall.
Walmsley can still join us in 2019 if he wants....we will have a few of our backup props to release if necessary.

The juniors can learn and develop in their own time in a dominant successful club. No player is owed a career path unless they are the best available for the team.
Its up to them to perform well enough in lower grades to prove they are good enough for a FG spot.

Dragons need to take every opportunity to upgrade their roster to compete for the title consistently.