Wanna get back into weights - advice please

[Thomas]

Same. I sometimes use dumb bells but only after I've done them with a bar and with a lighter weight, just to help with my stability.

 

[dogslife]

I've been incorporating dumbbells a lot more in the last 6 months, they're really good

 

[abpanther]

Okay guys i really need some help with my squats; this is the second time in a week that I've hurt my lower back doing them, had to leave the gym this morning, was really pissed off!

Haven't had any problems until this week and even my warm ups this morning were fine, i think maybe once i go heavy it starts exposing some flaws in my technique.

I think what is happening is that im going down with my head up and spine arched upright, but when i hit the bottom and come back up i think im pushing with my legs, then try to straighten my back which i think is where its happening, that's when i felt it go this morning anyway.

Are you supposed to straighten your back at all on the way up? Im thinking im gonna drop like 20kg and start again but i want some help in what adjustments i need to make.

Any advice would be great

 

[abpanther]

I just had a look at through Arnie encyclopedia and there's a picture of common mistakes people make squatting that hurts their lower back, says if your head is too far forward it brings your lower back into it, sounds like i need to keep my head straighter

 

[GuardDog]

Okay guys i really need some help with my squats; this is the second time in a week that I've hurt my lower back doing them, had to leave the gym this morning, was really pissed off!

Haven't had any problems until this week and even my warm ups this morning were fine, i think maybe once i go heavy it starts exposing some flaws in my technique.

I think what is happening is that im going down with my head up and spine arched upright, but when i hit the bottom and come back up i think im pushing with my legs, then try to straighten my back which i think is where its happening, that's when i felt it go this morning anyway.

Are you supposed to straighten your back at all on the way up? Im thinking im gonna drop like 20kg and start again but i want some help in what adjustments i need to make.

Any advice would be great

6 years ago i had an issue with my lower back when squatting and it turned out to be a lack flexibility in the hip flexor,hammies and glutes and my squat depth improved by improving these areas.Maybe squat to a depth ur comfy with and work on it from there.Once your hammy can touch your calves without rounding your back you're sweet.Dont let the knees buckle in at any time so drop the weight if need be.Squeeze the upper back,maintain the arched back and brace the abs to stabilise the body.I'm sure others here will add to this just be patient with the squat.GL

 

[abpanther]

Thanks for the advice, seems consistent with what I have read here regarding lower back pain with squats - http://stronglifts.com/squats-exercise-lower-back-pain/

Seems like I might be going too deep and it's rounding my back, also need to make sure that I'm driving back up with my glutes and pushing my hips back forward.

Man my back is really sore

 

[abpanther]

May also help if I can get the bar placement a little lower

 

[abpanther]

This seems to answer some questions - http://stronglifts.com/squat-clinic-lower-back-pain-mitch/

I think a lower bar position coupled with ensuring my stance is wide enough and knees out to incorporate my glutes should help.

How wide are ya'll stances?

 

[abpanther]

Okay I found this link and it was really helpful - http://squatrx.blogspot.com.au/2008/06/squats-lower-back-pain.html

I think my problems have been:
- Driving too much with hips first on the way up and as such doing a good morning on the way up, stressing my lower back. Need to make sure that I'm driving with hips, glutes and hammies into upright position in one motion.
- Doing low bar squats with a high bar position, meaning the bar is too far away from my centre of gravity and causing back strain
- Possibly stance not wide enough and knees not going out far enough to ensure glutes/hamstrings are activated.

 

[GuardDog]

what works for me-feet just wider than shoulder width left foot in a 10 o clock,right foot 2 o clock position,on the descent break at the hips 1st then spring knees out straight after,on the way up keep chin up and drive thru the heels making sure knees dont buckle in

 

[abpanther]

Got back to the gym today after being off for over a week with back pains.

Dropped my squat weight and readjusted my technique, came through it all unscathed. Just happy to be back at the gym

 

[Hooch]

You have chronic back issues. It was obvious when you were talking about the awesome pain in your back after deadlifting a few months ago.

Keep doing what you are doing and work on form and eliminating any lumbar flexion (even if it costs you depth, everyone will squat different depending on anatomy and hip flexibility), but once your discs are damaged in such a manner they never heal as such, they only settle, and your back may not be suited to high compressive loads you get from heavy squats and deads.

If you find yourself in a cycle of causing yourself back pain by squatting and deadlifting, do another exercise, or one day the disc will be too torn up and the pain may never leave you and you will not be a happy chappy then. It's up to you to determine the difference between the pain of effort and the pain of tissue damage. A burning or stabbing pain in your back is not the pain of effort.

I'm cautioning you because most bros will be all, harden the f**k up, lift heavy dude and have awesome definition on my back etc etc, but they've really got nfi about injury or life in general.

Have a look at this. This is Rippietoe squatting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVKEl4Wxoqc

Notice how at the bottom of each squat he reaches his hips end range of motion, then gets a little more by flexing his lumbar spine. Terrible form, and that is how you increase the load on your lumbar discs by a large amount (specifically anterior shear). So don't think you will necessarily get good instruction on squatting.

If you have good healthy discs (and most people squatting do), you can get away with it, and it will probably work your hammies as well when you flex that lower back. But it is at the cost of very high spine loads. If you start doing that sort of thing with existing back problems and heavy weights you will hurt yourself.

This post might cause a minor shit storm but everything I say there is true, the responses will be along the lines of 'I lift with some minor flexion and I don't hurt myself so it must be the same for you', or 'you've just got to have a better training attitude' or 'my back hurt for a bit then I got a massage and it went away now I squat heavy' etc etc. It just means they're not injured and unfamiliar with the mechanism of disc injury and back pain.

Good luck and train smart.

 

[abpanther]

Thanks for the feedback.

So do you have a link or video on a recommended technique?

I can definitely tell the difference between pain and soreness

 

[Hooch]

Go to www.backfitpro.com and you can buy McGills stuff there if you really want to go into it.

But it is simple, maintain neutral spine and brace your abdominals. Rippietoes book teaches this well on his squat stuff (so it was surprising to see him flexing his back in that video), but just be aware that not everyone has the hip flexibility to reach parallel with a neutral spine.

I don't have any links to show it. There is one on one of those dvd's I watched yonks ago where McGill points it out to a class. But you can see it on that Rippietoe youtube link. Watch as he goes down, lumbar spine is neutral, then right at the end you will see the lower back round slightly as he drops into the hole.

You have to eliminate any rounding (or arching) of the lower back. Get someone to film you or just use a broomstick and watch yourself in the mirror to develop form.

As soon as you round the lower back like that you get a lot more shear force on the spine, and if you have disc issues you will know about it, as you found out with a week off with back pain.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

You have chronic back issues. It was obvious when you were talking about the awesome pain in your back after deadlifting a few months ago.

Keep doing what you are doing and work on form and eliminating any lumbar flexion (even if it costs you depth, everyone will squat different depending on anatomy and hip flexibility), but once your discs are damaged in such a manner they never heal as such, they only settle, and your back may not be suited to high compressive loads you get from heavy squats and deads.

If you find yourself in a cycle of causing yourself back pain by squatting and deadlifting, do another exercise, or one day the disc will be too torn up and the pain may never leave you and you will not be a happy chappy then. It's up to you to determine the difference between the pain of effort and the pain of tissue damage. A burning or stabbing pain in your back is not the pain of effort.

I'm cautioning you because most bros will be all, harden the f**k up, lift heavy dude and have awesome definition on my back etc etc, but they've really got nfi about injury or life in general.

Have a look at this. This is Rippietoe squatting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVKEl4Wxoqc

Notice how at the bottom of each squat he reaches his hips end range of motion, then gets a little more by flexing his lumbar spine. Terrible form, and that is how you increase the load on your lumbar discs by a large amount (specifically anterior shear). So don't think you will necessarily get good instruction on squatting.

If you have good healthy discs (and most people squatting do), you can get away with it, and it will probably work your hammies as well when you flex that lower back. But it is at the cost of very high spine loads. If you start doing that sort of thing with existing back problems and heavy weights you will hurt yourself.

This post might cause a minor shit storm but everything I say there is true, the responses will be along the lines of 'I lift with some minor flexion and I don't hurt myself so it must be the same for you', or 'you've just got to have a better training attitude' or 'my back hurt for a bit then I got a massage and it went away now I squat heavy' etc etc. It just means they're not injured and unfamiliar with the mechanism of disc injury and back pain.

Good luck and train smart.

I agree with your points but disagree on the video of rip- his lumbar spine looks pretty good there to me. There might be just the faintest touch of rounding on the last couple of reps, but his form is still alright, I reckon you could easily find much worse examples.

 

[abpanther]

Just an update, I'm back into the squats and it's all going well so far, I've incorporated the changes I researched (low bar position, feet pointing out, etc) and so far I've had no back pain and definitely feeling soreness the next day in quads, hammies and glutes.

 

[Cliffhanger]

Learned in health fitness and performance that new studies reveal that regardless of your sport you should be doing both muscular strength and muscular endurance training, so I am going to start lifting heavy again.

My PB is 67.5kg and I achieved that in 2010 (the last time I lifted heavy). I knew it would be a bad idea to attempt that today so I settled for 35 kg, it took effort.

Anyway hope to be benching above my bodyweight (58-60kg) by August and double my body weight by the end of the year.

 

[Cliffhanger]

Turns out it was 39 kg, I didn't have time to weight the bar on Tuesday. I added 3 more kilos today, so now at 42 kg. I'm positive that's nowhere near the most I can do, but without a spotter, trying t lift the maximum I can would be stupid.