Was it breaches that made the Melbourne Storm successful?

[Ike E Bear]

The players don't care about what eachother are earning. They don't sit there with calculators and add up the 25 player rosters salary cap. Its an absurd insinuation. Waldron and his cronies the only ones to blame.

While I believe what you say about players discussing pay conditions is largley correct, if a player signed two different contracts listing two different pay conditions then they were willing participants in the cheating and as such deserve some of the blame. If they didn't report their full earnings to the ATO, then they have a whole new set of problems and the NRL might be the least of their worries.

Maybe this didn't happen. Maybe in the cloudy mists of third-party sponsorships and this and that they simply didn't realise that what they were getting wasn't fully and properly disclosed to the NRL. Perhaps they conducted themselves in a way that was completely appropriate and acceptable.

Some doubt over this point, however, exists. It's simply too early to lay all the blame on Waldron, in my opinion. Further investigation is required.

 

[mickdo]

The players don't care about what eachother are earning. They don't sit there with calculators and add up the 25 player rosters salary cap. Its an absurd insinuation. Waldron and his cronies the only ones to blame.

Not if players were signing two contracts...

 

[taxidriver]

i didn't respond because if he is too stupid to work out signing two contracts would raise alarm bells then.................

then......

maybe he should be playing for the storm

 

[Eelementary]

So it's OK because Melbourne cheated the cap to keep the players they had already developed (ignoring the fact they signed Finch off us, buying out his contract, whilst they were already cheating)?

:roll:

Parra haven't won a Grand Final, but let me tell you this - because of our 'successful' seasons (2001, 2005, 2007, 2009) we have lost a lot of talent we'd rather have kept. We're talking your Willie Tongas, your Dave and John Williams, your Trent Hodkinsons, your James Maloneys, your PJ Marshs (though he eventually came back)....Most, if not all, the talent we have lost came through our ranks in some way. But we either couldn't afford to keep them or our genius coaches let them go. Either way we didn't cheat to accommodate them.

I am sure Manly, Penrith, the Roosters, Bulldogs, Dragons and Tigers can say the same thing.

Melbourne cheated. They did have a massive advantage over everyone else because, unlike the rest of the Grand Finalists or Premiers or Minor Premiers of years gone by, the players that helped them get there - the major players that helped them get there - were retained illegally whilst every other team bled.

I don't blame the fans. But the coach and players and the administrators are all to be held accountable.

 

[Anna Bolic]

Today Ben Cross said that Melbourne were successful because of "doing the hard yards", not because of the cap breaches.

The total breaches are $1.7mil, with $400k in 2009 and $700k in 2010. That mean that means the breaches in the previous three years were $600k, or an average of $200k a season for those years. $200k is such a small amount of money - it represents LESS than 5% of the cap. Surely 95% of the Storm would have still be a strong force in those years. Surely the Melbourne Storm would have still be strong in 2007 without ONE middle-range player, such as Anthony Quinn.

So I think Ben Cross has a point for the earlier years of the (now defunct) "dynasty". I'm in the firm belief that Melbourne would have almost as successful in the early years if things were done honestly and above-board. But the more recent and more more significant breaches of 2009 and 2010 are a different story.

I guess we'll all know the answer to this one at the end of the 2011 season - when all the teams are back onto a level playing field.

 

[The EELiminator]

So it's OK because Melbourne cheated the cap to keep the players they had already developed (ignoring the fact they signed Finch off us, buying out his contract, whilst they were already cheating)?

:roll:

Parra haven't won a Grand Final, but let me tell you this - because of our 'successful' seasons (2001, 2005, 2007, 2009) we have lost a lot of talent we'd rather have kept. We're talking your Willie Tongas, your Dave and John Williams, your Trent Hodkinsons, your James Maloneys, your PJ Marshs (though he eventually came back)....Most, if not all, the talent we have lost came through our ranks in some way. But we either couldn't afford to keep them or our genius coaches let them go. Either way we didn't cheat to accommodate them.

I am sure Manly, Penrith, the Roosters, Bulldogs, Dragons and Tigers can say the same thing.

Melbourne cheated. They did have a massive advantage over everyone else because, unlike the rest of the Grand Finalists or Premiers or Minor Premiers of years gone by, the players that helped them get there - the major players that helped them get there - were retained illegally whilst every other team bled.

I don't blame the fans. But the coach and players and the administrators are all to be held accountable.

and part 2 to that is how much better would the players they lost make whichever team they went to? plus who would the new team release to buy that storm player and what impact would they have on whoever bought them? it goes on and on

 

[Loudstrat]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

 

[The EELiminator]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

i dunno you still have finch and smith as the halves :lol:

 

[RockWheel]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

Well it does have Finch in it...

 

[Slackboy72]

Well it does have Finch in it...

Some of the less gracious among us would say that the fact that Finch is still a loser is the real positive to come out of this sordid scandal.

 

[mickdo]

I'd have Mateo at 6, not Finch. Mannah on the bench.

 

[Someone]

So much hate for finch. If its from 05 id have john morris at 6 and tim smith at 7, that combo was deadly.

 

[RockWheel]

Some of the less gracious among us would say that the fact that Finch is still a loser is the real positive to come out of this sordid scandal.

His could be the most tragic tale in all of football. He couldn't even win a premiership even when his team won a grand final.

 

[Billythekid]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

I think that team looks no stronger than your current team. Seriously i think you could have come up with a better side than that.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Was it the breach that made the storm successful? Yes and No
Yes-it did play a big role in it
No-it takes more than having the best players in the comp to win the grand final

 

[Ike E Bear]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

Ditch McKinnon and move Hayne to fullback, then Luke Burt on the wing.

Not sold on Finch and Smith together, but the other option is Morris. You could argue for Hodkinson too, I guess.

Think I'd rather Kingston over Riddell at this stage ... especially based on Kingo's current form with the Panthers. Then have Morris on the bench (assuming you don't put him in the halves).

Add Mannah to the bench for Robinson.

Hayne
Burt
Lyon
Tahu
Grothe
Finch
Smith
Cayless
Kingston
Moi Moi
Hindmarsh
Morrison
Mateo

Morris
Widders
Poore
Mannah

Of course, you'd have to expect that the Dragons could keep Poore. Morrison would still be a Tiger. Finch a Raider (although maybe they wouldn't want him). Kingston a Shark. Tahu and Morris Knights.

So maybe you end up with a side like ...

Hayne
Burt
Inu
Tonga
Grothe
Lyon
T Smith
N Cayless
M Keating (PJ Marsh would have beat him here, but was forced into retirement this year)
Moimoi
Hindmarsh
Taia
Mateo

K Keating/Mortimer
Widders
Cannings
J Cayless/C Armit

That one's probably less impressive than what we've actually got.

I've wasted a fair bit of time doing this ... kind of fun, though.

 

[Ulysseus]

Of course, you'd have to expect that the Dragons could keep Poore. Morrison would still be a Tiger. Finch a Raider (although maybe they wouldn't want him). Kingston a Shark. Tahu and Morris Knights.
.

lol, we are right thanks all the same.
Hunt is going quiet well there.
Justin got an offer, he knocked it back and Wayne very rarely bargains..............

 

[Loudstrat]

I think that team looks no stronger than your current team. Seriously i think you could have come up with a better side than that.

Yeah, maybe if I had $13 million per year, two sets of books and a hidden cupboard under the vegie patch.

 

[stormbati]

Eels side if they did a Melbourne since 2005:

Wade McKinnon
Jarryd Hayne
Jamie Lyon
Timana Tahu
Eric Grothe
Brett Finch
Tim Smith
Nathan Cayless
Mark Riddell
Fiu Fiu Moi Moi
Nathan Hindmarsh
Glenn Morrison
Dean Widders

Luke Burt
Chad Robinson
Feleti Mateo
Justin Poore

tell me that side wouldn't win a comp!

Yes good side, I understand what your trying to say but who have you left out who'd be good enough to make this side? I'm guessing that's parras best side in the last 5 years yes?

By the time we won the 09 GF, these are some of the players who were let go,

Scott Hill - Aus
David Kidwell- Nz
Ben Cross - Nsw
Jeremy Smith - Nz
Antonio Kaufusi - Aus
Matt King - Aus
Israel Folau - Aus
Michael Crocker - Aus

Then there's players like Matt Geyer, Nathan Friend, The side you named is much stronger on paper than the storm 09 side.

 

[Loudstrat]

The fact that you signed them in the first place, plus the current mob, reeks of rorting.

Parra's a strong, well financed club. And even my above scenario goes nowhere near your reality.