WB Myth or Messiah

[juniorknight]

I have brought this over from the Eddie thread but after seeing some of the goings on over the past few weeks plus watching the Dragons on Friday night I think we may be overestimating WB and his "development" skills.

He is undoubtly a great recruitment manager & his reputation obviously helps this. My issue is that while Jeremy Smith will probably be great and add some real agression next season what happens in 2 years time when he is wel past it. What has happened to the let them leave a year too early theory.

Our current team and doesn't seem like it will be able to compete once the WB show packs up in 3 years time. If we look at the side we have Tahu, Bedsy, Mason, Costigan, Gidley, Houston, Snowden(?) who will all be gone by the time WB leaves (Boyd is likely to leave then also on his previous form). Mullen will be lucky to still be there as he continues to attempt to reach his potential. From next years potential signings both Smith and Scott (maybe Stagg?) will also only be short term options. Roberts and Tetevano are both young and unproven and Mckinnon is still developing as is Rochow & Kev and are certainly not yet "franchise" type players. We are yet to see how the WB machine goes with development as all players appear to have gone backwards this year compared to last. I can't say anyone has made any significant improvement certainly anymore than they would under any other coach.

My question is do we have any succession planning occurring as letting blokes such as Eddy (approx 50games/early 20's) and even KOD, regardless of your opinion of them, go mean that we are going to have the same dramas as the Dragons eg blokes who are past it and others not ready to make the step up. We aren't signing many guys in the right age bracket IMHO. WB left the Broncos and Henjak struggled to get them as competitive as they had been (still went alright i thought) and now Dragons who have fans asking whats the go as blokes like Hornby, Weyman, Cooper, Young take up large portions of salary cap with no real success.

 

[Spot On]

I'm going to be quite blunt here.

1. Wayne Bennett wins a comp, on average, every three years and has done so over a very long period of time. Only a fool would subscribe to the "overrated" tag and the "Broncs should have won the comp every year" theory.

2. Salary Cap - designed to stop the same club winning the comp every year. See the Melbourne Storm systematic rorting scheme for proof that you would need to cheat to keep winning the comp year after year.

3. If Tinkler, Bennett and the club can't put in place the structures at the Knights and local group to start producing, identifying and retaining the very best local talent to play for our club for years to come then I will start to ask questions like you. Personally, there's nothing to worry about there.

4. I don't know who is sucking up the millions at the Dragons or where the money is but I can't begin to lay blame on Bennett for the mess their squad is in. Direct those questions to one P. Doust.

 

[Fire]

In my opinion the man is an absolute legend. However, he should not be above criticism. He is the best coach, ever. But don't buy into his "I'm going to build a culture at this club". That is all bullshit. He will get you a Premiership then move on (but hey, that's his job).

 

[Apey]

neither.

much much much much much...

...

... much much closer to a messiah than a myth though. a myth, lol, FMD. LU's favourite pre-ejaculation buzz word. One (relatively) poor year does not make him a myth.

 

[juniorknight]

Spot on I don't care if you are blunt and yes he has won premierships but I believe part of a successful coach is someone who can leave the place better than he found it. If we don't win the comp in the next 3 years we are left with no premiership and we have a club which is struggling in mid field with no real plan for the future. All the eggs are in 1 basket and that ship sails for whatever reason and we miss that boat we are up S*%t creek without a paddle (or a decent team!)

 

[RABK]

4 years is a huge time in the salary cap era - premiership teams have been built and torn apart within 2 years. See Panthers 03 and Tigers 05.

Let's wait and see how Bennett evolves the squad in such time. Whilst i agree his recruitment/retention thus far seems to be aimed at using experienced heads to quickly build a premiership contending team i'll reserve judgement for the 2014/2015 silly seasons to see if that trend continues and Bennett plans on leaving the place 'rotting' roster wise by recruiting/retaining expensive experience to maintain success in his time or recruit and promote young talent for the club to build on post Bennett.

 

[Burwood]

Spot on I don't care if you are blunt and yes he has won premierships but I believe part of a successful coach is someone who can leave the place better than he found it. If we don't win the comp in the next 3 years we are left with no premiership and we have a club which is struggling in mid field with no real plan for the future. All the eggs are in 1 basket and that ship sails for whatever reason and we miss that boat we are up S*%t creek without a paddle (or a decent team!)

I think you have massively misjudged Bennett's job at Newcastle.

A misconception is that Bennett is here just to win a premiership. He has stated on many occasions over the past twelve months that he is at Newcastle to build something that will set up the club for the next 20 years. It is the 'vision' that is often referred to in the media by Bennett when talking about what enticed him to the club in the first place.

Bennett has also stated that his recruitment is looking at the long term, not overnight success. If he was shooting for a premiership in 2012 he would have recruited differently. You may see him recruiting old players as very short-sighted, but obviously he sees something extra in them that you don't.

Logic would say that he wants to instil a certain ethos and work effort into the next generation of Knights coming through the system. Last year our forward leader was Houston! This year it is Buderus and Mason. Next year you can add Scott to the list. Every single player in the system will be better for having played, trained or simply being around those three very experienced guys. And when these guys retire their influence will still be felt at the club for years to come.

Even if we go without a premiership in Bennett's time at the club, I won't care one iota if it means that we will again field a competitive team every year until 2030. No more periods of 5+ years where we are simply happy to scrape into 8th position.

 

[Fire]

A misconception is that Bennett is here just to win a premiership. He has stated on many occasions over the past twelve months that he is at Newcastle to build something that will set up the club for the next 20 years. It is the 'vision' that is often referred to in the media by Bennett when talking about what enticed him to the club in the first place.

Don't mean to be a smart arse mate, but this is exactly the type of shit that you shouldn't buy into. In my opinion he is there to get you a Premiership. If Tinkler hangs around his money could help the club after Wayne leaves in 2016.

 

[Burwood]

Don't mean to be a smart arse mate, but this is exactly the type of shit that you shouldn't buy into. In my opinion he is there to get you a Premiership. If Tinkler hangs around his money could help the club after Wayne leaves in 2016.

Why? No doubt Bennett and Tinkler would be aiming at a premiership like every other club in the competition (Tinkler especially), but I just don't believe that is the yardstick which they will ultimately measure success on.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

Wayne is not infallable. Noone is. Messiah is a wank term. He is the man we will forever salute as being why our culture is one of envy by the time he is gone. His dry humour and smirk is gold in a press conference. He is exactly what we need right now.

 

[KempoKnight]

Don't mean to be a smart arse mate, but this is exactly the type of shit that you shouldn't buy into. In my opinion he is there to get you a Premiership. If Tinkler hangs around his money could help the club after Wayne leaves in 2016.

I think you may have that opinion because thats why he went to the dragons. It was stated multiple times he was there to get them the premiership they have been waiting so long for. Coming to Newcastle wasn't just about winning premierships. It was also about building the club into a powerhouse.

Also this thread is 2 years to early. He hasn't even been here for 1/4 of the time he will be and you get people like the OP spouting of ridiculous things like this already? FMD give the guy sometime to make the club his.

 

[Spot On]

Spot on I don't care if you are blunt and yes he has won premierships but I believe part of a successful coach is someone who can leave the place better than he found it. If we don't win the comp in the next 3 years we are left with no premiership and we have a club which is struggling in mid field with no real plan for the future. All the eggs are in 1 basket and that ship sails for whatever reason and we miss that boat we are up S*%t creek without a paddle (or a decent team!)

How would you say Bennett left the Broncos? Good or bad shape for the future after his departure?

I wouldn't take anything out of the St George situation. They dug themselves a hole and are struggling to get out of it. Bennett comes, wins a comp, they pay ridiculous dollars for a centre, then can't keep the mongrel they had in their pack. A few blokes there are on a retirement fund and until the club bites the bullet, cuts some of the old blokes and promotes some young blokes on lower wages they are going to be tight on dollars.

You are looking at the very short term. We all want to win Premierships and be competitive each year. I can see no reason to suggest that this club won't be competitive most years going forward and after Bennett leaves. I believe Tinkler has enough smarts about him to plan for the future. I believe Bennett has stated he is here to do a job that will see the club competitive for years to come.

Write to the club and ask Midley what is being put in place to ensure the best possible chance of ongoing success after Bennett leaves. If he doesn't know, then PANIC mate!

 

[Yosh]

He is a champion full stop. Loving his work and I hope he stays on!

 

[Wato]

This rubbish about all our players going backwards this season is getting old. Some of our players have struggled to adapt to the new structures of Bennett coached teams but there has been improvement in several key players. For starters Mullen has had his best season yet and Roberts is developing as well, then you have young guys like Kev,Tets and even Rochow who have all produced there best ever seasons as well. Then you have guys like Mase and Tahu who everyone said was past it yet Bennett has them producing quality footy. If anything I would say the guys not improving have been the older more established players who may have not taken the criticism as well as the younger guys and therefore may not have taken as much on board.

On the big issue about the future of our team, many of our younger guys signed deals earlier this year and Boyd has also not ruled out remaining with the club remembering he only left Saints to follow Bennetts so should Bennett retire then you would think his a fair chance to remain with the club.

 

[RHCP]

Jeez Rugby League fans have short memories. Play 6 good games and you're the next NSW halfback, play 6 bad games and you should never have been signed, sack the board. Sames go for coaches it seems.

The Dragons were the most dominant team in the competition for 2 and a half years. There's so many players who made their debut for the Blues after a bit of Bennett magic that now I think about it surely he has to hold some kind of record for it. He came away with yet another premiership and 2 JJ Giltinan Shields. That Dragons era ended last year. You don't go from multiple premiership winning coach to 'myth' in less than 24 months.

Bennett is no messiah, but to turn our side around, without our highest paid player/captain, with a rookie halfback and a prop rotation that has often consisted of an edge backrower and a rookie in Tets then he is hardly a myth.

Roberts, Kev, Rochow, Tets are all on the way up. You can't keep 'em all.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

Tets took a giant step backwards last Sat night. I think his grade career has one more bad game left in it before he gets the punt.

 

[Silent Knight]

Tets took a giant step backwards last Sat night. I think his grade career has one more bad game left in it before he gets the punt.

Sadly I have to agree with this. I thought when Tets was promoted to the starting squad after Snowden went down injured that he would take the opportunity and run with it. But to be perfectly honest I think Rochow has looked more like a future first grader than Tets has over the past month. His misreads in defence have cost us in some games. It's disappointing because I rated him when he debuted under Stone last year.

Still I'm hoping he might be able to turn it around and Wayne might consider offering him an incentive based contract so he can at least continue to work on his development.

 

[Burwood]

Tets clearly doesn't have the confidence of Bennett. He even stated publicly a couple of weeks ago that he took Tets off the field for the entire 2nd half because it was a close game and he was likely to cost the side a win.

Compare that to Rochow who last week played big minutes in the 2nd half while, again, Tets was sitting on the bench watching Newcastle try to claw their way back into the match.

 

[juniorknight]

Again who has WB improved?

 

[Silent Knight]

Again who has WB improved?

Mullen, Roberts, Gagai, K. Naqaima, Mason, Houston, Rochow, McKinnon IMO.