We can't deny it - there is a problem in Sydney

[j0nesy]

Eight players in the Storm's U20's squad are locals and there are a number of WA players in the NRL already, despite WA not even having a professional team.

That's good to know, I was genuine when I asked that question. I'd love to see a team established in Perth, as long as it came along with significant and committed junior development in WA.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Given the damage our band has just suffered with gas and sbw going lets go and piss off thousands and thousands of people who actually do love and support the game.

People talk about it would mean more money if there was less clubs. Rubbish. Who says that say that bloke who props up the eagles would give money to league if we killed them off? Would Rusty invest in league if we cut souths?

Why ruin your best asset in this war? If league loses ownership of sydney then they are very f**ked.

Well said Special K.

It seems rather than growing the game people would rather cut and run. What happens in 5-10 years if things are still not right? Cut another two?

No wonder why league is seen as dumb.

Can someone give me some FACTS on crowd numbers in Sydney this year in relation to other seasons.


Stop believing ALL THE CRAP spewed out by the media, it's just creating hysteria.

This is what is wrong with league:

- News Ltd involvement resulting in self interested decision making.

- lack of a plan for the next 5-10 years eg. future growth etc

- NO LEADERSHIP in the best interests of the game

It's not because there are too many teams in Sydney:roll:

 

[blaine train]

This is absolutely hilarious. Let me get this straight, not only do some of you want to keep all of the Sydney teams, you want to increase the teams in the competition at the same time? So you don't alientate Sydney supporters?

Sorry, but if the game wants to grow then some tough decisions are going to have to be made and some hearts are going to have to be broken. I'm sure there were some people who thought the game wouldn't be the same without Newtown.

This small minded attitude that Sydney teams are sacred is what will see AFL widen the gap between our and their code and also see football soon catch up. It's not enough to keep dragging the chain to avoid the tough decisions as it is not tenable for a competition to carry 3-4 unprofitable teams in Sydney. There's not much these teams can do to change that as there is only a limited amount of sponsorship money in Sydney, crowds are still extremely poor and leagues clubs don't have the clout they used to.

It's time for fans to wake up and accept change. We've got to stop thinking in the short term but how strong our code will be in twenty years. If that means more relocations and mergers, I'm all for it.

 

[TV Ted Ellery]

We merged, it's time other underperforming Sydney clubs make a similar decision.

Parramatta/ Penrith

Roosters/ Souths

etc...

 

[griff]

This is absolutely hilarious. Let me get this straight, not only do some of you want to keep all of the Sydney teams, you want to increase the teams in the competition at the same time? So you don't alientate Sydney supporters?

Sorry, but if the game wants to grow then some tough decisions are going to have to be made and some hearts are going to have to be broken. I'm sure there were some people who thought the game wouldn't be the same without Newtown.

This small minded attitude that Sydney teams are sacred is what will see AFL widen the gap between our and their code and also see football soon catch up. It's not enough to keep dragging the chain to avoid the tough decisions as it is not tenable for a competition to carry 3-4 unprofitable teams in Sydney. There's not much these teams can do to change that as there is only a limited amount of sponsorship money in Sydney, crowds are still extremely poor and leagues clubs don't have the clout they used to.

It's time for fans to wake up and accept change. We've got to stop thinking in the short term but how strong our code will be in twenty years. If that means more relocations and mergers, I'm all for it.

People don't want to keep Sydney teams because they are sacred, they want to keep Sydney teams because it makes business sense.

All relocations and mergers would do is boost our competitors and alienate our supporters. This doesn't make sense and does nothing to grow the game.

 

[Ziggy the God]

I like anyone else, wants to see League prosper.

That said, Souths supporters can certainly tell you what it is like when your team is cut.

I am a Souths supporter first and foremost, my club is cut/merged/re-located and it is no longer Souths.

No longer Souths for me means that I no longer have a team, so why am I going to buy a season pass each year or stay a member?

That is how it is, like it or lump it.

Maybe if some of you whingers calling for teams to be culled actually went to games or financially got behind your teams rather than typing on here like internet heroes, I may listen.

Until then, f**k off with your AFL driven propoganda.

Cheers

 

[Coaster]

Just a question, flame me if you like.

Would you Sydney supporters, Support a Sydney rep side if they played in a different comp?

Lets say the NSWRL was back, and all teams in sydney got a chance to come back into the top grade. Yet there was a different comp with City sides in it, and there was a Sydney City team, would you support them on top of your own team?

2 comps
1st comp NSWRL with
Bulldogs
Sharks
Stg
Illawarra
Parramata
Penrith
Tigers
Magpies
Manly
Roosters
Bunnies
Norths
Newtown

2nd comp ARL
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Newcastle
Canberra
Perth
North Queensland
Auckland
Christchurch
Melbourne
Central Coast
Sydney
Sunshine Coast
Adeliade

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Just a question, flame me if you like.

Would you Sydney supporters, Support a Sydney rep side if they played in a different comp?

Lets say the NSWRL was back, and all teams in sydney got a chance to come back into the top grade. Yet there was a different comp with City sides in it, and there was a Sydney City team, would you support them on top of your own team?

2 comps
1st comp NSWRL with
Bulldogs
Sharks
Stg
Illawarra
Parramata
Penrith
Tigers
Magpies
Manly
Roosters
Bunnies
Norths
Newtown

2nd comp ARL
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Newcastle
Canberra
Perth
North Queensland
Auckland
Christchurch
Melbourne
Central Coast
Sydney
Sunshine Coast
Adeliade

It mght have good intentions but all it'd do is basically turn into what we have now (NRL and NSW Cup) but with the national league only having one Sydney team. Wouldn't work.

 

[Miller was a legend]

only issue I see with that suggestion is that I suspect there would still be insufficent funding to keep the NSWRL clubs operational or do you suggest the ARL will have to fund them from the money made in the suggested new competition? If so, we would probably still end up with financial constraints.

With funding pretty much slashed from pokie tax etc many of these clubs would disappear. The cream of players moving to your suggested competition would result in the Sydney clubs only becoming the current NSW cup Competition and given the financial commitments to their infrastructure etc they will not survive. You would be seeing fans move away to support other codes or none at all. The suggestion looks good but probably creates even more issues than mergers etc as clubs would still disappear (eg manly and Souths private backers would certainly be lost)

One NRL club in Sydney with what, one game a fortnight or month with maybe 40,000 attending is a far cry from the combined attendance at all Sydney clubs.

 

[LeagueXIII]

This small minded attitude that Sydney teams are sacred is what will see AFL widen the gap between our and their code and also see football soon catch up. It's not enough to keep dragging the chain to avoid the tough decisions as it is not tenable for a competition to carry 3-4 unprofitable teams in Sydney. There's not much these teams can do to change that as there is only a limited amount of sponsorship money in Sydney, crowds are still extremely poor and leagues clubs don't have the clout they used to.

Please tell me who the unprofitable clubs are? Give some research or proof.

If there isn't enough sponsorship money why are the AFL putting another team here? I'll tell you because like any good business they try to grow it.

Unlike the idiots in RL who say "it's too hard".

By claiming keeping Sydney clubs helps soccer and AFL, which is absolute BS, by moving them and kicking them out it is actually helping other codes.

Have you forgotten the SL war already?

 

[Coaster]

It mght have good intentions but all it'd do is basically turn into what we have now (NRL and NSW Cup) but with the national league only having one Sydney team. Wouldn't work.

Would sydney people not follow a sydney based rep side? Queensland have no problem following wynum ect and then also following a team like broncos.

 

[PJ]

It mght have good intentions but all it'd do is basically turn into what we have now (NRL and NSW Cup) but with the national league only having one Sydney team. Wouldn't work.

I Disagree, I think something like this could work.

Big difference is that the second tier Sydney comp would get television and radio coverage and hence also get decent revenue.

Biggest problem I could see would be games in the second division (Sydney comp) having higher crowds and bigger ratings.

People also seem to think that just putting a team somewhere means that a national comp would be a success. The Storm have been in for what, nearly 10 years, won 2 comps and still have very average crowds, and little interest in bleak city. Could the game support this also happening in say Adelaide, Perth and Wellington?

 

[Miller was a legend]

Would sydney people not follow a sydney based rep side? Queensland have no problem following wynum ect and then also following a team like broncos.

It's not the team wouldn't be supported Coaster. The issues are bigger than just copying the Qld comp. What is being suggested will create an environment where Sydney fans of the game would be more open to be enticed to other codes, The Sydney clubs would surely start to fold and a bigger mess than we see now would result.

The suggestion may well take the form of a long term strategic plan but I don't ever see it being only one team in Sydney. It certainly will never be a simple plan to implement.

 

[RL1908]

Just a question, flame me if you like.

Would you Sydney supporters, Support a Sydney rep side if they played in a different comp?

I haven't thought about this too far, but it might be easier to argue a structure that provides greater opportunity for more clubs and/or private owners to get into the RL party via something like this....

Australasia RL Comp (Feb - June): a 14 team comp (13 rounds) with play-offs - Sydney teams (x 2), Brisbane teams (x 2), Nth Qld, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Canberra, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, NZ teams (2), plus 1 other club (e.g. PNG/NT).

NSW/QLD RL Comp: (June - Oct, including play-offs & a traditional arvo' Grand Final) - structure it however you like into conferences, divisions, promo/relegation, salary cap (or none), finals format, and/or as few/many clubs as you want, but have all the "traditional" clubs (who might have more chance of funding a shorter season) and/or anyone else that wants to form and fund a club (private ownership and/or Leagues Club)....

NSW: Easts, Souths, Norths (Gosford), Newc, Manly, Canterbury, Illawarra, St George, Parra, Penrith, Wests, Balmain, NSW Country, Canberra, Newtown.

QLD: Current Qld Cup teams, Titans, Nth Qld Cowboys, old Brisbane comp clubs, new clubs (incl. private ownership).

Every club gets to stay alive under the above.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

I haven't thought about this too far, but it might be easier to argue a structure that provides greater opportunity for more clubs and/or private owners to get into the RL party via something like this....

Australasia RL Comp (Feb - June): a 14 team comp (13 rounds) with play-offs - Sydney teams (x 2), Brisbane teams (x 2), Nth Qld, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Canberra, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, NZ teams (2), plus 1 other club (e.g. PNG/NT).

NSW/QLD RL Comp: (June - Oct, including play-offs & a traditional arvo' Grand Final) - structure it however you like into conferences, divisions, promo/relegation, salary cap (or none), finals format, and/or as few/many clubs as you want, but have all the "traditional" clubs (who might have more chance of funding a shorter season) and/or anyone else that wants to form and fund a club (private ownership and/or Leagues Club)....

NSW: Easts, Souths, Norths (Gosford), Newc, Manly, Canterbury, Illawarra, St George, Parra, Penrith, Wests, Balmain, NSW Country, Canberra, Newtown.

QLD: Current Qld Cup teams, Titans, Nth Qld Cowboys, old Brisbane comp clubs, new clubs (incl. private ownership).

Every club gets to stay alive under the above.

Personally, I would love a Sydney/NSW conference.

 

[Coaster]

I haven't thought about this too far, but it might be easier to argue a structure that provides greater opportunity for more clubs and/or private owners to get into the RL party via something like this....

Australasia RL Comp (Feb - June): a 14 team comp (13 rounds) with play-offs - Sydney teams (x 2), Brisbane teams (x 2), Nth Qld, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Canberra, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, NZ teams (2), plus 1 other club (e.g. PNG/NT).

NSW/QLD RL Comp: (June - Oct, including play-offs & a traditional arvo' Grand Final) - structure it however you like into conferences, divisions, promo/relegation, salary cap (or none), finals format, and/or as few/many clubs as you want, but have all the "traditional" clubs (who might have more chance of funding a shorter season) and/or anyone else that wants to form and fund a club (private ownership and/or Leagues Club)....

NSW: Easts, Souths, Norths (Gosford), Newc, Manly, Canterbury, Illawarra, St George, Parra, Penrith, Wests, Balmain, NSW Country, Canberra, Newtown.

QLD: Current Qld Cup teams, Titans, Nth Qld Cowboys, old Brisbane comp clubs, new clubs (incl. private ownership).

Every club gets to stay alive under the above.

I suggested similar in another thread yesterday "Is the comp to long" and thought if we had 2 shorter comps blending through each other similar to what the ESL has, would maybe help solve issues with expansion, and also would create another finals series to sell the game. There would be in eccence a longer RL calendar, but would keep teams alive longer in each comp, and would give us a chance to hedge our bets on Tv income and sponsers.

Also with what i mentioned in this thread, there could be more then 1 sydney team, say Sydney City, and Sydney West or along those lines. something like this

NRL 1. Brisbane
2. Gold Coast
3. Newcastle
4. Canberra
5. Melbourne
6. Sunshine Coast
7. North Queensland
8. Central Coast
9. Auckland
10 Christchurch
11 Perth
12 Adeliade
13 Sydney City
14 Sydney West

NSWRL
1. Canterbury
2. Parramatta
3. StGeorge
4. Illawarra
5. Manly
6. Souths
7. Roosters
8. Balmain
9. Wests magpies
10 Newtown
11 Penrith
12 Bulldogs
13 Sharks
14 Norths

QRL
1. Wynum
2. Norths Devils
3. Wests
4. Burleigh Bears
5. Ipswich Jets
6. North Power
7. Redcliff Dolphins
8. Easts Tigers
9. Mackay Cutters
10 Central Comets
11Tweed Heads Seagulls
12 Souths Logan Magpies

all ran and controlled by the ARL, with expansion clubs to have a min of 500k population and private backing into areas like PNG, and Darwin in 5-7 years.

Each competetion have different TV deals, QRL with ABC, NSWRL with 9, and NRL with Fox and 7/10

State of Origin sold seperatly to highest bidder, including overseas contracts.

Test match series like Tri Nations each year, sold seperatly

 

[Special K]

Would sydney people not follow a sydney based rep side? Queensland have no problem following wynum ect and then also following a team like broncos.

so for someone like me it would mean

watch my team get kicked out, then get to see guys like greg bird and paul gallen playing for other clubs after watching them come from nothing through the ranks to play for nsw and aus.

But get to watch a bunch of nuffies play in the sydney comp in a sharks jersey?

One sydney team? lol.

Also when there isnt a direct path for kids to follow (ie toyota cup, nsw cup, nrl) it makes it harder for a club to produce talented kids or keep them. Look at the central coast team before they got a link with the storm. Think of all the kids who would lose their nrl team they support and now not have the chance to play for them. Could force more kids to play other codes.

Who would pay for the development of these kids? Would Parra pump millions into developing kids for nothing? So they could dominate a sh*tty local comp? No way!

Plus what players want to go and move to SA when they have a million dollar house in Bondi? Wouldn't that just make guys like Mason go to france or the ESL?

Sydney needs to be supported not broken down further. You hurt the sydney market ten years ago and it nearly ripped our game apart. Why risk it again? Do you really think sydney can take that again when AFL is pumping millions in and union is trying everything and anything for a piece of the market. Put a team in perth or whatever yeah expand the game but do it correctly and not at the expense of the people who have supported the game to the point it is at today (aren't crowds at a high atm?).

 

[RL1908]

I suggested similar in another thread yesterday "Is the comp to long" and thought if we had 2 shorter comps blending through each other similar to what the ESL has, would maybe help solve issues with expansion, and also would create another finals series to sell the game. There would be in eccence a longer RL calendar, but would keep teams alive longer in each comp, and would give us a chance to hedge our bets on Tv income and sponsers. Also with what i mentioned in this thread, there could be more then 1 sydney team, say Sydney City, and Sydney West or along those lines. something like this NRL 1. Brisbane 2. Gold Coast 3. Newcastle 4. Canberra 5. Melbourne 6. Sunshine Coast 7. North Queensland 8. Central Coast 9. Auckland 10 Christchurch 11 Perth 12 Adeliade 13 Sydney City 14 Sydney West NSWRL 1. Canterbury 2. Parramatta 3. StGeorge 4. Illawarra 5. Manly 6. Souths 7. Roosters 8. Balmain 9. Wests magpies 10 Newtown 11 Penrith 12 Bulldogs 13 Sharks 14 Norths QRL 1. Wynum 2. Norths Devils 3. Wests 4. Burleigh Bears 5. Ipswich Jets 6. North Power 7. Redcliff Dolphins 8. Easts Tigers 9. Mackay Cutters 10 Central Comets 11Tweed Heads Seagulls 12 Souths Logan Magpies all ran and controlled by the ARL, with expansion clubs to have a min of 500k population and private backing into areas like PNG, and Darwin in 5-7 years. Each competetion have different TV deals, QRL with ABC, NSWRL with 9, and NRL with Fox and 7/10 State of Origin sold seperatly to highest bidder, including overseas contracts. Test match series like Tri Nations each year, sold seperatly

I'm tending to agree, provided the 2 comps don't overlap when they are played - you really need the same elite players involved in both comps.

But, with more clubs, private owners & sponsors all allowed to get involved (at a level that suits their capacity), the so called "pie" should be larger overall.

Players would also have 2 contracts, and no doubt the national "super" comp would allow for more 3rd party agreements etc.

 

[Miller was a legend]

lol sounds like superleague and ARL but at different times of the year. maybe AFL is doing it wrong then. Get the players into just 2 melbourne teams and beef up the rest of the country. I think many AFL melbourne fans would be up in arms and not support the clubs.

Also, hasn't it been suggested our elite players are getting too much footy. If they are expected to play in two comps (in order to keep interest in the two comps, plus origin, plus play for Australia I don;t think they could do it. One or the other comp would have to suffer the loss of the elite players. Young players coming through would not have the opportunity to play with them and against them which might suggest the standard of players coming through could suffer.

Don't get me wrong I think these debates are healthy and positive.

I do think expansion is definitely needed and perhaps over time reduction in Sydney teams if they cannot meet pre defined criteria within pre define timetables.

Yes sounds a little like super league plan for 2009.

Just don;t bring back that ugly big 'S' on the jersey's please!!

 

[Beavers Headgear]

1 thing that constantly gets brought up is a 2nd NZ team, and there is no way it should happen imo

We can't even get 1 side right over here at the mo, other places are far more worthy of a 2nd. Warriors had another crowd below 10,000 today, granted the weather was sh*t, but i think that is 4-5 in a row now that were 4 figures