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West Coast - $4 million profit!

CyberKev

Moderator
Staff member
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2,323
Just in case the VIC-based clubs weren't already acutely aware of the difficulty associated with competing off-field with rival clubs that are not restricted by a saturated Melbourne market, we now have news of West Coast returning a $4 million profit for 2005!

The club is also talking of modifying Subiaco to allow for increased seating and subsequent extra memberships (given that the club is currently restricted to 43,000 members due to that being the number of seats they can fill).

When a $1 million profit is still considered an enormous performance by VIC-based clubs, and annual losses remain common, its difficult to see non-VIC powerhouses like West Coast & Adelaide falling too far in the future.
 

Rustay

Juniors
Messages
1,259
Sweet :D

Hope they do increase Subiaco, id love to be able to get a membership which is a bit difficult atm.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
Puts the whinging about the Competitive Balance Fund into perspective ... Is it actually doing any harm whatsoever to the clubs that can essentially print money?


The West Coast example says no.


I still think we are in for interesting times though.


North Melbourne cannot possibly survive in Melbourne as a stand alone entity, they have absoloutely no fans (25k to a final is utterly disgraceful) and after playing in 10 prelim finals (or better) in a row - They are still a financial basketcase. (I shake my head in disgust at them every time i think about that - Imagine Richmond's membership if we could perform on the field like that)

However, I see the need for one more team to be dropped, common sense would tell you the Western Bulldogs or Melbourne (Based on Financial performance) - However, the Dogs now cover a massive region of Melbourne, and I strongly beleive an extended stay in the top 8/premiership will ignite the potential of this club. Melbourne - Will the AFL ever not have a team called Melbourne in the comp? I seriously doubt it.

That leaves Richmond and Hawthorn in the hot seat ... & at both clubs, I can not see any possibility whatsoever that the members would agree to a merger. Both sets of members have had their chance in the past and chose to keep their clubs alive.

Interesting times ahead.
 

CyberKev

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Staff member
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2,323
meltiger said:
Puts the whinging about the Competitive Balance Fund into perspective ... Is it actually doing any harm whatsoever to the clubs that can essentially print money?

Indeed.

People who push a rampant capitalist approach to elite sport miss the point. Competition for the AFL is not a means to the product, but rather it is the product itself. The AFL understands that to have a vibrant product it needs a strong and health grouping of clubs across the board, given the attachment of so many fans to their particular club and the traditions those clubs espouse.

This is why the AFL has steps in place to try to promote a degree of equillibrium across the competition. As West Coast clearly illustrates, it is hardly an acute form of socialism, given that certain clubs will always perform more strongly off the park than others which, in turn, will help with their strength on the park.

In essence, the AFL push for equillibrium can only do so much for the less well to do clubs, particularly when equalisation measures (such as they are) cannot ensure sound management priniciples at individual clubs, nor can they override intangibles, such as pure dumb sh*thouse luck.

At any rate, sides like Adelaide & West Coast may complain about the AFL's approach to the VIC-based clubs, but they need bear in mind that the strength of the competition can be largely traced to the good will & potency of the AFL brand which, in turn, has been predominantly derived from a century of support for the VIC-based clubs.


meltiger said:
North Melbourne cannot possibly survive in Melbourne as a stand alone entity, they have absoloutely no fans (25k to a final is utterly disgraceful) and after playing in 10 prelim finals (or better) in a row - They are still a financial basketcase. (I shake my head in disgust at them every time i think about that - Imagine Richmond's membership if we could perform on the field like that)

Despite my comments above, it would appear that some sort of rationalisation will need to occur among the VIC-based sides. The Kangaroos would be top of such a list. I've long admired the Kangaroos because in the past they've been the flagship, no-holds barred, risk takers and innovators of the competition, but -- alas -- those days are gone.

Their recent switch to a full-on top-up mode in the hope of doing a Steven Bradbury on the competition, shows how far they've diverged from the bold, go-getting unit of the 70s through 90s. They've effectively admitted to a willingness to keep themselves "middle of the road", and are essentially removing themselves and their fans from future flag ambition. Their ongoing financial woes now preoccupy them more than on-field performances, and they fear failure too much to aggressively chase success.

meltiger said:
However, I see the need for one more team to be dropped, common sense would tell you the Western Bulldogs or Melbourne (Based on Financial performance) - However, the Dogs now cover a massive region of Melbourne, and I strongly beleive an extended stay in the top 8/premiership will ignite the potential of this club. Melbourne - Will the AFL ever not have a team called Melbourne in the comp? I seriously doubt it.

Melbourne are also in real trouble. So are the Bulldogs, although enthusiasm surrounding their young side is holding the wolves at bay at the moment. The bigger problem for the Bulldogs is that their youth support (small to begin with) has been decimated across the 80s & 90s by Essendon. It will take a sustained run of success (which is anything but guaranteed) to boost this flagging support base and, even then, the true bounty will not be accessible for 10-15 years afterward, when the new breed of young fans are able to step up to adulthood and provide much needed adult membership support to the club.

meltiger said:
That leaves Richmond and Hawthorn in the hot seat ... & at both clubs, I can not see any possibility whatsoever that the members would agree to a merger. Both sets of members have had their chance in the past and chose to keep their clubs alive.

Yes.

Richmond have had hard years, but given their success during the late 60s and 70s, they were able to garner sufficient flow on support to see the side through the worst of it. Hawthorn finds itself relying largely on the children of the 70s & 80s to see it through a grim ten+ years of results. This goodwill is beginning to wear thin...

Both clubs would, I suspect, go to the wall rather than merge, although Hawthorn may not be totally impartial to a relocation (if required).

Carlton also has plenty of problems, although it would be delighted by its membership figures, which -- again -- highlight the flow on to come out of the club's success during the 70s & 80s.

Carlton is more poorly situated than either Hawthorn or Richmond right now, but -- if the sh*t were to go down in Grenada -- can call upon significantly greater high level financial backing from its reservoir of bluebloods.
 

Hoops

Juniors
Messages
270
As far as rationalising Vic teams, This is how I would do it.

Merge the kangaroos and Western Bulldogs, Footscray and North Melbourne are basically next door to each other, (North Melbourne must of got its name when the ports were considered the centre of the city because now days it is more west than north)
Although I agree the sucessful Essendon of the last 25 years has drawn most of the support from the western suburbs the more southern and working class areas from hoppers crossing, altona - footscray should be where the "Western Kangaroos" should concentrate on. with a large ethnic community becoming 2nd & 3rd generartion making them ripe for the picking.

As for guernsey, perhaps vertical Blue and white stripes with a red Horizontal stripe across the front and have them based at the newly refurbished Whitten Oval.

I would also relocate the Demons to the Gold Coast play out of Carrara, Call them Queensland Or South Queensland Sharks (Gold Coast or Southport limits the support base somewhat) and keep the red and Blue Guernseys.

This leaves a spot open for another "new" NSW team in the future.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
Hoops said:
As far as rationalising Vic teams, This is how I would do it.

Merge the kangaroos and Western Bulldogs, Footscray and North Melbourne are basically next door to each other, (North Melbourne must of got its name when the ports were considered the centre of the city because now days it is more west than north)
Although I agree the sucessful Essendon of the last 25 years has drawn most of the support from the western suburbs the more southern and working class areas from hoppers crossing, altona - footscray should be where the "Western Kangaroos" should concentrate on. with a large ethnic community becoming 2nd & 3rd generartion making them ripe for the picking.

As for guernsey, perhaps vertical Blue and white stripes with a red Horizontal stripe across the front and have them based at the newly refurbished Whitten Oval.

I would also relocate the Demons to the Gold Coast play out of Carrara, Call them Queensland Or South Queensland Sharks (Gold Coast or Southport limits the support base somewhat) and keep the red and Blue Guernseys.

This leaves a spot open for another "new" NSW team in the future.

Whilst I am not neccesarily sold on forcing North and Footscray to merge, I tend to agree with the first bolded comments you make here.

I live in Altona and I can certainly atest to the fact that the Doggies very much are the local side and I was actually suprised this year at the lack of support for other teams in the area. They have a strong localised following that no other club (Apart from St Kilda to an extent in the Sth East - Although that has been slowly dropping since they stopped playing at Moorabbin.) in Melbourne can contend with in the modern era.

With regards to the second bolded comment, I honestly believe that is a long term pipe dream that will never come to fruition. We are better off looking to go back to the Gold Coast for our next expansion.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,785
as long as no one touches Geelong, I dont really care about other merges

one team towns like Perth will always do well, although Geelong is much smaller than Perth

I think GC should be the next AFL team, half of f**king Victoria has moved up here, so it would have plenty of players to draw from and games would be well attended
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
Twizzle said:
as long as no one touches Geelong, I dont really care about other merges

one team towns like Perth will always do well, although Geelong is much smaller than Perth

I think GC should be the next AFL team, half of f**king Victoria has moved up here, so it would have plenty of players to draw from and games would be well attended

I doubt there is any worry over Geelong, other than playing a few matches in Melbourne every year.


Out of debt and with a good team on the park, the Cats are in a good position at the present.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,785
yeh, they had a good fan base in Melbourne too, when I lived down there
 

meltiger

First Grade
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6,268
Twizzle said:
yeh, they had a good fan base in Melbourne too, when I lived down there

I always thought the principle of playing in Melbourne was to increase their Melbourne base (Plus the extra gate takings of at least twice as many away fans attending)
 

In-goal

Bench
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3,523
It's funny how the Leagues least succesful club St.Kilda still managers to gain large support, the Roos and Dogs have in there time in the VFL/AFL have far outshone the saints yet there support is neglegent on match days.

The St.Kilda FC are a side which represented greater SE Melbourne for a long time at Moorabin, but it dosen't mean everyone there backs them, how if anyone knows have they been able to remain popular when big Clubs like Carlton and Essendon have always enjoyed success?
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
In-goal said:
The St.Kilda FC are a side which represented greater SE Melbourne for a long time at Moorabin, but it dosen't mean everyone there backs them

Actually ... The region largely does support them.

Especially the Jewish wing between East St Kilda and Brighton.

Footscray and North Melbourne largely have had to compete with Essendon on a localised basis - This is the reason they are such small clubs, especially North Melbourne as they are essentially baby Essendon.

St Kilda haven't always had large support - When losing they have a credible amount of supporters (In comparison to other clubs) who are loyal - When winning, they have a bandwagon as big as anyones.
 

GBT2

Juniors
Messages
65
So St Kilda are the Spurs or Ajax of the AFL?

You learn summat every day. Cheers meltiger. :cool:
 
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10,949
Re Saints: LOL Victorians Love their underdogs. :D

Why North Melbourne ain't got a larger following though is strange though.
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
UndertakerMike said:
Re Saints: LOL Victorians Love their underdogs. :D

Why North Melbourne ain't got a larger following though is strange though.

Because they are nothing but baby Essendon. Growing up in the North West, who are you going to support? Essendon like everyone else in the region? Or North Melbourne?

You're going to choose Essendon just like all your mates.
 

Moffo

Referee
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23,986
good profit for a footy team, but still, for an organisation with such a high profile you'd think they could do more. I know if i were a CEO i wouldn't want to be in charge of a footy team!
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
CyberKev said:
As the Ronan Keating song goes...

"You say it best, when you say nothing at all..."

:p

lol

I was bagging RL clubs such os the Dogs and their over reliance on human suffering for their existence (Poker Machines) ... Decided that wasn't appropriate for the AFL forum and if I strongly feel the need to do so should head over to TFC lol
 

Moffo

Referee
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23,986
yes but meltiger i was talking about an AFL club, why the need to bring RL into it?
 

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