Weststigers Wasteland 💩

[Nutz]

Tightening gun laws is the cowards way out, then you don't have to fix the Issue. People who will do crazy stuff like this won't be stopped by not being able to get legal guns.

Depends what is really meant by tightening guns laws gordy.
My daughter and son in laws have guns and follow the rules.

I just read the guidelines to gun ownership and it seems ok.
I think if there is a way for a nutter to get his hands on a gun and kill he's going to find a way.
Menal health and gun ownership is something I'd like to look into further.
Do we ban PTSD or Severe Depressive Disorder victims from holding a gun licence or do we control it better, eg stronger supervision at a firing range, can't transport firearms etc.
Surely there were red flags with this last shooting episode too.

 

[TooheysNew]

You posted that "he was guessing", is that not making a claim?

Did he provide facts? Proof of any kind?

 

[Tigerm]

Did he provide facts? Proof of any kind?

I was commenting on your claim, not his.

 

[macnaz]

Bali 2002- 202 dead 209 injured. Hmm no guns

 

[Nutz]

Bali 2002- 202 dead 209 injured. Hmm no guns

Do you want to introduce bomb control macca
I get where your coming from.
Bombs are just big guns that can be concealed. They can be home made without a licence. That’s also a completely different threat category.
Australia’s gun laws wasn't designed to stop terrorism like Bali.
They were designed to stop impulsive killings, domestic violence deaths, mass shootings by individuals, and
suicide by firearm.
I said before Macca that the rate of these shootings recently would increase naturally as our population increased. However, not as much as one thinks.....see at the end of this post for comparisons.
Also when our immigration of citizens who are in conflict overseas, continues to increase, tension will also increase here.
What we as a nation should and can do here in Australia, is to have a zero tolerance for senseless deaths of women and children and of course men who can't defend themselves and shouldn't have to. From either side of warring countries here and abroad.
We should not allow hate campaigns towards others spill out onto our peaceful streets and bring the conflict here. Peacefully protest yes.
As Tiger05 stated earlier our gun control is pretty good (compared to other countries) but it may need revisiting and ammended.
Since the Port Arthur massacre (which was the catalyst for our buy back and gun control) there hasn't been regular episodes, even daily like in the US, of impulsive killings, domestic violence deaths, mass shootings by individuals, and suicides by firearm.
Interestingly, here is how we compare to the US with annual death rates from firearms, research done by the United States Studies Centre and https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/03/05/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-us/

United States (2023)
~13.7 gun deaths per 100,000 people (including suicides, homicides, accidents, and legal intervention). Which equates to 128 gun deaths daily

Australia (recent comparable years)
Approximately 0.90 gun deaths per 100,000 people.
Which equates to .6 gun deaths daily

Per capita, the US experiences 16× more gun deaths per day than Australia.

Our gun control hasn't been all that bad but imo I don't think in the past it's been tested as frequently as it has been recently due to religious radicals, political and racial indifferences, and domestic violence.
This last paragraph is just my opinion.
We must respect others...stop the abuse, stop the violence, and increase tolerance.

 

[Tiger05]

Bali 2002- 202 dead 209 injured. Hmm no guns

Bondi massacre, Desi Freeman & those Queensland nutters who killed cops.

All guns. All extremists with access to guns.

Ethics require action here.

 

[Tiger05]

Per capita, the US experiences 16× more gun deaths per day than Australia.

The data is extremely clear cut. Guns make you considerably less safe.

Let's be really clear about this. We have a culture of extremism amongst a certain demographic of society. It is definitely not just Muslims at all. Far right terrorism is the leading cause of terrorism in America and we've seen conspiracy theorists/sovereign citizens/anti-vaxxers do the same thing here.

Extremists should never have access to guns legally. This does not mean every extremist will commit a terrorist action but this is one of the key criteria of the people who commit these actions. It's part of the puzzle.

I assume everyone finds these deaths abhorrent and wants to take action. The best single action to take is to tighten our gun laws again to try and limit these acts of terrorism going forward.

Humanist ethics over tribalism.

 

[macnaz]

"Far right terrorism is the leading cause of terrorism in America "
Absolute bullshit!
Plenty of white nutters shooting up schools and things but not in the name of right wing conservative thoughts.

 

[Tiger05]

"Far right terrorism is the leading cause of terrorism in America "
Absolute bullshit!
Plenty of white nutters shooting up schools and things but not in the name of right wing conservative thoughts.

That was my understanding and I fact checked it. It's 100% correct.

If we discussing issues in good faith I think there are some principles that we should follow. Evidence matters. If you make mistake it's cool. If your ethics need refinement it's cool. Adjusting isn't the problem. Sticking to beliefs that the evidence or ethics prove to be incorrect have to be adjusted. If there is no adjustment in beliefs when they are clearly wrong then what is the point. I'll add this applies to me as well. I made a slight ethical mistake earlier and I accept that.

 

[macnaz]

Anyway the point is that tougher gun laws will contribute to a safer society. But tackling hatred and those who teach and promote it needs to be addressed 1st and foremost to prevent further incidents going forward. Hate will always find a way of causing destruction, with or without guns.

 

[macnaz]

That was my understanding and I fact checked it. It's 100% correct.

If we discussing issues in good faith I think there are some principles that we should follow. Evidence matters. If you make mistake it's cool. If your ethics need refinement it's cool. Adjusting isn't the problem. Sticking to beliefs that the evidence or ethics prove to be incorrect have to be adjusted. If there is no adjustment in beliefs when they are clearly wrong then what is the point. I'll add this applies to me as well. I made a slight ethical mistake earlier and I accept that.

Shows how skewed fact checkers are unfortunately.

 

[Tiger05]

Shows how skewed fact checkers are unfortunately.

This is hilarious. I hate everything that tells me I'm wrong.

You crack me up dude.

 

[macnaz]

You do u 05

 

[Tigerm]

Anyway the point is that tougher gun laws will contribute to a safer society. But tackling hatred and those who teach and promote it needs to be addressed 1st and foremost to prevent further incidents going forward. Hate will always find a way of causing destruction, with or without guns.

The quest that needs to be answered is, how did known terror suspects get there hands on weapons.
It was said that the younger one, was firing off bullets like a pro and was suspected to be in Indonesia for nearly a month?

 

[Tiger05]

Anyway the point is that tougher gun laws will contribute to a safer society. But tackling hatred and those who teach and promote it needs to be addressed 1st and foremost to prevent further incidents going forward. Hate will always find a way of causing destruction, with or without guns.

Awesome start.

I'll try and express my understanding about this topic because I think it's really complex.

Gun control is the most powerful and easiest lever to minimize these actions. It can have the biggest impact with the least amount of action required.

These actions though arise out of extremist ideologies. People who can't see nuance. Tribalism. If you get enough people who feel under threat and believe action has to be taken because their tribe is under attack and opportunity arises these events will occur.

It's not all of these people but extremists produce terrorists.

How do we dial the temperature down ? How do we make people see nuance ? How do we stop extremist beliefs ?

I have real problems with the information systems today but I don't know how you can censor information. How would you censor information ? How would you push people start to use high quality evidence ? What would constitute high quality evidence to you ? How do you fix it ? Guns are the easy target. What about the harder stuff ?

 

[macnaz]

For starters there is plenty of evidence of muslim clerics ranting hate and death on media platforms and the authorities have failed to prosecute a single one.
Who knows what else is being preached in factory warehouses and other makeshift mosques around our country.

 

[WA Tiger]

Those guys owning 6 legal high powered rifles is baffling.. how did they not get monitored and caught when they went to southern Philippines for 3 months in the hot bed of jihad alkaida training .. then returned and struck.... they were on the watch list at one point then taken off?? ..

 

[Tiger05]

For starters there is plenty of evidence of muslim clerics ranting hate and death on media platforms and the authorities have failed to prosecute a single one.
Who knows what else is being preached in factory warehouses and other makeshift mosques around our country.

How do you police extreme rhetoric ? My opinion is this is basically impossible but I'd love to know how you do it.

Do we have the systems in place to minimize these events ?

My impression is that we aren't very aware of how much damage extremists plus guns are.

Were the cops killed in the Wieambilla shooting aware those people were extremists and had access to guns ? The same with Desi Freeman situation. The Bondi mass shooting incident appears that these people were known to have extremist viewpoints and they had access to guns.

It doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Nutz]

How do you police extreme rhetoric ? My opinion is this is basically impossible but I'd love to know how you do it.

Do we have the systems in place to minimize these events ?

My impression is that we aren't very aware of how much damage extremists plus guns are.

Were the cops killed in the Wieambilla shooting aware those people were extremists and had access to guns ? The same with Desi Freeman situation. The Bondi mass shooting incident appears that these people were known to have extremist viewpoints and they had access to guns.

It doesn't feel right to me.

On Saturday 13 April 2024, 40-year-old Joel Cauchi stabbed and killed six people and injured a further twelve in Bondi Junction....after which a panel of experts has unanimously concluded Cauchi’s mental state deteriorated quickly after he ended his medication and he was “floridly” psychotic, unmedicated, homeless and obsessed with serial killers by the time of his attack on April 13, 2024.
I know that if you suddenly stop taking anti-depressants or antipsychotics your condition usually become more severe.
I wonder how many of these patients are able to gun licenses because their mental condition is not disclosed or reported by doctors.
If it's not a condition to nenew your gun licence annually and to have an doctors certificate certifying you are fit to have one, maybe it should be.

 

[TooheysNew]

I was commenting on your claim, not his.

Yes, I'm aware you're clueless.