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What stats are most important to a position

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,108
Some team statistics I'd like to see are:
1. total passes thrown per game;
2. passes thrown in own half;

An individual defensive stat that should be readily available is 'interceptions' and also 'tries from intercepts'. These are arguable the most exciting events in the game as it is not only a long distance "break" but also usually totally unexpected. Who knows who took the most interceptions in 2016 (Semi Radradra) or which position they played? I guess it would always be a centre or winger.

Also 'tackles from marker'. Who made the most? Likely a hooker.

I would completely adjust tackle statistics. If the tackle is a 2 man tackle I would credit each tackler with half a tackle if it is a 3 man tackle I would just call it a team tackle with no defender credited.
 
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ed-grimley

Bench
Messages
2,552
Some team statistics I'd like to see are:
1. total passes thrown per game;
2. passes thrown in own half;

An individual defensive stat that should be readily available is 'interceptions' and also 'tries from intercepts'. These are arguable the most exciting events in the game as it is not only a long distance "break" but also usually totally unexpected. Who knows who took the most interceptions in 2016 (Semi Radradra) or which position they played? I guess it would always be a centre or winger.

Also 'tackles from marker'. Who made the most? Likely a hooker.

I would completely adjust tackle statistics. If the tackle is a 2 man tackle I would credit each tackler with half a tackle if it is a 3 man tackle I would just call it a team tackle with no defender credited.
What about a stat on how many times a player did something no one expected - even his coach - and totally caught out the opposition?
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
12,567
And you'd be way off.
Maybe if you compiled all the data from all my post's, check the post's which talk about whichever player's i liked as kid etc and cross referenced all that data you might get a bit closer to my age


Good
You should be young enough to go and find advanced metrics on MLB and NBA, and tell me if you need a phd in maths and an hour of your time to read a table of numbers. Haha

I mean you can't honestly think that's how this works can you? You don't need to do shit other than understand there is a logic behind the stat and understand what the stat is telling you. The only person who needs access to hundreds of data points and phd in maths is the egg heads to figure out the formulae, after thats done, you update the stats live AS THEY DO NOW, and the advanced metrics update themselves live. That's how systems work mate.
Most workplaces have live documents that work like this also, people input information and the powers that be and get live output data on their business.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,108
Another defensive stats which I'd like to see readily available is 'one on one strips' - who made the most strips in 2016? Is there some guy who has made way more than everyone else? (I guess it would be a backrower).

Also which player forced the most knock ons in defence? - that rang prop from the Roosters forced at least 3 knock on with his brutal defence in one game early in the season.

These things are big time play making that should be in a box score. Way more important than 'tackles'
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,108
In a game as simple as RL stats are nothing but bling, opportunities created and taken are all that matter. If all players had good or bad games on the same day stats might make a difference, as it is they're as relevant as MOM awards and just about as f**king fickle

Watch a game live for the entertainment and record/watch a replay like the players do to see what really won or lost the day . . . hindsight is a great thing if all you care about is the result

you are not speaking an absolute truth there. Just your opinion/taste.
Some fans (like me) are interested in a more detailed analysis of what is going on in the game for a better understand of why a coach is doing certain things.
I think advancing education of the average fan about the game by using the tools the coaches have at their disposal would be great for the game.
 

Edwahu

Bench
Messages
3,697
The QRL publishes a lot more detailed stats like PTB speed, post contact metres and Try Saves each week. See the example from the grand final below:

http://www.qrl.com.au/content/dam/q...onship/Burleigh Bears v Illawarra Cutters.pdf

The NRL would have these for all games but chooses not to publish this detail for some reason. In fact they have now dumped all stats before 2014.

The most advanced stats are owned by each club and provided by companies like Catapult Sport. These will never get released.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,108
The QRL publishes a lot more detailed stats like PTB speed, post contact metres and Try Saves each week. See the example from the grand final below:

http://www.qrl.com.au/content/dam/qrl/documents/intrust-super-cup/prozone-stats/2016/intrust-super-championship/Burleigh Bears v Illawarra Cutters.pdf

The NRL would have these for all games but chooses not to publish this detail for some reason. In fact they have now dumped all stats before 2014.

The most advanced stats are owned by each club and provided by companies like Catapult Sport. These will never get released.

That is really impressive by the QRL. It is interesting and not at all surprising that fans of QRL get a far better presentation of the game stats than fans of the NRL. This stuff should be available on NRL.com and on club websites.
It is as if the NRL and the clubs want the fans to remain uneducated and uninterested in the details of the game.

Who had the most metres after contact in 2016? Or metres from dummy half? Who ran the most decoys? Who has the worst decoy to penalties or best decoy to try ratio? Should there be a decoy runner of the year award?
 
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POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Isn't this what every fan wants ultimately - to see their team win on the day?
If a player misses five tackles in a game and his team loses he may get dropped next week. If he scores the winning try all is forgiven and the guy's a f**king hero.
In a GF only one stat may relevant - ask Scott Sattler or Ben Hunt.
A perfect scenario is for every team to play each other twice with the home team winning, points for and against at season's end deciding the comp. Since that won't happen the next best is for every team to play as well as they can every game

I don't like to see the team I favour winning because the opposition played up to shit so I'm in the minority. I'm also in the minority when I say stats mean sfa because they only cover what the eye can see, they can't record decisions players are faced with or injuries carried into games

So to each their own, I care that the best team on the day wins even if it's the Dogs v Melbourne, everything including stats after a good game has been played are tits on a bull as far as I'm concerned
 

MF88

Juniors
Messages
54
Was bored, decided to respond to some stuff here (as I have some experience in the area).

Quite the opposite, at least in raw (or basic per game rate) form and the way you're thinking about them (more errors per game = bad). Errors correlate (positively, but not particularly strongly either) to ladder position – meaning that the more errors you make, the better your team is likely to be (one outlier here – the Storm – driven by Cronk’s astounding and never seen elsewhere statistical shape)… this is definitely a weak predictor though, and in causality terms it’s close to if a then b and c, rather than if b then c.
This is an excellent and interesting post. And I'd like to make some points in response.

Firstly, the OP was talking about individual players rather than teams as a whole. On that basis I would certainly say the error stat is undervalued but mainly because most people don't even care about it as evidenced by the fact that the OP didn't include it in his long list of supposedly pertinent stats. This is quite common amongst your average fan. So whilst it may be true that errors correlate with ladder position or success, that certainly doesn't excuse abnormally high error counts from individual players who are not charged with a creative role. By that I mean, yeah, who cares how many errors Thurston makes? Of course he's going to produce a lot of errors as that is part of being a creative player. He has to take risks and with that will come errors but it's necessary. On the other hand, you have players like Manu Vatuvei who, though wingers are often expected to take risky options and are handed low percentage opportunities, they are generally not supposed to be making 4 errors a game. And I'd say the same for prop forwards. The caveat I'd like to offer is that it's probably more to do with which players are making the errors rather than the error count from any particular team overall. There's no positive correlation between the Warrior's success and Manu Vatuvei's error count. There may be one with Shaun Johnson's though.

And of course, as you mentioned, the more possession a team has, the more likely they are to produce errors as you can't knock on if you are not in possession of the ball.
 

MF88

Juniors
Messages
54
In a game as simple as RL stats are nothing but bling, opportunities created and taken are all that matter. If all players had good or bad games on the same day stats might make a difference, as it is they're as relevant as MOM awards and just about as f**king fickle

Watch a game live for the entertainment and record/watch a replay like the players do to see what really won or lost the day . . . hindsight is a great thing if all you care about is the result
Disagree with pretty much all of this as it's manifestly contradictory. You say RL is a simple game, which it certainly isn't relative to other sports, and then say stats are irrelevant, which, if it were in fact a simple game, would make statistics even more relevant. The purist or simplest ball sports are things like cricket, tennis, basketball and baseball. And they are the sports with the most accurately quantifiable stats.
 
Messages
1,860
I've heard this from good sources and have no reason to doubt it, by why the f**k aren't fox or nine paying to get these stats? And be able to present them to their viewers the way American sports do?

A few reasons.
- These stats are "confidential". The clubs aint gonna give them to a broadcaster no matter what the cost.
- The stats men for the TV networks are paid to churn out the stats the networks view important. It's pretty obvious Fox and 9 think that's all the "average" viewer needs, and they are probably right.
 
Messages
1,860
you are not speaking an absolute truth there. Just your opinion/taste.
Some fans (like me) are interested in a more detailed analysis of what is going on in the game for a better understand of why a coach is doing certain things.
I think advancing education of the average fan about the game by using the tools the coaches have at their disposal would be great for the game.

A lot of these completely useless stats are available in every Rugby League Week.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Disagree with pretty much all of this as it's manifestly contradictory. You say RL is a simple game, which it certainly isn't relative to other sports, and then say stats are irrelevant, which, if it were in fact a simple game, would make statistics even more relevant. The purist or simplest ball sports are things like cricket, tennis, basketball and baseball. And they are the sports with the most accurately quantifiable stats.
Opinions are diverse wonderful things, I thank you for giving me the incentive to carry on using my eyes to see the game the way I like it
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,108
A few reasons.
- These stats are "confidential". The clubs aint gonna give them to a broadcaster no matter what the cost.
- The stats men for the TV networks are paid to churn out the stats the networks view important. It's pretty obvious Fox and 9 think that's all the "average" viewer needs, and they are probably right.

The game film is not confidential. What else does Fox need to get one of these firms to provide the same stats for them?
In any case it should be driven by the NRL. The NRL should obtain similar stats as the clubs get and provide them on to the broadcasters with a request that the broadcaster try to talk more intelligently about the game. For instance do we really need Mark Gasnier whining the entire half time break about referee decisions and how bad the bunker is. Could he possibly make some intelligent comments about the game with the aid of similar statistics that the coaches have.
It is worth looking at.
 

Patorick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
9,004
The game film is not confidential. What else does Fox need to get one of these firms to provide the same stats for them?
In any case it should be driven by the NRL. The NRL should obtain similar stats as the clubs get and provide them on to the broadcasters with a request that the broadcaster try to talk more intelligently about the game. For instance do we really need Mark Gasnier whining the entire half time break about referee decisions and how bad the bunker is. Could he possibly make some intelligent comments about the game with the aid of similar statistics that the coaches have.
It is worth looking at.
Yes...

Great thread, stats people.
 
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