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What to do with Level 3 - Parramatta Leagues Club

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
but aren't the other mob doing the same?? :?

All I'm saying is that with ellection being in April, I'd rather sit back and wait how both sides sell it to me, If the ellections were today it would be a no brainer as to who I vote for but I want to atleast give both sides the benefit of time.

Just remember we're now at the 4th of February and whilst the current board of not convinced us that they should be re-ellected, the other mob have yet to announce their ticket.


I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean here, but if you are referring to the other mob(3P) as not having ideas, I don't think that is correct. At no stage have they said or inferred that they have no ideas. They have stated the exact opposite to us all, publicly in fact, and that is part of my point.

I know that they need to ultimately put some flesh on the bones so to speak, but they have always been up front about A. having a plan and B. slowly revealing it to us prior to the election, as prudent politics permits. There has never been any duplicity in what 3P have been stating to us from what I can see.

My problem with the incumbents is that I do not trust them in steering Parra to safer waters in the long run. They have been there way to long for me to take any promises they make seriously. Like I said before, if they could of they would of, before all this.

Otherwise they are just playing games with us all, and find it amusing to A. not win a premiership in over 22 years, and B. loose millions of dollars that is bringing disaster to the club and its ability to survive. Then to suddenly turn around and say, surprise we can fix it. Ignore what we have done for over a couple of decades, we now have a plan that we think you will like. Trust us we know what we are doing. Please give us another chance. Oh and after we fix Parra, we know how to fix the global economy. Nudge nudge, wink wink. ;-)


However Stags, you are absolutely right, and I agree that it is always wise to sit and wait and always assess, right up to the day of the election. Trust can be fleeting, its strength lies in performance, not just promises. The new mob vying for power need to show us the MONEY, and back it up with substance as much as possible for the voters to get them over the line. Obviously most of us here want change, but it does need to be a credible change, not substituting one lame and useless regime for another.
 
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Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
66,451
what I actually meant RAM, was that the 3P, as transparent as they have been, are still holding a fair bit of information back, however, I have acknowledged that if the ellection was today than my decision would be clear cut and the 3P will get my vote.

I'm as intrigued and intrested as the next bloke to see what comes out of the campaign from both sides and tbh, I'd like to assume that it will be long hard, aggresive and spirited from both sides of the fence.
 

Parra Future

Juniors
Messages
890
Just remember we're now at the 4th of February and whilst the current board of not convinced us that they should be re-ellected, the other mob have yet to announce their ticket.

Stagger,

We will be announcing candidates by the end of this month at the latest. I think Fish Eel wrote that there could be other nominees as well. That is correct. I can tell you as fact that there will be unless those individuals pull out prior to nominating which at this point in time I do not believe that they will. By mid to end of Feb, there will no doubt be plenty of information on all candidates that are 3P aligned. Can't stay online at the moment all. Just wanted to have a quick look at the forum before heading into the next meeting. Talk to you all tonight.
 

Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
66,451
Stagger,

We will be announcing candidates by the end of this month at the latest. I think Fish Eel wrote that there could be other nominees as well. That is correct. I can tell you as fact that there will be unless those individuals pull out prior to nominating which at this point in time I do not believe that they will. By mid to end of Feb, there will no doubt be plenty of information on all candidates that are 3P aligned. Can't stay online at the moment all. Just wanted to have a quick look at the forum before heading into the next meeting. Talk to you all tonight.

thanks Col..

I know this is a question I've asked more than once so I wont bother you anymore about it however I'm really looking forward to seeing who steps up to the plate.

chat soon.
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
what I actually meant RAM, was that the 3P, as transparent as they have been, are still holding a fair bit of information back

Naturally. It would be plain dumb to go releasing all the details of their campaign before it had even begun in earnest. The incumbent board can actually do things right now, so if they wanted to they could be trying to get a start on the campaigning via their actions. Haven't seen any of that so far.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
what I actually meant RAM, was that the 3P, as transparent as they have been, are still holding a fair bit of information back, however, I have acknowledged that if the ellection was today than my decision would be clear cut and the 3P will get my vote.

I'm as intrigued and intrested as the next bloke to see what comes out of the campaign from both sides and tbh, I'd like to assume that it will be long hard, aggresive and spirited from both sides of the fence.


Stags, I am not having a go at you here. My concern was that Ovo was doing a little political number on you by pulling you aside and telling you just quietly that they have a plan up their sleeve. Which I find quite laughable and insultingly patronizing.


If Ovo or any other incumbent board member was to have told me that, my answer to him would of been something along the lines of... "Well you should have pulled this grand plan of yours out of your arse at least 2 or 3 years ago you goose. Now you are just playing catchup to save your necks, but you are waaaay to freakin late."


Sorry Stags, I know you would never say that to him, but that is how I feel. And just quietly, if they do release some kind of plan, how well thought out and comprehensive can it be, since up until now they didn't have a clue as to what to do?


Yes I know who you would vote for if the elections were held today. I mean thankfully there aren't to many eels90210 or Parra Petes on this board. :shock: :lol:
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
Naturally. It would be plain dumb to go releasing all the details of their campaign before it had even begun in earnest. The incumbent board can actually do things right now, so if they wanted to they could be trying to get a start on the campaigning via their actions. Haven't seen any of that so far.


Oh what a surprise, but I expect it any day now. I mean 22+ yrs, this is gunna be one grand daddy of an plan and choc full of brilliant ideas brother. Can not wait.

Everybody just keep holding your collective breaths, the cavalry is coming, just a little longer. Don't worry we won't pass out, they will save us, we need to have faith, just a little longer, just a little more time, just want to be sure, just a matter of circumstance, just need a little more help, help, please someone help, hel.... :crazy:
 

Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
66,451
Stags, I am not having a go at you here. My concern was that Ovo was doing a little political number on you by pulling you aside and telling you just quietly that they have a plan up their sleeve. Which I find quite laughable and insultingly patronizing.

that may well be correct but you've also got to remember the election is in 2 months time, and whilst he may of hinted that there's a plan set in place, I also want to know in due cause what the hell it is.

If Ovo or any other incumbent board member was to have told me that, my answer to him would of been something along the lines of... "Well you should have pulled this grand plan of yours out of your arse at least 2 or 3 years ago you goose. Now you are just playing catchup to save your necks, but you are waaaay to freakin late." .

sure, but then he'd turn around and say, well we didn't think it was an issue 2 or 3 years ago.

just remember last election was 2 years ago and not many punters knew what impact the pokie tax and smoking laws would have on the club.

Sorry Stags, I know you would never say that to him, but that is how I feel. And just quietly, if they do release some kind of plan, how well thought out and comprehensive can it be, since up until now they didn't have a clue as to what to do?

again, I'll make that call if it ever comes to the surface but as it stands they will need to work "much harder" for my vote than 3P group would..that's a given.
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
57,232
that may well be correct but you've also got to remember the election is in 2 months time, and whilst he may of hinted that there's a plan set in place, I also want to know in due cause what the hell it is.



sure, but then he'd turn around and say, well we didn't think it was an issue 2 or 3 years ago.

just remember last election was 2 years ago and not many punters knew what impact the pokie tax and smoking laws would have on the club.



again, I'll make that call if it ever comes to the surface but as it stands they will need to work "much harder" for my vote than 3P group would..that's a given.

If everyone thought as logically as you, (and I'm not saying a lot don't)there'd be no chance the incumbants would get back into power, because frankly, I'd be surprised if they had any plan at all.

Suity
 
Messages
11,677
When as you suspect neither side come to us with solid answers for the entire $6mil shortfall... will you instead start to focus on what Board members you want elected based on their ongoing level of openness and communication with the average member, and their willingness to proactively organise opportunities to canvass for our ideas? Will you be able to see and admit any difference between the two "sides" thus far on that basis?

No.

Openess etc means nothing if there are no plans. "Gee, he may not have any ideas but he sure likes to meet at the Leagues Club to talk to us!" That's not a vote winner for me.

There's lots of stuff that's been posted since I wrote last so I'll just try to put in a quick little post to deal with it all as succinctly as possible:

Yes, I understand that there may be things coming down the track, before the election. Sponsorship announcements etc.

However, as yet we have nothing on the table and so the comments I have made are not including these future aspects. They are quite simply relating to what has already come.

And that is this: Neither side has any actual plans. Both sides are still canvassing a small minority of supporters for ideas despite the fact that we are less than 3 months from the election. It is highly improbable that anything concrete or substantial will be placed on the table before the election. As such, we will be unable to make an informed decision regarding issues relating to how the LC will be "changed". That is, apart from changes to the foyer that 3P have pretty much locked in (and which is a good idea).

As such, at this point in time, neither side has made any credible statement relating to why they should be given control of the LC. Neither side can in any way claim to be enhancing our financial situation.

It's all unsubstantiated rhetoric. Nothing more.

A good example is Col talking about reviewing everything once 3P gain control. Sounds good, sounds like we can cut costs, but for all we know 3P might get in there to find that DF is running a tight ship and cost cutting isn't much of an option. As such, it's a well intentioned statement from Col but not one that anyone will be able to clarify in regards to results prior to the election.

In relation to the "We have ideas" thing. It's simple - space in the LC is limited. Most likely, if 3P had already decided on even a few ideas regarding the LC, most likely this would have taken up all the available room (Sterlo's and the Auditorium) and leave little room to make use of any ideas that might come from threads like this. There is, after all, only so much you can do with such limited space. As such, the logical conclusion is that if they are still canvassing us for ideas then they have not filled the ptential of the free space and thus, considering how limited the space is, there probably aren't any significant ideas that have been finalised as yet. If true, this means that 3P have little or no plans in place in regards to what to actually do with the LC once they gain control of it.

Now, I'm not bagging any one. If you were at the meeting last Saturday you'd know that I asked Ovo more questions than anyone except maybe Col. It was also myself that asked Ovo if he was simply "crossing his fingers and hoping to ride out the storm" which is a quote Suity has misrepresented Ovo as having said.

I'll quote stagger when summing up my position:

that may well be correct but you've also got to remember the election is in 2 months time, and whilst he may of hinted that there's a plan set in place, I also want to know in due course what the hell it is.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
No.

Openess etc means nothing if there are no plans. "Gee, he may not have any ideas but he sure likes to meet at the Leagues Club to talk to us!" That's not a vote winner for me.

Fair enough, if that's your opinion.

To me no announced plans with a general willingness to communicate and consult is definitely a better option that no announced plans without a general willingness or record (Ovo excepted) of communication and consultation.
 
Messages
11,677
That lack of openness is countered by a wealth of experience.

You could counter that wealth of experience with this year's losses, but I could counter that by referencing the unexpected and changing circumstances that have led to those losses.

As I've said, at present I see no difference between the two parties involved.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
sure, but then he'd turn around and say, well we didn't think it was an issue 2 or 3 years ago.

Well that is the point, they don't know much at all, except more machines more machines more machines, I said bloody hell, more machines!!! What we can't have more machines and the taxes are going up on the ones we have, oh no what the hell, wait a minute let me get my head out of the sand. Ah that's a little better, well what do we do now? Anyone, anyone?


just remember last election was 2 years ago and not many punters knew what impact the pokie tax and smoking laws would have on the club.

Ditto, Planning for the inevitable downturn which all businesses experience should of been part of the overall management culture. Not squandering millions on ill fated ventures that were not part of the core business ideals of our club, and at the same time alienating their most prized asset, US.

To their defense I only have one comment. That they are not the only boofheads that followed down this blind path. There have been numerous administrators that have made similar errors of judgement, albeit not as spectacularly obvious as ours in light of the resources and wealth that our club once had.

As we all know league in general needs a huge rethink in the way all our clubs view and treat their fans and raise capital in general. Maybe, only maybe, if we are real lucky after these elections, and 3P are the real deal, our club may become a leader in the future of club administration.

A perfect example, that you yourself pointed out just the other day Staggs, was the Titans link with a betting company receiving a slice of the revenue. But that is just one idea that is again linked to gambling. What I and many others want to see is leagues clubs taking the lead and seducing the public in supporting their respective clubs, and making the team and club a priority in their families lives. Not something to do if there is nothing else to do or maybe go to the footy once in a while, when the moon is aligned with the earth, the sun and the stars, if you know what I mean. MAKE IT COOL AND A MUST TO GO AND BE SEEN FOR THE YOUNG, OLD AND FAMILIES!!

Other sports have not relied on gambling money to the extent that league has and hence for example, look at the support AFL has from virtually all of the community in its traditional states right across all demographics. This is not an accident, but a well thought out plan by non pokies addicted administrators.


I believe that we could easily have 40000 to 50000 thousand FC members in ten odd years if the right calls by the right administrators were made. To think otherwise is to believe that league is a second rated product. Which by no means is that the case. On the contrary it is by far the most adrenaline fueled spectacular sport on the planet when played at the highest level.

We are feared by other sports administrators and envied at the same time. It is just that we are also laughed at by those same people and the public in general for many indiscretions and for being so myopic and visionless, due to the political handcuffs that prevent the giant that league is from standing up and squashing the breath out of all the others. Petty jealousies and turf protectionism have dug a huge grave for league to bury itself in. Time will tell if this giant has the inner strength to stand up and get out of the self made grave that he is lying in before his adversaries shovel enough dirt in to lay him to rest forever.

This coming election may be Parra's only chance, in our own small way, to help the giant at least make an effort to sit up and take the first step in resurrecting its ailing fortunes.


Again time will tell.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
That lack of openness is countered by a wealth of experience.

You could counter that wealth of experience with this year's losses, but I could counter that by referencing the unexpected and changing circumstances that have led to those losses.

As I've said, at present I see no difference between the two parties involved.


Then in my opinion, you aren't looking very hard, not that you really need to look that hard, which suggests to me that you may need to just open your eyes, el pronto. :lol:
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
That lack of openness is countered by a wealth of experience.

You could counter that wealth of experience with this year's losses, but I could counter that by referencing the unexpected and changing circumstances that have led to those losses.
Fair enough.

But experience counts for nothing unless you are open about communicating it. One side (Ovo excepted, and Doc Johnson's angsty letter doesn't count) sat on their hands in the FC elections - almost like they just assumed their experience and status would carry them through without making the effort to engage? Wonder if things will be much different this time...
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
That lack of openness is countered by a wealth of experience.

You could counter that wealth of experience with this year's losses, but I could counter that by referencing the unexpected and changing circumstances that have led to those losses.

As I've said, at present I see no difference between the two parties involved.


Ah hello, the only experience that I can see is their experience in losing a hell of a lot of money, and countering it with a stone wall approach when called upon by members.
 
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Messages
11,677
They lost money because of the depreciation of assets and increase in pokie tax - neither of which could be seen coming and neither of which could be buffered against.

3P may very well have the proverbial ace up their sleeve. They just haven't shown it yet
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
57,232
It was also myself that asked Ovo if he was simply "crossing his fingers and hoping to ride out the storm" which is a quote Suity has misrepresented Ovo as having said.

I didn't misrepresent anything. When I used that phrase, it was used as a turn of phrase in a statement of mine, not actually quoting anything that was said.
I neither heard, nor knew that you had said that to Ovo.

Suity
 

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