Where I want the game to be when the World Cup is held in Australia in 2017

[bowes]

Semi-realistically:

NRL
as with Albert :shock:

Super League
Leeds
Bradford
Hull
Huddersfield
Wakefield
Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Salford
Catalans
Toulouse
Harlequins
London Skolars/Saracens RL
Celtic Crusaders

National League 1 (mix of pro and semi-pro)
Hull KR
Castleford
Widnes
Leigh
Whitehaven
Halifax
Rochdale
Dewsbury
Barrow
Sheffield
Doncaster
York
Gateshead
Hemel
Coventry
Nottingham

French Elite (semi-pro)
Pia
Montpellier
Lezignan
Limoux
Carcassonne
Catalans 2
Marseille
Carpentras
Avignon
Lyon
St Gaudens
Albi
Toulouse 2
Villeneuve
Bordeaux
Corbeil/Paris

 

[bowes]

World Cup (16 teams)

Automatic qualifiers:
Australia
New Zealand
England
France
Papa New Guinea
Wales

Qualifying:

Atlantic Zone (top 2 qualifies, 3rd place plays off against 4th from Pacific)
USA
West Indies
Japan
South Africa

Pacific (top 3 qualify, bottom plays off against 3rd from Atlantic)
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
Cook Islands

Western Europe
Round 1
Group 1
Netherlands
Germany
Austria

Group 2
Italy
Malta
Spain
Morocco

winners play off for 2nd round spot

Round 2 (top 2 to world cup)
Scotland
Ireland
winner playoff round 1

Eastern Europe
Round 1
Serbia
Greece
Czech Republic
Georgia
Estonia

winner to 2nd round

Round 2 (top 2 qualify)
Lebanon
Serbia
winner round 1

 

[mattystans000]

RLWC: (12 Nations - 6 Auto Qualifiers/21 Qualifiers)

Pacific Auto Qualifiers:
Australia
New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
Euro Auto Qualifiers:
England
France
Wales
Qualifiers:
Pacific A1
Pacific B1
Euro A(1) 1
Euro A(2) 1
Euro A(1v2) 2
Atlantic 1

Pacific Qualifiers:
(2 Pools x 3 Nations)
Fiji
Tonga
Samoa
Cooks
Tokelau
Niue
Euro A Qualifiers:
(2 Pools x 3 Nations)
Ireland
Scotland
Lebanon
Russia
Malta
Italy
Euro B Qualifiers:
(1st-Euro A/2nd-Euro A Playoff)
Russia
Serbia
Holland
Czeck Republic
Euro C Qualifiers:
(1st-Euro A/2nd-Euro A Playoff)
Germany
Malta
Italy
Greece
Atlantic Qualifiers:
USA
Japan
West Indies
South Africa

 

[mattystans000]

NRL: (24)

NSW: (6)
Sydney City Rabbitohs - Sydney Football Stadium
Newcastle Knights - Energy Australia
Central Coast Bears - Blutongue
St. George Illawarra Dragons - Oki Jubilee/WIN
Parramatta Penrith Eels - Parramatta/CUA
Wests Tigers - Leichardt/Campbelltown

QLD: (6)
Brisbane Broncos - Suncorp
North Queensland Cowboys - Dairy Farmers
Gold Coast Titans - Skilled
Sunshine Coast Dolphins - Dolphin Oval
South East Queensland Crushers - Ipswich
Central Comets - Rockingham

NZ: (3)
Auckland Warriors - Mt. Smart
Wellington Orcas - Westpac
Christchurch Phoenix - Jade

WA: (3)
Perth Reds - Members Equity Stadium
Joondalup Giants - Joondalup
Kalgoorlie Wolves - Kalgoorlie

NT: (2)
Darwin Devils - Marrara Oval
Alice Springs Frill Necks - Anzac Oval

VIC: (1)
Melbourne Storm - Olympic Stadium
ACT: (1)
Canberra Raiders - Canberra
PNG: (1)
Port Moresby Vipers - Lloyd Robson Oval
SA: (1)
Adelaide Rams - Hindmarsh Stadium

2x Conferences/12 Teams
22 Rounds + 5 Bye Wks + 4 Finals Wks - (Sync w/ESL)

Random Draw of Teams:
Requirements:
3xNSW/Conference
3xQLD/Conference
2xNZ or 2xNT or 2x WA or 1xVIC+1xSA (Any 2 Pairs) /Conference
2x Other /Conference

5x Bye Weeks: (After Round#)
Bye Wk 1: (R5)
PMXIII v Png
Nz A v Tonga/Fiji
Bye Wk 2-4: (R8,R11,R14)
SOO x3
NZ v PI x3
Bye Wk 5: (R17)
Aus v Nz
GB v Fra

Finals:
Wk1: Conference Top 6
1v4
2v5
3v6

Wk2: Combined Top 6
(W1v4A) + (W1v4B) - Bye
(W2v5A) v (W3v6B)
(W3v6A) v (W2v5B)

Wk3: Semis
(W1v4A) v (Wk2 1 W)
(W1v4B) v (Wk2 2 W)

Wk4: Grand Final
(Semi 1 W) v (Semi 2 W)

Wk5: WCC Warmup
NRL Premiers v NL Club
Wk6: World Club Challenge
NRL Premiers v ESL Champions

 

[mattystans000]

ESL: (20)

Yorkshire: (5)
Leeds Rhinos
Bradford Bulls
Hull FC
Huddersfield Giants
Castleford Tigers

Lancashire: (5)
Wigan Warriors
St Helens RLFC
Warrington Wolves
Manchester City Reds
Widnes Vikings

London Borough: (1)
London Harlequins
Cumbria: (1)
Whitehaven RLFC
Wales: (1)
Celtic Crusaders

France: (3)
Les Catalans Dragons
Toulouse Olympique
S.M. Pia/Paris St. Germain

22 Rounds
Play Each Team x1 (15R)/7 Teams x2 (7R)

Finals 4 Wks:
Wk1: Top 8
1v5
2v6
3v7
4v8

Wk2: Top 6
1+2 - Bye
3v5
4v6

Wk3: Semis
1v(W4v6)
2v(W3v5)

Wk4: Grand Final
Semi 1 W v Semi 2 W

5 Bye Wks: (After Round#)
Bye Wk 1-4:
CCup R5,1/4,Semi,Final - (R5,R8,R11,R14)
Bye Wk 5:
GB v Fra - (R17)

Bye Wk 6: WCC Warm Up
ESL Champions v NL Club
Bye Wk 7: World Club Challenge
ESL Champions v NRL Premiers

 

[Copa]

There is nothing serious happening in the West Indies, and I predict that there never will be because of the equatorial climate. It is too hot to play rugby league there. Ditto Southeast Asia.

You've clearly never been to PNG.... I"ve also seen PNG uni students guys playing scratch RL games in Central Java.

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

You've clearly never been to PNG.... I"ve also seen PNG uni students guys playing scratch RL games in Central Java.

Good point.

But the PNG population were weaned on rugby league during the Australian mandate. It is a very unusual situation. Bringing a new game into an inhospitable climate from scratch, where the population has no particular reverence for he emissaries of the game (unlike in PNG, where the reverence for Australia was quasi-religious) is a very diffuicult task.

More chances of success in poorer countries of former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, where the temperate or colder climate is ideal.

 

[In-goal]

It's all great to that we want a WC in 2017 to be successful but what about 2008 first, for one what would make that WC a success?

I tell you Australia missing the final would go along way for the sport, perhaps France to run England or New Zealand close in a semi final.

 

[mattystans000]

It's all great to that we want a WC in 2017 to be successful but what about 2008 first, for one what would make that WC a success?

I tell you Australia missing the final would go along way for the sport, perhaps France to run England or New Zealand close in a semi final.

We'll have to wait and see about the 2008WC, it's out of anyone's hands except Love's. Whatever he does, we hope it will make it a succes. Also Australia are pretty much in the final already but NZ and England can beat them on their day, so possibly, but France won't do anything in the semi's except show up and play some good football, but they don't have a chance of an upset.

By the Way, this is just a future hypothetical thread, 2017 in particular isn't of much importance, but it's not a 2008WC whinge/fantasy thread.

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

We'll have to wait and see about the 2008WC, it's out of anyone's hands except Love's. Whatever he does, we hope it will make it a succes. Also Australia are pretty much in the final already but NZ and England can beat them on their day, so possibly, but France won't do anything in the semi's except show up and play some good football, but they don't have a chance of an upset.

By the Way, this is just a future hypothetical thread, 2017 in particular isn't of much importance, but it's not a 2008WC whinge/fantasy thread.

2017 is of importance because it is the likely year when we will have the World Cup back here again. I am hoping that by then Colin Love will have long gone from the rugby league scene. I am also hoping that a unified single RL structure will have been long established in Australia by then. But we need to think about the future of the game globally because not many people in power do.

See also the comments by Peter Holmes a Court on the need for a single administration.

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,22149851-5001023,00.html

 

[griff]

for what it's worth (ie not much) here is my idea of a realistic view of where would be a good place for the game to be in 2017. It's important to consider not just each bit in isolation, but how it all fits together.

World Cup

For the foreseeable future, the WC should go between the northern and southern hemispheres every four years, and alternate between being mainly hosted in Australia and New Zealand while in the SH, and in GB/France in the NH.

Qualification for the WC should be done on a regional basis so that the international flavour is maximised and that important development nations are able to reach the cup. Qualifying will be held in the two years prior to the WC.

The 2017 event should be a 16 team (4x4) event, held mainly in NZ (although with games to be held in Australia, PNG and possibly New Caledonia):

Australia
New Zealand
France
PNG
England
Wales
Pacific Cup 1 (Samoa,Tonga,Fiji,Cook Is,Tokelau,Niue,American Samoa)
Pacific Cup 2
Pacific Cup 3
Americas qualifier (winner of USA,Canada,Jamaica,Argentina)
Eastern Europe qualifier (winner of Russia,Georgia,Serbia,Estonia)
Western Europe qualifier 1 (Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany, Italy)
Western Europe qualifier 2
Africa qualifier (winner of South Africa/Morocco)
Asia qualifier (winner of Lebanon/Japan)
RLIF Nations Cup winner*

RLIF Nations Cup would double as an emerging nations world cup and repechage qualifier for teams not qualifying for the WC through their regional tournaments. It would be held every four years in the year prior to the WC.

Pacific Cup would be held every four years and double as both a regional tournament and a world cup qualification tournament. NZ Maori and Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander team could compete in the Pacific Cup, but would be ineligible for qualification for the world cup.

Great Britain

The Great Britain RL team would continute to be known as the Great Britain Lions, and continute to be representative of all 4 home nations. Home nations will be split for World Cups, for European Championships, and for non-test matches against touring sides.

Kangaroo Tours/Lions Tours/Kiwi Tours

Each of the Kangaroo Tours, Lions Tours and Kiwi Tours to be revived as 4 yearly events. As ably demonstrated by the RU Lions Tours of 2001 and 2005, and the Kangaroo Tours of 1990 and 1994 they bring much larger numbers of sports tourists.

Kangaroo and Kiwi Tours would be somewhat shorter than in the past, going for around 6-8 weeks and playing matches against a selected number of club sides as well as against Wales, England U/21 etc. Matches against club sides will bring in much greater crowds and therefore greater revenue than matches against purely representative teams. A percentage of revenue from each match will go to the RLIF. Kangaroo and Kiwi Tours would play one test in France or one test in Russia on alternate tours. They could also play an occasional match in Lebanon, security permitting.

The Lions Tour would alternate between NZ and Australia every four years. In years they tour NZ, they would play a one-off test against Australia, while in years they tour Australia, they would play a one-off test against NZ.

A Lions Tour to Australia would include a test against PNG in PNG, and a Lions Tour to NZ would include a match against NZ Maori.

Other tours

Australia would alternate between touring either PNG or the Pacific (NZ Maori, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa) every four years in the year that the Kiwis tour GB.

The Kiwis would tour PNG every four years in the year that the Kangaroos are playing GB.

Other nations and other teams (such as NZ Maori, Aboriginals, France, Russia etc) would tour on a more ad hoc basis.

RLIF Test Championship

All test playing nations must play each other at least once in any given 8 year period. These matches will go to a championship ranking table.

From then on, each year the nation at the top of the RLIF Test Championship will be awarded that forgotten trophy of international rugby league, the Courtney International Goodwill Trophy.

NRL

by now a wholly owned subsidiary of the ARL

world sevens

a carnival-style competition mixing national teams with the NRL clubs is the best way to introduce new countries to the game, give them exposure, and promote the international game to NRL fans, while providing a fun summery start to the season

world club challenge

to remain as a one-off between the NRL and ESL winner. Needs to alternate between GB and Australia to expose Australian RL audiences to overseas clubs. This would do more to legitimise RL as an international sport.

NRL pre-season competition

taking games to regional areas and emerging markets, with a focus on a new area of development each year - eg in 2017 one pool could have their matches in cities on the west coast of USA, or South Africa, or Asia.

Souths and St George will always be drawn together in the first match of the pre-season competition, which will double as the charity shield (to be played at Telstra/SFS).

Also provides a new property to attract sponsorship, and adds value by providing pay-TV fodder during a time when there is no rugby league on TV and traditionally AFL has had a free shot.

NRL season opener double header

featuring the 4 best NSW teams from the previous year's table. Allows the NRL season proper to kick off with a marquee event, and one that will attract a massive crowd, kick-starting momentum for the season.

NRL season

20 teams, playing each other once for a 19 round regular season. weeks off for Origin, and a test match v NZ. City Country will remain on a Fri night as it is currently.

The season schedule for the whole season must be released in advance. FTA TV could still pick which of the Friday night or which of the Sunday games they would like to show live up until the week before the game.

New Teams(to come into the league in two stages, two new teams in 2012, and two new teams in 2017)

no enforced movements or mergers. A $10-12m + fund to be set up to allow clubs that want to to move to a key development area be able to do so.

Central Coast Bears

playing one home game a year at North Sydney Oval. Proximity of Central Coast to Sydney and Newcastle allows away fans to travel, boosting average crowds. NRL spends money on development and marketing to lure back youth of North Sydney to rugby league.

WA Reds

backed by strong finances and population growth due to ongoing minerals boom. Time difference means a 7.30 kick off can be shown live on the east coast at 9.30, eliminating the need to show a game on delay on super saturday, boosting TV ratings.

Wellington Orcas

allows for more dollars to be spent and more roster spots available to retain young NZ RL players in the country, benefiting the NZ national team. Increases exposure of RL in NZ. Adds to crowds by providing a NZ derby. By alternating with the Warriors, almost every week will now have a 7.30 game from NZ, shown live on the east coast of Australia at 5.30, eliminating the need for a game to be played at that time in Australia (traditional the timeslot that draws the worst crowds).

Sunshine Coast Dolphins

taking in the area north of and including Redcliffe, which will have a combined population of nearly 400,000 by then. It would also draw on Northern Brisbane. The addition of one new Qld team effectively doubles the number of Qld derbies, boosting crowds signifcantly. Will play blockbuster games at Suncorp, but will require a new stadium, probably at Caboolture.

Origin

standalone events on a saturday or sunday night, with no NRL that week. On these weeks off for Origin, NZ play three test matches against Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, PNG, or a touring NH side.

Anzac Test

To return as the Anzac Test, and be played on the saturday night closest to Anzac Day. No NRL games that weekend. GB to play France on the same weekend, with no ESL (thus allowing all players to represent NZ, and allow NRL-based players to turn out for the Lions).

Finals Series

Final 8 format to remain. Rather than necessarily staying in Sydney the location of the Grand Final is put out to tender each year, attracting large bids from stadium operators and governments, and finding a massive source of new revenue for the NRL.

ESL (but branding itself as the Rugby Super League)

14 teams
play home and away each year for 26 rounds, no additional games
promotion and relegation retained, but allowing for new franchises with a 5 year period of relegation immunity
encourage clubs to minimise use of the American-sounding nicknames and return to using their traditional logos
return to using the Championship Trophy as the prize, not that naff little super league cup thing
bring back the Yorkshire and Lancashire Cups as pre-season events to replace the informal December/January friendlies
each year the winner of the Yorkshire and Lancashire Cups to play in the Charity Shield
critical to pursue an England-wide terrestrial television deal for one match a week and a highlights package, even by buying time on Channel 5 if they have to (then on-selling to advertisers themselves)

New Franchises

definites:

Celtic Crusaders (playing their home matches in Bridgend, Newport, Swansea, Cardiff, Neath, and Pontypridd)

Toulouse Olympique

and potentially one or more of the following:

Benetton Treviso
Paris St Germain
Leicester
Birmingham
Edinburgh
Dublin

National Leagues

More money from Super League or Sports England must be transferred to the lower tiers of the professional game.

Money to be put in to the Welsh Conference, rebranded as the Rugby League of Wales and brought to a more professional standard, with greater coverage through S4C/BBC Wales.

France Test

play a mid-season test between GB and France on the same weekend as the Anzac Test, with no other matches that weekend.

European Championship

reinstitute the European Championship as it existed between the 30s and mid 90s, as a three-cornered contest between England, Wales and France. These matches would be played during the season

Other European Competitions

Continue the European Nations Cup on a similar basis to today.

 

[screeny]

Interesting reading.

One thing I've been toying with is the possibility of RL holding its WC every three years. If we can make 08 profitable then perhaps we'd be catching up financially by hosting it triennially?

This could happen a few times before we go quadrennially.

 

[griff]

Interesting reading.

One thing I've been toying with is the possibility of RL holding its WC every three years. If we can make 08 profitable then perhaps we'd be catching up financially by hosting it triennially?

This could happen a few times before we go quadrennially.

Don't really like the idea, if only because no serious international sport has a WC every 3 years. Every serious international event is every 4 years, so if you go off that timeline you are going to look like you aren't a proper international sport.

The non-standard intervals that the WC has had is one of the main problems it has in creating perceived legitimacy, IMO.

Should be 2008, then 2013 and every 4 years thereafter. Although I still think it should have been 2005, 2009, 2013 with a Centenary Kangaroo Tour in 2008!

 

[screeny]

Yeah but we're not like other int'l sports in that we're geniused in every sense of the word.

If we can make a big profit out of 08 I think RL should maximise the WC concept to try to re-invigorate our int'l coffers.

The African Cup of Nations is biennial and the Copa America used to be but then recently changed to every three years (2001, 2004 and this year).

However, even without those precedents I don't think it matters. RL needs to revamp its international game on so many levels and if a more regular WC will bring in more money and professionalise the other lesser nations' administrations and sponsorship opportunities then I think we should at least study the possibility.

 

[mattystans000]

International Schedule-Wise, this is how I would run things, similar to Griff:

4 Year Cycle:

Year 3: (2007)
Nz All Gold's Centenary Tour of Northern Hemisphere - Confirmed
Itinerary:
Nz v Aus
Nz All Golds v Northern Union
Baskerville
Nz v GB
Nz v GB
Nz v GB
Nz v Fra

Year 4: (2008)
Rugby League World Cup - Aus, Nz, Png, Eng, Fra, Pac, Pac, Eur, Eur, Rep
Aus Hosts

Year 1: (2009)
4 Nations - Aus, Nz, Eng, Fra
GB/Fra Hosts
Euro Nations - Ire, Sco, Wal, Lebanon, Rus, Ita
Pacific Nations - Png, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

Year 2: (2010)
GB Tour of Southern Hemisphere - Confirmed
Itinerary: (Example)
GB v Fra - Warrington
GB v Png/Pacific Islands - Lloyd Robson Oval
GB v Nz - Mt. Smart
Ashes
GB v Aus - Brisbane
GB v Aus - Melbourne
GB v Aus - Sydney
GB v Australasia - Brisbane
(Aus+Nz - Commemerative Test of 1910 1st Australasian Tour)

Year 3: (2011)
4 Nations - Aus, Nz, Eng, Fra
Aus/Nz Hosts
Euro Nations - Ire, Sco, Wal, Lebanon, Rus, Ita
Pacific Nations - Png, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

Year 4: (2012)
4 Nations - Aus, Nz, Eng, Fra
GB/Fra Hosts
Euro Nations - Ire, Sco, Wal, Lebanon, Rus, Ita
Pacific Nations - Png, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

Year 5: (2013)
Rugby League World Cup - Aus, Nz, Png, Eng, Fra, Wal, Pac, Pac, Eur, Eur, Eur, Rep
GB/Fra Hosts

Year 1: (2014)
Euro Nations - Ire, Sco, Wal, Lebanon, Rus, Ita - Early Year
Pacific Nations - Png, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa - Early Year
6 Nations - Aus, Nz, Eng, Fra, Pac Nat W, Eur Nat W
Aus/Nz Hosts

Year 2: (2015)
Aus Tour of Northern Hempisphere
Itinerary:
Aus v Png/Pacific Islands
Aus v Nz
Aus v Fra
Ashes
Aus v GB
Aus v GB
Aus v GB
Aus v Australasia

Year 3: (2016)
Euro Nations - Ire, Sco, Wal, Lebanon, Rus, Ita - Early Year
Pacific Nations - Png, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa - Early Year
6 Nations - Aus, Nz, Eng, Fra, Pac Nat W, Eur Nat W
GB/Fra Hosts

Year 4: (2017)
Rugby League World Cup - Aus, Nz, Png, Eng, Fra, Wal, Pac, Pac, Eur, Eur, Atl, Rep
Aus/Nz/Png Hosts

*During Tour Years Other Nations may schedule Test Matches, but the main tour is listed and rotated every cycle between Aus, Nz, GB, Fra. In Test years the following sides would operate together: Great Britain, Pacific Islands, Celtics and possibly European Union.