WHO IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD (INJURED OR NOT)

[Chicken_Hunter]

Johns is a way more complete player than lockyer is or ever will be.

I am of the belief that people vote for lockyer purely for the fact they dont like johns as a person, which i know is hard to do. If this was a competion of who is the best and easiest to like player than by all means vote for lockyer.

At his best, Johns is a better player than Lockyer. It's as simple as that in my mind.

However, Johns always plays at his best when his team is the better side, so even without him they would still have won. He turns a 10-16 point win into a 20-36 point win. But get him in a match where the opposition is steam-rolling his forwards and dominating possession and field position, and you barely see anything from him.

Lockyer is the complete opposite. When his team is the superior side and is going to win anyway, he'll take his foot off the pedal and allow others in the team to take over. Result - a much smaller win than what they would've had if Johns was in his place. But there is no one in football today who is more dangerous when his team is on the receiving end. In the final 2 months of 2002, the Broncos forwards were being outperformed in virtually every single match, but Lockyer stepped up and a level and kept the Broncos in the hunt. It was never better shown than the match against the Roosters (I can't remember whether it was the preliminary final or a late regular season game). The Roosters players out-performed their Broncos counterpart in 12 of the 13 positions on the park by a long way. But single-handedly Lockyer almost stole that game. Put Johns in the same situation and there was no way he would've had the same impact.

So what would you prefer? A player who makes a win into a bigger win, or a player who gives you a better chance of getting a result when you're losing? I know which I would prefer.

Hmm, i disagree. Johns has, on numerous occasions turned a game around. We have come from the death on a lot of occasions sparked mainly from johns. Johns wouldnt be regarded as highly as he is now if he didnt have the ability to single handedly take control of a game..

But i take it that is how you can see the difference between the 2 players..

Here is how i see the difference.

Whenever the knights are behind and something needs to be done to get us back on track johns wont lose guessing. He will try for the money ball, the impossible kick, the step etc.. He will chance his arm in tight and stressful situations.. It is this type of flair that has made the knights a feared team for the best part of 7 years. Johns's ability to spark a scoring play anywhere, anytime is one of his best assets and what he is well known for. Sometimes they wont work, or we may lose possession, but thats what you get with johns steering the ship..

Lockyer on the other hand i feel is a more conservative player.. He will bide his time before he will chance his arm, he wont do it unless its almost certain to pull of.. Lockyer also has a very deceptive running game which also makes him great..

Both players have great vision.. Johns has more flair and spark, lockyer is conservative, choosing his moment at the perfect time.

it would be interesting to see these to play together wouldnt it?

 

[JoeysWheelchair]

Mad Dogg is right. And Chicken Hunter, you are joking yourself, seriously, when the Knights are down, Johns goes missing. Its a known fact. He goes missing. When the Knights are losing and their forwards are being dominated, then you don't even notice him. Its like Kimmorley, he was great at the Storm behind a good forward pack, but since he has gone elsewhere he hasn't had that same impact. Yet last year when he somehow made the Australian side, people started to talk about him again because the players around him gave him those chances.

However, when Lockyer's team is down he puts in, and arrives at the scene. Lockyer is definitely the best player in the world, and i'll say it time and time again that people who rate Johns as the best they've ever seen, or worthy of being an immortal then they mustn't have seen any footy during the 90's. The likes of Langer, Lewis, Stuart, Daley (to name a few) all were superb and dominated a position and games more than Johns has. Throw Fittler in there as well, he has been a dominating force who has been more consistent then Johns.

Johns is alright, but he hasn't ever achieved that dominance that other players have, and he definitely doesn't have any impact when his forwards are down.

 

[Jono078]

I voted for Johns, which evens things up, I've said it before, i dont see whats so good about Lockyer, Me personally would put Gower and Bederus before him. Plz dont argue with me as it is only my opinion.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Mad Dogg is right. And Chicken Hunter, you are joking yourself, seriously, when the Knights are down, Johns goes missing. Its a known fact. He goes missing. When the Knights are losing and their forwards are being dominated, then you don't even notice him. Its like Kimmorley, he was great at the Storm behind a good forward pack, but since he has gone elsewhere he hasn't had that same impact. Yet last year when he somehow made the Australian side, people started to talk about him again because the players around him gave him those chances.

However, when Lockyer's team is down he puts in, and arrives at the scene. Lockyer is definitely the best player in the world, and i'll say it time and time again that people who rate Johns as the best they've ever seen, or worthy of being an immortal then they mustn't have seen any footy during the 90's. The likes of Langer, Lewis, Stuart, Daley (to name a few) all were superb and dominated a position and games more than Johns has. Throw Fittler in there as well, he has been a dominating force who has been more consistent then Johns.

Johns is alright, but he hasn't ever achieved that dominance that other players have, and he definitely doesn't have any impact when his forwards are down.

Oh please... :roll: i would take what you say with a grain of salt.. Like you have watched many knights games.. Idiot.. Johns always tries his heart out.

Johns is an extremely consistant player.. How else can you describe our success since 1997. Why do the knights not do as well when he isnt there?

You are kidding yourself..

May i just say...

44-0 Broncos biggest loss, orchestrated by johns coming off 8 weeks on the sideline from injury.. THank you very much.

 

[Ryan_Loves_Broncos]

Johns is the best, there's no question. I see Lockyer is leading, but that's purely because Johns is injured. Lockyer is an all-time great, but Johns is the best there is at the moment

I'd rather be an all-time great than be the best at the moment.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Johns is the best, there's no question. I see Lockyer is leading, but that's purely because Johns is injured. Lockyer is an all-time great, but Johns is the best there is at the moment

I'd rather be an all-time great than be the best at the moment.

LoL i agree. But JJs post isnt that credible.. Johns is the best at the moment? How can he be? he has a season ending injury and hasnt played for 16 weeks. :?

 

[JoeysWheelchair]

Mad Dogg is right. And Chicken Hunter, you are joking yourself, seriously, when the Knights are down, Johns goes missing. Its a known fact. He goes missing. When the Knights are losing and their forwards are being dominated, then you don't even notice him. Its like Kimmorley, he was great at the Storm behind a good forward pack, but since he has gone elsewhere he hasn't had that same impact. Yet last year when he somehow made the Australian side, people started to talk about him again because the players around him gave him those chances.

However, when Lockyer's team is down he puts in, and arrives at the scene. Lockyer is definitely the best player in the world, and i'll say it time and time again that people who rate Johns as the best they've ever seen, or worthy of being an immortal then they mustn't have seen any footy during the 90's. The likes of Langer, Lewis, Stuart, Daley (to name a few) all were superb and dominated a position and games more than Johns has. Throw Fittler in there as well, he has been a dominating force who has been more consistent then Johns.

Johns is alright, but he hasn't ever achieved that dominance that other players have, and he definitely doesn't have any impact when his forwards are down.

Oh please... :roll: i would take what you say with a grain of salt.. Like you have watched many knights games.. Idiot.. Johns always tries his heart out.

Johns is an extremely consistant player.. How else can you describe our success since 1997. Why do the knights not do as well when he isnt there?

You are kidding yourself..

May i just say...

44-0 Broncos biggest loss, orchestrated by johns coming off 8 weeks on the sideline from injury.. THank you very much.

lol are you stupid? What would you know about how much football I watch. And about your "biggest loss" I believe Johns was a part of the Knight's biggest loss of all time. Or at least one of the biggest when they got flogged by the sharks, orchestrated by Kimmorley lol.

Your point is invalid. Please try again.

Success since 97? He has been on the sidelines over the last 3 years. What about the success of other teams like Brisbane, Roosters, Bulldogs etc? The Knights have been successful, but not the most successful. Another invalid point.

 

[Craigshark]

I cant believe the guy put Stacey Jones in but left out Brett Kimmorley.. And thats not being bias because im a Sharks supporter, its just common sense..

Why? Before this season, Jones was rated by most as in the top three with Locky and Johns.

Lockyer #1 - the only one who plays better when his forwards are under-performing. Single-handedly almost took the Broncos to the 2002 final when every other player on the team was lacklustre.

What the hell has previous seasons got to do with it, its now? And as if Kimmorley hasnt performed better then Jones in the past..
Kimmorley is the more consistant player of the two and in my opinion is a lot better player then Jones..

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

How many premierships have the broncos won since 97? 3! 97, 98 and 2000. How many have the knights won? 2, How many have the roosters won? 1! How many have the bulldogs won? 0!

Johns being on the sidelines for the past 3 years(with us doing poorly without him) also emphasises my point that he is a great player. The amount of talent and influence he brings on this team is remarkable.. Johns has single handedly put people in rep teams just because he makes them look good. Has lockyer ever done this? NO. Johns can make any team look awesome.

Take lockyer out of a team, the team still performs. Why? Because lockyer isnt as big an influence.

If you say the knights are a one man team(which i dont believe is true) then all you are saying is how good johns is. For johns to be able to make a team so good by himself is just remarkable.

You sir are an idiot.

I dislike johns vs lockyer arguments as i regard both as great players, i would also put fittler in this category. I have witnessed all 3 players do remarkable things, and quite frankly i dont think fittler gets enough recognition of what he has achieved.

These 3 players are the greatest players in the current 'era'. I dont know if any will make immortal status. But if there was a hall of fame, all 3 would be there.

They are all great players and none of them deserve to be put down because you have a vandetta against them.

 

[Holla if ya hear me]

Its Johns...easily

 

[ledzep]

once again, fittler is largely ignored despite the fact he is better than both

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

once again, fittler is largely ignored despite the fact he is better than both

I agree somewhat..

It annoys me that freddy gets ignored in this kind of debate.

I think all 3 are great and have their good and bad qualities..

I am willing to accept that they are all great players and are equally as good.

Freddy is a great leader, i havnt witnessed a better leader.

Johns has the flair.

Lockyer has a deceptive running game.

6. Lockyer
7. Johns
13. Fittler

1. Lockyer
6. Fittler
7. Johns

Awesome. I would leave it as that. I dont like to discredit players. They are all great and i personally would like to leave it as that.

 

[Anonymous]

Even contest, I favour Lockyer then Johns but I think Johns has been great for the sides he has represented.

 

[Ben]

how can you not clasiffy johns as an all time great?

 

[rock_on_knights]

andrew johns!!!

 

[JoeysWheelchair]

how can you not clasiffy johns as an all time great?

He has not achieved as much as other players have.

Chicken Hunter, your ignorance and one eyed knights stance astounds me. The Knights have barely been awful, theyve played most of this year without Johns and have been competitive. Take Lockyer out of the team, they still perform, BECAUSE there are many other Australian level representatives in the team like Webcke, Tallis, Civ. Tate, Berrigan, plus others who have been there like Devere.

Lockyer has played a lot of his football at fullback, which means he doesn't play a major role in comparison to a half. However, when judging who is a better player against another, where they both play different positions, a simple formula of judging who dominates their position the best should be applied. For example, Lockyer has played fullback for years, unopposed, not because there aren't quality fullbacks around, but because he is the best. His defense and reading of general play is outstanding, and the way he injects himself into attack and provides another kicking option makes him even more dangerous. However, compare that to Johns, who has had an ongoing fight with the likes of Langer, Kimmorley, and the other halves in the league, shows he doesn't have that dominance in a position. He played origin at hooker because he wasn't first choice half back, if he were, they wouldn't have sacrificed him.

Now Lockyer has moved from fullback to 5/8 and has taken to it like a duck to water. He has had no troubles in the transition and has once again, dominated that position this season and will more than likely find himself at 5/8 for Australia at the end of the year if he is fit.

 

[thuganomics]

Johns by a long shot.

 

[King of the Hill]

:lol:
you put trent barrett in
what a shocker

 

[lockyno1]

Lockyer easily, but only because he has done more at a state level!!

The are both the best in their positions. That is why I prefer if the topic was comparing players of the same position!!

 

[Timmah]

Gawwwd why is it always halves. I'm sorry but this is stupid, Andrew Ryan, Willie Tonga, Paul Rauhihi, Billy Slater, Joe Williams (admittedly a half), Ben Kennedy, all better players IMO atm. I'm sick of Lockyer Johns etc gettin all the credit simply because of the 6s and 7s on their back. It's stupid and I think this poll needs to be rewritten with some options.

And Buderus? PLEASE! He didn't deserve the captaincy for NSW and his only "moment of glory" was coming within inches at the beginning of the game. Fitzgibbon, great all round player, the only player there I'd consider.