Why Are Newcastle So Crap?

[mozza91]

The whole period (lets be honest, the last 20 years) is just one terrifying fever dream. You can be excused for mixing people up.

You’re not wrong. I thought it was Steve Burraston who insisted on the buy back.

 

[T-Boon]

It was Robbie Tew who insisted on the buy back.

Matt Gidley was the CEO between Tinkler and Wests. The poor bloke aged 10 years in 2 and f**ked off to run McDonalds franchises instead so he could work with a higher standard of team member.

I have had a little bit to do with the club over the years as both head of the supporters club and a minor sponsor - from the mid 2000s to date.

It has always been amateur hour to say the least.

The constant staff turn over at all levels means there was close to zero corporate knowledge in the joint at any one time. Just a revolving door of (at first) enthusiastic people thrown into roles with either little support or little capacity (or both) and then they leave quickly when they realise they can't do the job.

I could write an essay on the joint, but tldr - its a bin fire, and always has been. Needs a full re-set. Hopefully yet another CEO can turn it around.

At least the new COE is quite nice - a lot better than the former squash courts we used to squat in. When I went there last half the rooms still weren't furnished though.

I sense that most professional sports clubs (95%) are like this and probably 90% of NRL clubs and also that you can still win premierships with a bit of luck even though it is like this.

 

[macavity]

You’re not wrong. I thought it was Steve Burraston who insisted on the buy back.

Burro was the GM. Tew was the chairman. Both very good men. We would be in a much better position if Tinkler had kept Burro on instead of putting that weasel Troy Palmer in charge.

 

[macavity]

I sense that most professional sports clubs (95%) are like this and probably 90% of NRL clubs and also that you can still win premierships with a bit of luck even though it is like this.

The only other club I have had anything to do with is the Tigers, and even they were much more professional.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Ouch!

 

[Dogs Of War]

What's the highest number of pathways guys you've fielded in a game this year? Four?

We are rebuilding our juniors. You will see that happen in the next few seasons when guys we brought in are replaced.

And how it that working out for you? Are you guys keeping the right ones?

 

[HarVeeGee]

Funny you should ask that because we've seen this "team of players the Knights let go" floating around to try to make that exact point and... uhhhh...


Yeah. That team would finish last.

I really worry for the rugby league literacy of the peanut gallery, people legitimately can not seem to tell the difference between an average player who happens to be in a great side and a great player in an average side. If you look at that list and think you see a scary talent drain like you would see from the Cowboys or Tigers you need your head read. Honestly the main takeaway from this team is that it's really hard to recruit good players to Newcastle to begin with, rather than there being huge retention issues.

Should have kept Kiraz but we were one of three clubs that didn't think he had it based on his junior form, and one of those clubs was the Bulldogs well before he even got to Newy. So it's hard to put that down as a uniquely Newcastle failing. The Dogs got him back on a train and trial I think and Gus admits he barely knew who he was when he signed him. That one is just luck.

Should have kept Josh King and Zac Hosking given they're very effective players for the sort of salary they command. It's legit just these two that I think are bad losses.

Would have been good to keep Beau Fermor but that was a compassionate grounds release so it's a bit rough to ding the club for that.

If you just run through long-term pathways talent specifically, you tell me which basket of players you'd rather have:
A - Bradman Best, Dylan Lucas, Jacob Saifiti, Fletcher Sharpe, Phoenix Crossland, Fletcher Hunt, Brodie Jones, Mat Croker, Jermaine McEwen, Elijah Salesa Leaumoana, Thomas Cant.
B - Starford To'a, Josh King, Daniel Saifiti, Beau Fermor, Grant Anderson, Zac Hosking, Kurt Donoghue, Simi Sasagi, Chris Randall, Oryn Keeley, Ben Talty.

I've tried to be fair there and include varying levels of ability in those lists, rather than just name the good players the Knights kept and the bad ones who walked. Can anyone seriously say with a straight face they'd rather have list B?

 

[HarVeeGee]

We are rebuilding our juniors. You will see that happen in the next few seasons when guys we brought in are replaced.

And how it that working out for you? Are you guys keeping the right ones?

And yeah I know the Dogs are going really good right now but it's overwhelmingly on the back of a really good run of recruiting. Gus deserves a pat on the back for that.

But you can't buy a team and then also give yourself a pat on the back for pathways guys who've shown nothing in first grade yet though. Seriously turn it up. Many of them simply guys who aren't getting chances because Gus keeps signing guys over the top of them, or moving good players like Paul Alamoti and Jake Averillo on to fit them in. I guess because these allegedly great pathways aren't producing good enough players. You get credit for your juniors after they prove themselves, not before.

 

[Dogs Of War]

And yeah I know the Dogs are going really good right now but it's overwhelmingly on the back of a really good run of recruiting. Gus deserves a pat on the back for that.

But you can't buy a team and then give yourself a pat on the back for pathways guys who've shown nothing in first grade yet though. Seriously turn it up. Many of them simply guys who aren't getting chances because Gus keeps signing guys over the top of them, or moving good players like Paul Alamoti and Jake Averillo on to fit them in. I guess because these allegedly great pathways aren't producing good enough players.

Alamoti was moved on cause we needed a different type of player, primarly middles. Averillo really needed a fresh start after being moved all over the field for the Bulldogs in a very weak team and debuting was too early when he wasn't really ready for it. It seems to have served him well now movng to the Dolphins, and having played halves at the Dogs, and I don't think we are any worse off not having either. Both were moved on just as Gus got here, cause we were turning over the roster and backs for the most part are easier to replace in a pinch that a forward is.

We had no real pathways before Gus got here, cause Des Hasler ripped it all apart when he came here. Gus has put those in place, and will continue to fill gaps where those pathways aren't producting talent at the right speed. Like grabbing Leo Thompson as we need a big middle now, rather than waiting for guys like Todd to fill out. Better to bring Todd on slowly.

I'd like to see the Knights get it together, cause as I pointed out, I am a Newcastle boy who went for the Bulldogs before the Knights were even considered. Probably been to more Knights home games than most fans due to livign in Adamstown when they came into the comp.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Kind of not that different then, before Wests took over the way that pathways worked was overhauled so many times (before you even factor in the lack of money). Knights fans give Wayne Bennett a lot of crap for saddling the club with an old & overpaid roster, but what they should be mad about was his approach to juniors. He was basically given carte blanche to run everything at the club the way he liked and his brainchild was an "elite pathways" model where basically the club just decided on the 14 year olds they liked best and then this quite small squad of kids would train together year on year and then theoretically you'd have this great squad ready to go in 4-8 years.

The problem is that you get guys who look like future immortals at 14 and don't get much better, but you also get guys like Dylan Lucas who were nowhere till age 18 and just keep getting better and better. You literally can't predict who'll be good as adults so you need to cast as wide a net as possible. This is one of the things Wests had to contend with when they came in, the club was literally telling talented young kids from the region to look elsewhere because they already had a player in their position in the "elite pathways" squad. That put heaps of noses out of joint and was yet another reason why local clubs would legitimately tell kids from broader region to avoid the Knights like the plague and try to get into a different system.

The best player to come out of said squad, by the way? Probably Jack Cogger. Thanks Wayne! Stick to coaching.

 

[macavity]

We are rebuilding our juniors. You will see that happen in the next few seasons when guys we brought in are replaced.

And how it that working out for you? Are you guys keeping the right ones?

the Dogs are literally “rebuilding their juniors” by pinching half of our area while we were NRL owned and on our knees. Not something to crow about on this thread.

I was also a Dogs fan before the Knights but I love Newcastle, I don’t just live here, so I converted from day dot.

 

[macavity]

Kind of not that different then, before Wests took over the way that pathways worked was overhauled so many times (before you even factor in the lack of money). Knights fans give Wayne Bennett a lot of crap for saddling the club with an old & overpaid roster, but what they should be mad about was his approach to juniors. He was basically given carte blanche to run everything at the club the way he liked and his brainchild was an "elite pathways" model where basically the club just decided on the 14 year olds they liked best and then this quite small squad of kids would train together year on year and then theoretically you'd have this great squad ready to go in 4-8 years.

The problem is that you get guys who look like future immortals at 14 and don't get much better, but you also get guys like Dylan Lucas who were nowhere till age 18 and just keep getting better and better. You literally can't predict who'll be good as adults so you need to cast as wide a net as possible. This is one of the things Wests had to contend with when they came in, the club was literally telling talented young kids from the region to look elsewhere because they already had a player in their position in the "elite pathways" squad. That put heaps of noses out of joint and was yet another reason why local clubs would legitimately tell kids from broader region to avoid the Knights like the plague and try to get into a different system.

The best player to come out of said squad, by the way? Probably Jack Cogger. Thanks Wayne! Stick to coaching.

wayne is the biggest fraud in the game. The ultimate flat track bully.

 

[t-ba]

The only other club I have had anything to do with is the Tigers, and even they were much more professional.

 

[Apey]

View attachment 104436

Yeah most of these guys are bums and/or in positions we don't need, especially in this imaginary team line-up. There's a couple like Jenkins and Josh King that have gone to good clubs and look good/serviceable. I doubt we get out of Josh King what Melbourne get out of Josh King and that's just because we're bad.

If it was a matter of taking any of these back, it'd be Kiraz and Fermor/Hosking, and that's probably it. To'a is playing well and I think some people sell him short but we don't really need centres right now.

 

[macavity]

So interestingly talk at the press conference today was we have re-gained group 21 from the Dogs and are also looking at establishing an academy on the mid north coast.

Maybe they do read my rants after all

 

[Chins]

Funny you should ask that because we've seen this "team of players the Knights let go" floating around to try to make that exact point and... uhhhh...

View attachment 104436
Yeah. That team would finish last.

I really worry for the rugby league literacy of the peanut gallery, people legitimately can not seem to tell the difference between an average player who happens to be in a great side and a great player in an average side. If you look at that list and think you see a scary talent drain like you would see from the Cowboys or Tigers you need your head read. Honestly the main takeaway from this team is that it's really hard to recruit good players to Newcastle to begin with, rather than there being huge retention issues.

Should have kept Kiraz but we were one of three clubs that didn't think he had it based on his junior form, and one of those clubs was the Bulldogs well before he even got to Newy. So it's hard to put that down as a uniquely Newcastle failing. The Dogs got him back on a train and trial I think and Gus admits he barely knew who he was when he signed him. That one is just luck.

Should have kept Josh King and Zac Hosking given they're very effective players for the sort of salary they command. It's legit just these two that I think are bad losses.

Would have been good to keep Beau Fermor but that was a compassionate grounds release so it's a bit rough to ding the club for that.

If you just run through long-term pathways talent specifically, you tell me which basket of players you'd rather have:
A - Bradman Best, Dylan Lucas, Jacob Saifiti, Fletcher Sharpe, Phoenix Crossland, Fletcher Hunt, Brodie Jones, Mat Croker, Jermaine McEwen, Elijah Salesa Leaumoana, Thomas Cant.
B - Starford To'a, Josh King, Daniel Saifiti, Beau Fermor, Grant Anderson, Zac Hosking, Kurt Donoghue, Simi Sasagi, Chris Randall, Oryn Keeley, Ben Talty.

I've tried to be fair there and include varying levels of ability in those lists, rather than just name the good players the Knights kept and the bad ones who walked. Can anyone seriously say with a straight face they'd rather have list B?

Not getting something out of Jenkins is pretty funny though.

 

[HarVeeGee]

So interestingly talk at the press conference today was we have re-gained group 21 from the Dogs and are also looking at establishing an academy on the mid north coast.

Maybe they do read my rants after all

Just logged on to post this, great news for the club.

Having actual resources and putting them behind a real rugby league man with a great reputation like Parr is finally paying off.

 

[Wb1234]

Peter parr was unimpressive on the clip on nrl 360

Panel suggests ponga couldn’t get the dollars from Japan / France / r360

Plus they speculate he’s on board with the coaching situation down the track whether aob stays or gets replaced

Blake green is highly thought of as attack coach even though their attack is poor

 

[Woody90]

Peter parr was unimpressive on the clip on nrl 360

Panel suggests ponga couldn’t get the dollars from Japan / France / r360

Plus they speculate he’s on board with the coaching situation down the track whether aob stays or gets replaced

Blake green is highly thought of as attack coach even though their attack is poor

Anything they say about the Knights on NRL360 is 100% incorrect.