Why do merged clubs perform so poorly?

[Colk]

Also League XIII and others against the idea of relocation, it doesn’t necessarily mean moving to Perth and Adelaide; although that should definitely be on the table considering their size, it could simply mean tackling a bigger area nearby.

For example why are Manly so glued to being Manly when they are the only team north of the harbour. Why wouldn’t you look to try and become a North Sydney side including the beaches. Forget about Brookvale Oval which is a pain in the arse to get to and lobby for a North Sydney stadium or play at the SFS?

 

[Smug Panther]

The AFL grew to having billion dollar contracts with only one merger, one relocation and no clubs folding. The NRL could have done the same. The less wealthy AFL clubs running on fumes held on in that period in the 90s as the old fashioned product based on primarily gate takings transformed into what is now primarily a TV product (and much richer for it). The NRL went through the same transformational period at basically the same time, but lost 4 foundational clubs, almost lost a 5th, as well as the Dragons.

The AFL isn't magic, what it managed to do was not one of a kind or impossible to replicate. The NRL could have done the same if it didn't panic in the 90s.

A pretty good post for you but Super League did the real damage

 

[Colk]

Super League may have exacerbated the issues and brought them to a head but the before and after were more significant

 

[The_Frog]

In 07 Penrith got the spoon with 8 wins for 24 games, with a -68 differential

That would have seen us finish ahead of 6 teams this year. The 2005 Knights got the spoon having won 8 of the last 11 games.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Firstly there is that refrain again - can’t put a team because nobody would watch it. It’s a fascinating case of cognitive dissonance to me- why do you like Rugby League? Why couldn’t be there other people like you in Perth and Adelaide who may find it appealing

Lol...there are....do you want me to name them

 

[LeagueXIII]

Imagine if the sport had taken that attitude a hundred years ago. You'd all be union or afl fans now!

I have no objection to growing the game. Ive said numerous times on here bring in a Perth team an Adelaide team in the lower grade. Protect the games sydney clubs that drive the sport without them the game suffers.
Grow it so there is more for all.

 

[Colk]

I’m presuming that you live in either Adelaide or Perth from that comment. So you do know that people move around and don’t just live in the one place all their life

 

[siv]

Super League may have exacerbated the issues and brought them to a head but the before and after were more significant

Knee jerk expansion caused a lot of SL war issues

Newcastle not accepting a spot in the comp in 1982 had a butterfly effect

 

[Colk]

Knee jerk expansion perhaps. Rugby League did need to expand

 

[Colk]

I have no objection to growing the game. Ive said numerous times on here bring in a Perth team an Adelaide team in the lower grade. Protect the games sydney clubs that drive the sport without them the game suffers.
Grow it so there is more for all.

I agree that you keep the brands but it is also incumbent upon the clubs to try and grow their club. For example why don’t Manly try and take over North Sydney, why do the Sharks remain in Cronulla when it is a small water locked area which is quite a distance away from the CBD, why don’t the Dragons take over Illawarra and the South Coast, why don’t the Tigers move down to Campbelltown and try to take the area down to Marcathur considering that area Is going to be serviced by a new international airport and CBD

 

[anjado]

Doesn't work in reality on paper yes but realistically you lose half the support of the game as has been proven.
People look at Sydney clubs at the nadir of the game in the mid 90s and want them kicked out or merged. For example Souths could have been lost to the game but are now a massive asset.
Things have changed the way clubs are managed way more professionally, evening of the player distribution, club grants from TV etc. There is no reason why Norths, Saints, Balmain could not be as strong today as Souths given their popularity and support.
Everything was way too rushed in the late 90s when clubs should have held their nerve.

I agree with you that no one should have been made to merge, but I would say there was an uptick in crowd numbers in 1999. The main thing is to have all the geographical areas of Sydney represented and I don't think this has been the case since 1998. It's a hodge podge of teams and poorly thought out and since mergers happened I always try and think of mergers which would make more sense then the ones which actually happened.

I wasn't really for merging clubs together it's more because it happened.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

I agree that you keep the brands but it is also incumbent upon the clubs to try and grow their club. For example why don’t Manly try and take over North Sydney, why do the Sharks remain in Cronulla when it is a small water locked area which is quite a distance away from the CBD, why don’t the Dragons take over Illawarra and the South Coast, why don’t the Tigers move down to Campbelltown and try to take the area down to Marcathur considering that area Is going to be serviced by a new international airport and CBD

The Manly, Saints, Tigers examples you mentioned make geographical sense but where would you propose Cronulla expand to given they’re hemmed in by Saints to the north and the south and Dogs in the west? Unless you’re thinking they take some of Saints old territory? Cant see that happening in our life times, though.

 

[Colk]

You are right the Sharks are the one club you move out of Sydney and it’s surrounding regions. There is no room or potential for them to grow. When they run out money from their recent land grab they’ll come to that realisation

 

[Perth Red]

You're largely right here but that doesn't contradict my underlying point. A lot of people argue all the Sydney clubs that died were doomed and there was no getting around that without merging at least or folding. I'm saying the AFL proves you could maintain almost all your heritage while also modernising, it doesn't have to be either/or.

problem is clubs didnt want to reform. Look at the pushback to just partial centralised stadiums that Smith tried to bring in. Look at how no one has gone beyond their own boundaries to fill the hole left in NS.

 

[Valheru]

problem is clubs didnt want to reform. Look at the pushback to just partial centralised stadiums that Smith tried to bring in. Look at how no one has gone beyond their own boundaries to fill the hole left in NS.

Not completely true on the latter, roosters are making nice in roads in North Sydney.

We were meant to have a game there in 2020 and then that little thing called COVID happened. They didn't schedule one last year but hoping they do for 2022.

 

[bazza]

on the original point - I think St George-Illawarra and Wests Tigers have done as well as the 2 previous clubs that merged

Saints pre merger fluctuated between hopeless and finalists. Illawarra were on the way up from hopeless to finalists at the time of the merger
The merged team has been pretty similar

Balmain and Western Suburbs were both cellar dwellers pre merger with the odd couple of years of success mixed in with years of losing. The merged club has continued the tradition

 

[Captain Apollo]

AFL merged Fitzroy and Brisbane to great success

AS Roma in Serie A say "hi" , and Paris-St Germain in Ligue 1 in France also say "hi".

 

[Perth Red]

AS Roma in Serie A say "hi" , and Paris-St Germain in Ligue 1 in France also say "hi".

and Catalans Dragons

 

[Yosemite Sam]

on the original point - I think St George-Illawarra and Wests Tigers have done as well as the 2 previous clubs that merged

Saints pre merger fluctuated between hopeless and finalists. Illawarra were on the way up from hopeless to finalists at the time of the merger
The merged team has been pretty similar

Balmain and Western Suburbs were both cellar dwellers pre merger with the odd couple of years of success mixed in with years of losing. The merged club has continued the tradition

Saints played in 4 grand finals in the 90's (yes I realise one was after the merger) but it's still more than any other club for that decade.

 

[bazza]

Saints played in 4 grand finals in the 90's (yes I realise one was after the merger) but it's still more than any other club for that decade.

how did they go in the 80s?