Why do we bag the warriors so much?

[Beavers Headgear]

They used to cop a bit more than they probably should have

The casual follower has no idea how tough the competition is week in week out. Especially compared to the lack of competitiveness in all the rugby comps than NZ participates in

Is much the same with the Black Caps, they can win 5-6 in a row, lose 1 and then start getting bagged for inconsistency

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

And just lol at bringing in union players to save the Warriors, that's the whole problem we need to get over the fact that going local isn't the answer and it never was. Had lots of yawnion crew in our 90s teams and a fat lot of good that did us.

The game has changed a lot since the 90s.

I strongly believe that if there was absolutely no rugby union in New Zealand, the NRL top 8 finals will consist of 5 NZ teams every year. That would be Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, Canterbury and Otago. Jonah Lomu would've DESTROYED in the NRL and thats just a taste of what we would've got from the union players. Those NZ teams would be so hard to get into, we wouldn't need Aussie players.

To support what Im saying - we all know theres stuff all New Zealanders that play league but when you look at those numbers and what we've achieved in league, we've actually done well. Look at this years grass roots numbers below and imagine if there was no union...

Registered Rugby Union players in NZ: 146,893 (total) 28,648 (adults)
Clubs: 600
Registered Rugby League players in NZ: 24,000 (total) 3,550 (adult)
Clubs: 142​

You say...

going local isn't the answer

and fair enough but when you say local you mean New Zealand. To look elsewhere is ALMOST like Eskimos looking overseas for ice. NZ produces some of the FINEST talent to ever catch and run with a rugby ball and I believe there are some in NZ that ARE the answer. We just can't seem to get to them, I don't know if they get paid more in union but geez we could've used a Jerry Collins and so and so in the Warriors.

The All Blacks compete on the WORLD stage against countries with more registered playing numbers than us! The Roos apparently only compete with us. That should give you an idea of why some NZ players as low as grass roots level, get picked up from other countries for both codes. Hell the Storm picked Nelson and so and so from NZ. NZ has the quality players, no buts.

 

[ozbash]

So the problem is admin/coaching..

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

So the problem is admin/coaching..

Im just a dreamer and I wish we had a bigger piece of the pie when it comes to playing numbers. Maybe admin could work harder to persuade, maybe theres only so many that want to be a Warrior or a Kiwi in NZ, Im not sure.

They should make league fun at college level. Teenagers like being 'cool'. How about fancy playing strips with sponsors on it. Schools playing league at Thursday lunch time for other students to see and that way they can still play union on Saturdays in front of hardly anybody. How about running on to the field to music. Make league, the Warriors and the Kiwis something these youngsters want to be part of.

 

[Rich102]

Im just a dreamer and I wish we had a bigger piece of the pie when it comes to playing numbers. Maybe admin could work harder to persuade, maybe theres only so many that want to be a Warrior or a Kiwi in NZ, Im not sure.

They should make league fun at college level. Teenagers like being 'cool'. How about fancy playing strips with sponsors on it. Schools playing league at Thursday lunch time for other students to see and that way they can still play union on Saturdays in front of hardly anybody. How about running on to the field to music. Make league, the Warriors and the Kiwis something these youngsters want to be part of.

The Warriors start winning games it will solve that problem quick smart. Kids love winning!

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

The Warriors start winning games it will solve that problem quick smart. Kids love winning!

Absolutely, it does come back to that. Its inspiring to win and to entertain along the way.

 

[vvvrulz]

I strongly believe that if there was absolutely no rugby union in New Zealand, the NRL top 8 finals will consist of 5 NZ teams every year. That would be Auckland, Waikato, Wellington, Canterbury and Otago. Jonah Lomu would've DESTROYED in the NRL and thats just a taste of what we would've got from the union players. Those NZ teams would be so hard to get into, we wouldn't need Aussie players.

You're right, in a way.

But to back up that argument you have to assume that it's even possible to tap into the riches of talent that go of into union. We can't make that assumption, certainly not now and possibly never, because union has the structure, presence, and attention that league currently doesn't have in New Zealand.

We can only go on the hunt for union players if we solve the problems above first. Until then it's avoiding the real issue which is we are failing at securing talent from the current true resource of quality league players, Australia.

Kearney is trying to manufacture the Warriors team into a pseudo Kiwis team, because hey it 'worked for him' in recent times. We beat the best in the world right? This is, of course, a folly because we saw the garbage the Kiwis team are capable of dishing up, and a few stray wins don't equate to decades of poor results. Assembling a team of (questionable) all-stars won't win you 26 rounds of intense footy.

Our recruitment will be very interesting, but I suspect it will be picking up more faded out, inconsistent Kiwis from Aussie clubs.

It's just not going to work, we need leaders and fighters.

 

[legs 11]

its hard to figure if nz union players are really really good or the competition they play in is inferior...the nrl competition is certainlly the strongest of any code going around....any team can win or any day.
i think its more of a mental thing in nz...ruggers have the winning mentality and it looks like the leaguies dont.
I would certainly say that league players are generally superior athletes and footballers than rugby players...at all levels.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

its hard to figure if nz union players are really really good or the competition they play in is inferior...

Well theres defintely more people and countries that play union than league in all of the world. Theres defintely more numbers involved in Super Rugby than the NRL. South Africa, Argentina, Japan, New Zealand make up Super.

the nrl competition is certainlly the strongest of any code going around....

The NRL kills the boring NZ dominated Super Rugby. The NRL games are more dramatic and often closer compared to Super.

I would certainly say that league players are generally superior athletes and footballers than rugby players...at all levels.

Disagree. Ive played both codes at very respectable levels and I found league to be harder cardio wise but I came across a lotta good athletes playing union in NZ, a lot. We often beat them up in the boxing but nah I have to disagree there as Ive seen some real beasts, crossfit kings, powerlifting kings, track and field athletes in union.

Its too hard to conclusively determine who has the superior athletes. Back in the day you had ex All Blacks like Inga, Ridge, Botica, Timu, Schuster who played so well in league. SBW can play anything. League kingpin Sam Burgess was a nobody in union.

Even skill sets - I reckon Ben Smith from the Highlanders wouldve played better for us in that Panthers game. I like RTS but hes not as reliable in positioning, defence and ball playing as Ben Smith. I still like RTS over Ben Smith but I cant deny the consistency in Smith. Ben puts body on the line in the air and in defence, Roger 'who trains the house down' seems tired when hes chasing in defence, I seen him slow down the other week. Then yesterday RTS didnt seem to know where to stand at the back.

 

[legs 11]

i spose im thinking about the 80 and 90's when union was a real shit game.....it was played by flabby unfit accountants....union has changed so much to be like league ie having the ball in play a lot more now....rugby players can even tackle these days...well most of them

 

[legs 11]

i only played union during high school in the 80's...and it was soooo boring for me....went back to league in 85 and would never go near union again......but it has changed a lot i know.

 

[TheDMC]

Union players in nz generally have far superior skill sets than NRL players in my opinion and I have watched both codes closely for decades. Union backs have far far better passing skills, handling, and overall vision. Maybe league has better 'athletes' if by that we mean physical specimens, but that is often negated by a lack of nous and skill.

As much as I love league, the passing skills and vision of most backs in the NRL leaves me somewhat dismayed.

 

[legs 11]

btw..just to let everybody know...i'm of the generation that hate rugby haha.....looked down upon by school, forced to play 1st 15 etc.....and a crap ,game to watch and play...imo
i know its different now but in those days it was a real them and us....

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Frustration. It's difficult enough being a Leaguie in Union-saturated New Zealand, let alone being a leaguie who follows a rollercoaster club like the Warriors when you have the consistant super franchises in the other code.

But, I think Warriors fans are more passionate. the ABs drop a world cup and its akin to genocide. The Warriors drop a game and its, oh well, that was shit, how to we move on. Union fans are fake as f**k at times (maybe that was just the Auckland bunch I knew), Leaguies are loyal to the bitter (heh) end.

Warriors fans are used to their team underdelivering, so when they do convert, string a few wins together or uncover a star or two - its a big f**king deal. They stick around, and would happily cheer their team off the field after a hardfought match - win or lose. But, they do expect that effort in return for them consistantly showing up to the games, buying the season passes, the merch etc. Its just too often, the blokes on the pitch don't meet the fans halfway. Dropping a 22 point lead is pretty bad and the fans have the right to be pissed off, but something tells me they'll be popping down to Rebel Sport sooner rather than later to buy a new one.