Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[taipan]

Given there are only a handful of "rugby" schools and only a handful of "League" schools it would be most of them.

Sorry that's too vague.
You can have public schools where rl is not offered ,or the school council are against it.Why? Because seems schools anyway consider one rugby code is enough.
Unless it can be shown NRL DOs have tried all these schools and have been knocked back through lack of interest(especially with other rl form available),I'm still skeptical.

 

[Te Kaha]

Sorry that's too vague.
You can have public schools where rl is not offered ,or the school council are against it.Why? Because seems schools anyway consider one rugby code is enough.
Unless it can be shown NRL DOs have tried all these schools and have been knocked back through lack of interest(especially with other rl form available),I'm still skeptical.

You can be as skeptical as you like, but its against the public school charter to discriminate. The big issue is the funding, the NZRU helps with finding the NZRL does not and the NRL barely cares. Schools will always prioritize the more popular sports. If they can only afford to support one Rugby code, the code more kids wont to play will win out, every time.

 

[taipan]

You can be as skeptical as you like, but its against the public school charter to discriminate. The big issue is the funding, the NZRU helps with finding the NZRL does not and the NRL barely cares. Schools will always prioritize the more popular sports. If they can only afford to support one Rugby code, the code more kids wont to play will win out, every time.

It may well be the official line with the public school charter.that doesn't mean it doesn't exist,unless we live in a cave or bubble.
Your last couple of lines reinforced my point, thanks.

 

[Te Kaha]

It may well be the official line with the public school charter.that doesn't mean it doesn't exist,unless we live in a cave or bubble.

Where are the complaints then? surely if this was wide spread and was the reason League was\is unable to spread in NZ there would be many complaints... why aren't there?

Your last couple of lines reinforced my point, thanks.

Which is what? the reason that League isn't wide spread in schools is because its not very popular and its ruling bodies cant or wont find school League?

 

[taipan]

Look I'm not going to get into a he says, but he says debate, which you love.Because we are going around in circles.My points are just as valid as yours, though you don't appear to accept it.
If a school has a higher preference and emphasis for ru ,rl will hardly get a look in.
Sydney Boys High,was a classic example here .as was the state High school Wally lewis was a student in Brisbane.

My experience quite a few years ago with a NZ Auckland relative of my wife, showed me around Eden Park from the outside.His comment went something like"We play the true game rugby here ,and the other lower type of rugby ,will never get to use this famous ground".Me a guest and he knowing I followed rl,p*ssweak.

IOW the in built in anti rl sentiments were hardly hidden away.You get school councils with a bias toward one code, the other code's chances are minimal of access.

Think that is BS ,all codes regardless of their nature would want access to as many schools as possible.Money may be a limiting factor, but desire is not.AFL was not very popular in state schools in NSW either.

 

[Te Kaha]

Look I'm not going to get into a he says, but he says debate, which you love.Because we are going around in circles.My points are just as valid as yours, though you don't appear to accept it.
If a school has a higher preference and emphasis for ru ,rl will hardly get a look in.
Sydney Boys High,was a classic example here .as was the state High school Wally lewis was a student in Brisbane.

And if a school has a higher preference for League then Rugby "will hardly get a look in". That's the fault of the code with the smaller interest, not the other code. Schools can only cater for so much, if there isn't interest in a code then its not played... simple.

My experience quite a few years ago with a NZ Auckland relative of my wife, showed me around Eden Park from the outside.His comment went something like"We play the true game rugby here ,and the other lower type of rugby ,will never get to use this famous ground".Me a guest and he knowing I followed rl,p*ssweak.

And how is that ANY different to the anti Rugby sentiment that is seen on this Forum?? there will always be those who prefer one code over another or those who despise the other code. That's hardly confined to Rugby or NZ that's for sure.

IOW the in built in anti rl sentiments were hardly hidden away.You get school councils with a bias toward one code, the other code's chances are minimal of access.

Then its up to the code to do something about it. If there is genuine interest and the school wont fund it then the code must if it wants the school to play it.

We keep hearing about the billions of dollars the NRL is receiving, and given that the NZRL is run on the bones of its arse, then any change is going to have to come from that NRL money.

Playing the victim card and blaming another code, which many posts in this thread are doing, is not going to help in any way

 

[taipan]

The experience here of late, union gets a far better access in state schools than it did years ago.In fact they don't have the money to spend,the ARU is practically broke.

The difference was I was supposedly a guest of this relative.He had as much tact as O'Connor in France.

I suggest what anti ru sentiments on this forum or anywhere else for that matter:-
@ have generally little to do with a schools decision on what sport to play.
b)More rl fans are aware of what has happened historically with rugby league and rugby union,and still goes on today.
c) Rugby league for decades was ridiculed by union people for earning money to play the code, and bragged about their amateurism.As soon as Murdoch flashed his wallet the hypocrisy flowed like penalties.
d) The union press in Sydney having no problem with predicting the demise of rl,when union went openly professional.And of course the Storm would have to be moved because the Rebels were moving in.

Of course it's up to any code to fund its entry in schools, provided they get the access.I'm well aware of the poverty of the NZRL.The new Tv deal is supposedly to involved spending a bigger increase in grassroots funding.
The NRL employs 50 people in the Pacific region according to their latest report.

" Playing the victim card" is the usual expected puerile comment thrown up by cynics.
Union's historical record at times against rl is hardly civil.I played ru for 5 years in a ru only school,I've heard some of the rubbish .

 

[Knownothing]

I really do not understand the point of debates like this. Both codes have their strengths and weaknesses.


Has there been discrimination? Of course there has. Sometimes the discrimination has been overt, class-based, and unattractive.


But the simple facts of history are that RU always had the inside running, it was the Establishment's sport in the old days of Empire.


You cannot change history, Taipan. It would make a lot more sense to spend your time lobbying the powerbrokers of the game you prefer to give a lot more real emphasis to developing a solid and continuing international presence. Step one: give the international governing body money, standing, and independence.
Step two: see Step one. Step three: stop making excuses for the inaction, half-measures, and lip service that we see most of the time from the NRL, the game's acknowledged powerhouse and centre of the universe.. They need to give up some of their power.


They have far more power to influence the future for rugby league than a few motley bunches of rah rahs. Put the blame where it mostly belongs.

 

[taipan]

I really do not understand the point of debates like this. Both codes have their strengths and weaknesses.


Has there been discrimination? Of course there has. Sometimes the discrimination has been overt, class-based, and unattractive.


But the simple facts of history are that RU always had the inside running, it was the Establishment's sport in the old days of Empire.


You cannot change history, Taipan. It would make a lot more sense to spend your time lobbying the powerbrokers of the game you prefer to give a lot more real emphasis to developing a solid and continuing international presence. Step one: give the international governing body money, standing, and independence.
Step two: see Step one. Step three: stop making excuses for the inaction, half-measures, and lip service that we see most of the time from the NRL, the game's acknowledged powerhouse and centre of the universe.. They need to give up some of their power.


They have far more power to influence the future for rugby league than a few motley bunches of rah rahs. Put the blame where it mostly belongs.

Not trying to change history ,just ensuring people don't ignore it.It is what it is and the damage done is what it is, which should never be forgotten or brushed over.In fact some of the deeds continue today, although less frequent.

Well I have sent some of my hard earned to people developing the game overseas Point 1.

Rugby league continues to be stalled by Sport Accord the body which approves sport ,which in turn gives that sport the opportunity to secure funding from governments.There is a rumour the stalling involves .......fill in the blanks.
Official approval is also a drama in Sth Africa.

The RLEF has already shown it can grow the game in Europe given the limited available funding ,some provided by the European Sports Commission,some by the RLIF.
Now in 2015 the French rl has received approval, after all these decades to develop the code through primary and secondary schools in France.It took 74 years ,wow ,to finally get accepted.

You obviously can't read, I'm not making excuses for inaction.International growth is the remit of the RLIF/RLEF not the NRL.Action is happening.I'm citing situations that do exist at times.I cited NZ with my experience and what has happened in Sydney.
I've seen how rl is growing in Fiji first hand.

The very reason the RLWC is being held every 4 years ,this year in the Southern Hemispheres ,is to secure funding for International Development.The funding from the profits runs into a few million not hundreds of millions.You need to keep up to speed.

Your last para shows complete denial, glibly suggesting a few motley bunches of rah rah.Road blocks have been put along the way, not by individuals.

Couldn't even play rl in the British Armed Service til the 90s.It took a Committee of UK parliamentarians in rl areas ,to lobby to get rl access.

Rugby league is played in more countries now, yes at a footprint level, than any time of its existence.

No need to lecture me or the RLEF on what should be done.It's work in progress.

 

[Te Kaha]

The experience here of late, union gets a far better access in state schools than it did years ago.In fact they don't have the money to spend,the ARU is practically broke.

And its exactly the same for League in NZ, better access but no money to do anything about it. Nothing to do with any prejudice or any "under handedness" from any other code.

The difference was I was supposedly a guest of this relative.He had as much tact as O'Connor in France.

So? he was an arsehole, just like many on here. There are arseholes who play, support, run all codes.

Of course it's up to any code to fund its entry in schools, provided they get the access.I'm well aware of the poverty of the NZRL.The new Tv deal is supposedly to involved spending a bigger increase in grassroots funding.
The NRL employs 50 people in the Pacific region according to their latest report.

The access is already there, the support is not.

" Playing the victim card" is the usual expected puerile comment thrown up by cynics.
Union's historical record at times against rl is hardly civil.I played ru for 5 years in a ru only school,I've heard some of the rubbish .

And the "I played rugby so I must know how bad its" is just as expected and puerile. So what, your five years amounts to squat. I played League for 20 odd years, coached for 10 and even reffed for a couple. In that time I saw so much self interest and self destructive behavior that killed good stable and strong clubs, Prevented growth and drove many away from the game. Time playing another code doesn't make anyone an expert on it or its "culture".

If you want to know the biggest cause of the lack of growth in league, its self interest. Clubs like the status quo, they only ever care about themselves. In the 90s League in NZ was equal to Rugby in popularity, now barely anyone watches it on tv and they only watch the Warriors, who barely make it over 100K viewers. Had the various League bodies done something there could have been 2 or three competitive clubs with huge followings, instead of a code that barely registers anymore.

Rugby league continues to be stalled by Sport Accord the body which approves sport ,which in turn gives that sport the opportunity to secure funding from governments.There is a rumour the stalling involves .......fill in the blanks.

Blaming it on rumors shows just how ingrained the victim card is.

 

[taipan]

Divide a response, piece by piece for effect.
I'm not going to argue with you anymore ,you want the finally word.You are not going to convince nor have you.

I will say this, my experience with ru and knowing the history of the past and what continues now, suggests when opportunities arise to put roadblocks in the way of a competitor, they are experts when it suits.

As far as Sport Accord is concerned ,no other sport other than union has any interest, in seeing rl not included.As far as SASCOR is concerned check who is on the board.

BTW I'm aware of NRL club's self interest, that;s why we haven't expanded.I've been following union and league probably before you were born.The NRL are not the RLIF nor the RLEF.

And the point you make about rl in NZ,you can make about ru in Australia.Except they through SANZAR thought bringing in other countries would solve the problem.Have a look at the Oz union crowds last weekend.
And union crowds are down in NZ I understand.

 

[Te Kaha]

And the point you make about rl in NZ,you can make about ru in Australia.

*FACEPALM* That WAS my point... the decline of a sport doesn't require a mythical entity trying to "kill" it and playing victim doesnt do anything to rectify it.

BTW I'm aware of NRL club's self interest, that;s why we haven't expanded.I've been following union and league probably before you were born.The NRL are not the RLIF nor the RLEF.

Wow.. in your 70s and on the internet? like many things you post your assumptions are seldom accurate.

And union crowds are down in NZ I understand.

except last year they were up... as were primetime viewing numbers.

 

[Jankuloski]

Because a debate about INTERNATIONAL Rugby League ends with a 10 page discussion about Whales and NZ.

 

[Timmah]

Mascord has reported today that for the second year in a row, the Sports Accord has denied the RLIF's application to join.

Last year World Rugby lodged an objection, apparently not directly because of us but something Sports Accord themselves did... no idea why this time around.

 

[Coastbloke]

Until we all unite - and by that I mean NRL, ESL, RLIF etc etc - this sport will go nowhere internationally. I hate saying that but it's cold hard truth.

Our rival will play 8th ranked nation against their 14th and get a 80,000 crowd. Our sports' bosses put on a Test against 1 and 2 at a 25,000 capacity stadium and 3 and 4th at Campbelltown..

How can anyone takes us seriously when we treat supposedley the pinnacle of our game like that..

 

[taipan]

Mascord has reported today that for the second year in a row, the Sports Accord has denied the RLIF's application to join.

Last year World Rugby lodged an objection, apparently not directly because of us but something Sports Accord themselves did... no idea why this time around.

Unless there is a valid reason spelt out by Sports Accord,I will reserve judgement.It still smells fishy.

 

[adamkungl]

Hard to believe World Rugby don't have a hand in this again

 

[Knownothing]

Hard to believe World Rugby don't have a hand in this again

Why would they bother? Fair dinkum, mate. They're too busy running international contests. The Vancouver Sevens this weekend, for example. If rugby league did a bit more to actually put international games on the agenda, maybe some of these perceived injustices would disappear.


There is nothing like the odd self-inflicted wound, either by commission or omission, to keep the game at home. Home being Australia, of course.

 

[adamkungl]

Why would they bother? Fair dinkum, mate.

Good question. They bothered enough last time round though. Oh wait, they were concerned about the process, not blocking RLIF specifically. But that just happened to be a side effect.

As i've said earlier in this thread and others, the victim mentality is largely pointless when there is so much that could be done. But here we have RL trying to do something positive which should be a mere formality but is miraculously delayed time and time again, with WR having clear form here.

But yeah, why would they bother...

 

[taipan]

Good question. They bothered enough last time round though. Oh wait, they were concerned about the process, not blocking RLIF specifically. But that just happened to be a side effect.

As i've said earlier in this thread and others, the victim mentality is largely pointless when there is so much that could be done. But here we have RL trying to do something positive which should be a mere formality but is miraculously delayed time and time again, with WR having clear form here.

But yeah, why would they bother...

It's not their go.No precedents.
Another great porker flew by my window.