What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why why why why?

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,019
I'm glad there some people who can use some sense, instead of the typical "Gen Y are stoopid" "Hollywood aren't as smart as they use to be" "Ah, they don't make movies like they used to" "People younger than 30 are evil" "I haven't had an erection since Basic Instinct"

People look back into the past & just think of all the classic movies. I could go through all the hundreds of shithouse movie from every single decade...... but no one remembers them.


Not only that, people look back at the past and think absolute steaming turds like Point Break are classics.

Lets be clear here, Point Break is a classic 90s movie like Vanilla Ice is a classic 90s rap artist.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Not only that, people look back at the past and think absolute steaming turds like Point Break are classics.

Lets be clear here, Point Break is a classic 90s movie like Vanilla Ice is a classic 90s rap artist.

IMO this is why so many sequels/remakes struggle.

Right time, right place, right audience.

Repeating years later often just doesn't fit no matter how hard they try to wedge that square peg into a round hole.
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
Not only that, people look back at the past and think absolute steaming turds like Point Break are classics.

Lets be clear here, Point Break is a classic 90s movie like Vanilla Ice is a classic 90s rap artist.

In your opinion of course.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
Like music it all comes down to personal opinion. Half those movies you mentioned imo are just pure cash grabs.

And saying a film "looks" worthwhile means little until it's actually released. The film business is a marketing/advertising business first and foremost. They spend millions to make sure everything "looks" worthwhile.

I'll watch anything, and will probably watch most if not all the movies on that list (plus more no doubt). Some will be great, others terrible, some will exceed expectations and others not live up to the hype.

Doesn't change the fact that story wise unless it has a director attached who can call the shots and dictate to the studio, any big budget studio film is going to be based off the same story formula. The only thing that changes is the directors style, special effects, color etc.

I love switching off the brain and watching films, but the ones I truly enjoy are the ones with fresh original stories. These are very rare in big budget films where they want everything based off the formula that makes money.

Well there's about 60 films coming out this year that I didn't list. And with saying 'worthwhile' I mean I like the look of the trailers/plot/directors/writers.
What do you mean cash grabs? All movies are made to make money. The ones I listed do not have recognisable plots and are quite original. Directors like Wes Anderson, Aronofsky, Pfister, Singer, Nolan, Eastwood, The Wachowskis, Fincher, Braff and Paul Thomas Anderson put a lot of effort into their films and probably worked on them for years.

The point is you said there is not much original thought in Hollywood. I'm saying it's just the same, or even better, as it's always been. And there is definitely writers and filmmakers that put a lot of effort and original thought into their movies. Sometimes that's even a bad thing because they change the source material too much. I wish there was less 'original thought' in The Hobbit, for example.

And not every film starts off with the same formula, that's silly. You do not need a high ranking director to make a good film. A lot of writers and producers actually want to make good films too, you know.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
I don't understand why people put so much emphasis on 'originality' now anyway. It's incredibly hard to come up with something completely original. I get frustrated at the remakes and reboots too, but when people complain about movies being based off something else? Movies have always been like that. Most of the best movies are based off books or borrowed ideas from books or movies. Who cares?
What do you want Hollywood to do, release 100+ completely original movies that don't borrow any elements from anything else every year?
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,019
In your opinion of course.


Short of the ex-presidents robbing banks in happy pants and hypercolour T shirts you couldn't get a more quintessential 90s movie if you tried.

Not saying I don't enjoy watching it. I was a kid when I watched it so of course I loved it and will always love it since I can always apply my rose-coloured filter. Doesn't make it any less terrible though
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
*sigh*

90% of what you've interpreted I never actually said.

You need to separate the studio (money hungry business) from the filmmakers (creative artists). It's a never ending battle over money, power, control.

A lot (if not the large majority) of those films you didn't list aren't studio films, they're independent 9and I mean genuine independent, not independent films dressed up with studio money).

Cash grabs are when a film is made solely for quick cash rather than any genuine attempt from the studio to make a worthwhile film. EVERY filmmaker will try to do the best they can, crew/actors likewise, but if they don't have the control they get dictated to by the standard formula of what a movie should and shouldn't look like /be. There are always exceptions that break the mould, it's the same evolution for any industry.

When did I say a film needed a good director? I said that only the proven directors have the clout to tell the studio "no, I'm not doing it your way, this is how I WANT it to be."

In studio films, YES, films start off with the same formula (I believe we can thank Blake Snyder for this). They're designed to hit "beats" both positive and negative, but never more than two of the same in a row for that roller coaster effect. Of course they don't start with the same concept, and there are variations, but unless you're already an established writer/filmmaker if you go to a studio with a script/concept that is removed from what's expected it will go no further than the slush pile and will likely never even reach the hands of a person who has the potential to get it made.

Only a director, such as the ones you've mentioned (guys whose style have proven money making) can walk into a studio and say that they're going to do it their way.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
No you've interpreted what I've said wrong.
- Plenty of studio heads or employees actually care about their movies too. Walt Disney created probably the biggest film studio of the time and cared a lot.
- No, the large majority are not independent. And that doesn't matter anyway as my original post was there is still original thought in movies, which there are. Look at this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_in_film
And you will see a studio next to nearly every film.
- None of those films listed are cash grabs, hence why I listed them.
- Many first time directors have released good movies.
- Oh I'm glad you've seen the script of each and every film that's passed through a Hollywood studio. Peter Jackson rolled up to New Line Cinema with a handful of independent horror films to his name and said 'I want to make a massive fantasy trilogy called Lord of the Rings, production will take 5 years and will cost $600 million+.'
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
Short of the ex-presidents robbing banks in happy pants and hypercolour T shirts you couldn't get a more quintessential 90s movie if you tried.

Not saying I don't enjoy watching it. I was a kid when I watched it so of course I loved it and will always love it since I can always apply my rose-coloured filter. Doesn't make it any less terrible though

I'd hard call it "an absolute steaming turd" though.

Of course it's not a classic in a cinematic masterpiece sense, but it's a pretty universally loved movie. Otherwise some studio wouldn't fork out for a re-make.

There are some movies from that era that I watch again today and it is a tremendous piece of sh*t. I watched Point Break a few months ago and thought it still holds up. Much better than what passes for an action flick these days.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
A studio film is like a new housing estate. It can be decorated, painted, altered and changed on the outside, but the foundations remain the same for each of them.

Everyone wants the movie they're involved in to be good, of course they care to that degree, but the amount of research, data, revenue estimates and market research they undertake for them confidently say "this will make money" before it's even given the greenlight to be filmed is astounding.

Marvel have movies in development through to 2021. Of course the filmmakers will care, the actors, the crew, but if Captain America 2 bombs and costs the studio 100 mil ( I doubt it would just an example) you can be sure their won't be a third, they'll drop it in a heartbeat.

of course first time directors release good movies, hell, studio films are often good movies, that's not what I'm arguing. It doesn't change the fact that they're fundamentally designed to hot the same beats at the same time in the story.

Save the cat by Blake Snyder is the book I was referring to. It's been adopted by Hollywood as the guide to screenwriting. It lays out the main 15 beats, when certain things should happen and even says what page they should occur. 15 beats in a 100 page script still leaves wiggle room for that original thought no doubt and directors/actors/writers will attempt to get as much as they can into it, but it doesn't change my point that the fundamental foundations are close to the same for the majority of studio films.

Now there's some quack out there who is offering to doctor scripts for studios using data based on the past 30 years of Hollywood films to decide whether or not their films have "box office potential".
 

T.S Quint

Coach
Messages
14,723
I'm hoping that list isn't supposed to be the best original stuff for 2013...

Her - "let's stretch a 21 minute Big Bang Theory plot over an entire movie"
Last Vegas - "It's the hangover... but with old f**ks!"
Pacific Rim - "Think Godzilla... now add transformers!"
After Earth - "Will Smith's son's twitter gets a lot of followers. We should star him in a movie somehow"
Movie 43 - "All these A list hollywood stars have been asking about making a comedy. Lets make the worst f**king thing possible to take them down a peg"
White House Down - "Channing Tatum and Jamie Fox are starring. So we have to make both their characters the most bad ass f**ks alive as per their standard contracts"
The Internship - "Gen Y are quirky and weird. Add 2 older guys for fish out of water shenanigans"

As I said, that's only a small amount of movies released last year.
And I never said that they were all good - just that they weren't sequels or remakes.
 

urban eel

Juniors
Messages
2,024
:crazy:
No one can come near Swayze in that movie, he f**king owned.

Not happy with this, but in saying that I'll probably watch it and complain the whole time.
We need this kind of fresh thinking in the walking dead thread
 

Zigwaa

Bench
Messages
2,744
:crazy:
We need this kind of fresh thinking in the walking dead thread


Hahaha!!! Funny you should mention that, I stopped reading the Walking Dead thread because it was making me too cynical when watching the show.
 

kit66

Bench
Messages
4,091
I recently bought the original Point Break for a few bucks simply because I remembered it being an OK flick of the so bad it's good ilk. It has three of hollywoods biggest hams in Keanu, Swayze and the terrible Gary Busey. I just can't take Keanu or Swayze seriously in any of their movies and mostly avoid them altogether ( except Next Of Kin with Swayze ). The surf scenes are ridiculous and so is the last 15 minutes or so. Good for a laugh but, I guess.
I don't care if they remake it because it was pretty crap to begin with, not like it's a classic or anything. Gerard Butler in a surf flick though does not compute.
 

Evil_Mush

Juniors
Messages
1,037
How the hell can you improve Short Circuit.

The movie was perfection


Agreed, watching this last year for the first time since the 90s, it still holds up really well in all aspects (effects, story, comedy). NO DISASSEMBLE!!!!

Also watched the sequel, which I didn't enjoy as much.
 

T.S Quint

Coach
Messages
14,723
Does it not take any originality to make a sequel?
Apart from a couple of movies (The Hangover Part 2 which was pretty much the exact same movie as the first) it still needs a new story, just involving established characters.
 

DB

First Grade
Messages
6,400
Well, well, well..... haven't the tables turned Nathan.

How embarrassment for you!
 

Latest posts

Top