WiL Round 16 | Knights 38-20 Tigers @ Hunter | Mon 7.00pm

[IanG]

Come on IanG, noones gonna call Beau a wanker, he's great.

Copped a few doggies gestures as he walked off too. Wonder if that'll be on The Footy Show on Thursday Night. that and the ref slipping over

 

[perverse]

i don't think i have to explain why i'm not going to bother discussing points such as "it's a part of the game". obviously an untestable, immeasurable and unarguable point to make. once again you have to deal with hypothetical notions to get anywhere with that one. i'm just talking about what actually is, and what you can plan for.

yes, momentum swings, but we have to the be team that dictates terms from now on. are we really pushing to be a dominant team, or are we just pushing to get the most out of the cards we're dealt? that's the difference, here. Bennett is trying to implement a structure whereby we're the ones that dictate the terms on the field, like so many great teams of the past have done.

i really think the "take the tap" mentality is that of the team that scrapes into 8th, not the one that asserts its authority and dominates its way into the top 4.

 

[K-Man]

i'm not talking in hypotheticals, and i've already said if we're knocking it on in our own end then we have far greater dramas than taking the 2. my whole premise is built upon not being that team - and i set up that premise at the very beginning of the discussion.

K-mans arguments are absolutely built on hypotheticals. what if this, how about that, etc. myself and JW are the complete opposite even, our argument is based on what is CERTAIN if you take the 2. it is certain every single time. you WILL get a kick at goal. it WILL eat up time on the clock, you WILL get 2 points, you WILL get possession back. these are all desirable, measurable and guaranteed.

You WILL give your opponent a more realistic chance at scoring the number of tries required to win.

Penalty goal = some positives, but game is definitely not killed off.

Tap = some positives, game is not killed off if you don't score, but game is killed off if you do score.

Only one method offers the chance for the killer blow. Both methods involve the possibility for things to still go wrong. So why not attpempt to take your chance when you have it?

 

[K-Man]

K-Man set up the 10 minutes on the clock analogy. i was only running with what he said. i wasn't checking the clock every minute at the ground - i have to completely turn my head away from the action to do so. you can probably keep a better eye on the clock watching on TV.

18 minutes is still absolutely fine in my mind. as i said, it irked me at the ground, but the more i've discussed it today the more confident i am it was the correct decision.

Surely the fact it irked you at all, ever, shows that you have to at least acknowledge it is a potentially worthwhile strategy?

The way you went on about it before was like you'd never heard anything so utterly stupid.

 

[Big Tim]

Perverse, I am with you. I was annoyed, but the mere fact we took the guaranteed points, put us in a position to take the game to the magic "three try" buffer with out 2nd penalty goal. If we didnt take the first, we shouldnt have taken the 2nd.

Its called min/maxxing.

Minimum risk, for maximum result. We could have got the best result, a converted try, but the chances of that pale in comparison to the chances of getting 2 points, chewing clock and getting the ball back.

When you are leading the game, and time is against the opposition, taking the 2 is always the right option mathematically. Whilst situations may compel you to do otherwise, points are points, and they arent always easy to obtain.

 

[K-Man]

i don't think i have to explain why i'm not going to bother discussing points such as "it's a part of the game". obviously an untestable, immeasurable and unarguable point to make. once again you have to deal with hypothetical notions to get anywhere with that one. i'm just talking about what actually is, and what you can plan for.

yes, momentum swings, but we have to the be team that dictates terms from now on. are we really pushing to be a dominant team, or are we just pushing to get the most out of the cards we're dealt? that's the difference, here. Bennett is trying to implement a structure whereby we're the ones that dictate the terms on the field, like so many great teams of the past have done.

i really think the "take the tap" mentality is that of the team that scrapes into 8th, not the one that asserts its authority and dominates its way into the top 4.

Not what the Broncos of the 90s thought, and I recall they went okay.

 

[perverse]

why limit it to the Broncos of the 90's? why not say the golden era Knights? just because teams have had success with star studded, international quality teams does not mean we should play like we have internationals from 1 -> 17.

i really can't explain any more than i have. we can talk hypotheticals and anecdotes all day and get nowhere. as Tim said, it's purely a case of min/maxing. you minimize your risk and maximize your gain. it is rare that the tap is a better decision with this in mind... and i can only really imagine it being the case when you're chasing a sizable lead with limited time left.

 

[Big Tim]

why limit it to the Broncos of the 90's? why not say the golden era Knights? just because teams have had success with star studded, international quality teams does not mean we should play like we have internationals from 1 -> 17.

i really can't explain any more than i have. we can talk hypotheticals and anecdotes all day and get nowhere. as Tim said, it's purely a case of min/maxing. you minimize your risk and maximize your gain. it is rare that the tap is a better decision with this in mind... and i can only really imagine it being the case when you're chasing a sizable lead with limited time left.

In this situation you dont have the right to be min/maxxing. You are looking for absolute maximum reward for any and all effort put in.

Put it this way, my rule would be (speaking in hypotheticals like we are) if you are a converted try or more ahead in the 2nd half, the 2 is ALWAYS the best option.

 

[The Showstopper]

There is nothing hypothetical when u want to make a team like the Tigers score four times instead of three. I'd rather take the punt on an lead of 18 than be ruing leading by 16 with Benji lining up for another potential 2002 Hazem el Masri moment.

 

[Apey]

I didn't have a huge problem with the penalty at the time. I'm not sure whether it was the better option for us or not.

What I do know is though that I was absolutely thrilled the Tigers chose to take one at 12 - 0 down. In fact, it amazed me that they did. It is definitely the safe(r) option, but against a team like ours whose defence had been shaky and lacking confidence lately? Jeez, I'm fairly confident they would have scored.

 

[The Showstopper]

Very un Tigers to take the two when only leading by 12 that early. Either arrogant as in the game was done in their minds or the more likely is that they r not enjoying footy cos of the obvious struggle with Mrs Farah's sad passing and were hoping we would have another poor night.

 

[Silent Knight]

I really think we need to dictate terms.

 

[9701]

I really think we need to dictate terms.

Wally? Who knew you were a knights fan

 

[Yosh]

I think since there was only 12 of them and we had Boyd and Tahu on fire, i would have taken my chances at a try. If they still had 13 and we were playing average i'd have taken the two. I think either way last night it didn't make ANY difference as we were th superior team for 65 minutes.

Let's concentrate on the positives boys as it might only last a week lol.

Our completion rate was out of this world. We hold onto the ball like that and we're gonna win more games than not. We can build on the basics and i also loved the platform laid down by our forwards.

Eddy: was effective. Not outstanding bu effective. His big hits can really change the momentum of a match and if he can improve his attacking game like he showed us today, he can be a real assest. Maybe the headgear helped hahaha..

Gagai was wow. We actually have someone who trouble opposition defences.

Mason was huge again...

On the phone so i'll add more of my thoughts later. Thanks for caring.

 

[Zoidberg]

Wow, such a long discussion over a 50/50 call.
I don't think people on either side of the fence will change their mind.

I thought it was an odd decision to go for the 2 but considering how we had been traveling it was a good call. Settle things down, get another 2 points, start a new set from our end against 12 men, work on working it out from our end. Small things to add to our confidence. That's exactly what we needed from that game more than the actual win, was to play well.

Didn't see the ref falling on tv Ian but I did hear the crowd cheering about something off screen, must've been that.

 

[justagamemate]

When Bennett was the coach of the Dragons they always took the 2 no matter how far they were in front.
Back in the days when Langer was around the Broncos always took the quick tap.

 

[voltron]

I didn't have a huge problem with the penalty at the time. I'm not sure whether it was the better option for us or not.

What I do know is though that I was absolutely thrilled the Tigers chose to take one at 12 - 0 down. In fact, it amazed me that they did. It is definitely the safe(r) option, but against a team like ours whose defence had been shaky and lacking confidence lately? Jeez, I'm fairly confident they would have scored.

yeah i saw that, i was confident that we'd get back in it

i honestly think that was the turning point.

the tigers werent going to turn the screws, but eased off the gas.

 

[Pedge1971]

I get the impression Bennett isn't that keen on Costigan. I can't see him being re-signed.

He deadset plays 40 minutes a game if he's lucky. 27 minutes last night. Weird for a name backrower who really isn't an impact player.

Weird thing is Nev was his front rower in the premiership winning Dragons. why no more love?

If anything you would think Wayne would know how to get the best out of Nev.

 

[Jobdog]

One thing I noticed and it's probably only a very minor thing, but at halftime the boys seemed intent on just walking to the sheds (no problem), but Willie chirped up with "jog it off boys". Minor maybe, but good to see a bit of leadership IMO.

 

[Rod]

I get the impression that Willie is fantastic when it comes to that sort of thing. Just so much energy, must be a great lift for the young guys to have him there constantly urging them on.