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Willie's Weekly Column

miccle

Bench
Messages
4,334
Cry me a river.

Honestly, it all comes down to the environment you work in. I know that it's easier for Sydney players to be lured away to clubs in the same city with big cash incentives, but surely many would stay for less to repay the club and because they are happy there?

The Broncos have lost quite a number of players to rival clubs. Many of them are more "potential stars" who don't have the patience to wait.

But, I dare say, at least half or even more of our current top 17 have had offers to play elsewhere for more money, but they have stayed true regardless.

Take a paycut to keep the boys together and to keep the club a fun and caring place to be.

It's not up to the NRL or other clubs, it's up to the individual... though some small concessions are obviously warranted.
 

mattyg

Bench
Messages
4,170
:clap:

ill start with the players that have played for other clubs before bulldogs:

- Luke Patten (Dragons): We got him when he was relatively a no name, played a few years with them and we got him for his speed relatively cheaply. Has definately gotten better since joining us

- Willie Tonga (Parramatta): Played about 4 first grade games for parramatta, Brian Smith told him he wasn't good enough for first grade. We gave him a chance on 40k a year. Within 15 games he was playing for QLD, and by the end of the year for Australia.

- Daniel Holdsworth (Dragons): Was always stuck behind Trent Barrett at the Dragons. Played a few first grade games but has improved a great deal this season and still has more room for improvement

- Mark O'Meley (Manly): Fair enough, he was a relatively established first grader at manly/northern eagles. He came to us because Manly couldn't afford to pay his contract and he has a family to support. He represented Australia a few times now playing for us and is a much better footballer

- Andrew Ryan (Parramatta): Bench player at parramatta, now he is a captain, and has captained a premiership winning team.

Ok thats 5 players that have played first grade for other clubs before the bulldogs. 2 of them (Ryan and O'Meley) were established first graders and the other 3 were generally stuck in premier league.

Now lets see the players we have bought at a young age and developed into great players:

- Roy Asotasi (NZ)
- Willie Mason (AUS)
- Reni Maitua (City)
- Nate Myles (QLD)
- Chris Armit (i think he may have played a few games for parra though)
- Sonny Bill Williams (NZ)

Thats 6 players off the top of my head that we have developed. Not to mention Anasta and Pricey.

So your argument that we are trying to buy a premiership is rubbish. We have not paid more than 200k for a player since 2001. Compare that to the like os Roosters, Manly, Souths, Parra, Cowboys...well pretty much every other club really. Willie Mason saying the Roosters are trying to buy a premiership is spot on in my opinion. They have lost there edge in the past 2 years and just like Manly have done, will need to buy big name players to be successful again, as they are not capable of developing there own players.

I think it is totally unfair for a club to put in so much time and effort (7 years in Roy Asotasi's case) into a player and not be able to keep them due to the salary cap. As someone said earlier, concessions should be made for players depending on there time at the club. 10% for 4-7 years, 20% for 8-10 years and 30% for 10+ years. Bulldogs then could have offered a significant amount more to Roy and a few other juniors which is only fair since we put in the work developing them.
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,678
As a dragons supporter I definately condone the discounting for developing your own players. We have, and still are suffering as a result of no discount. Clubs should be rewarded for developing their own, not penalised.
 

mattyg

Bench
Messages
4,170
Agree mate. That would pretty much make the deserving clubs (mainly Bulldogs, Dragons, Parra) more successful. The system of discounting 10% for 4-7 years with a club, 20% for 8-10 and 30% for 10+ would be great IMO. Stuff this evening up the comp bullcrap. Its frustrating to constantly lose brilliant players to crap teams. A system like this would allow clubs to pay $300,000 for a player (who has been at the club 4-7 years)where only $250,000 is counted under the salary cap. Perfect IMO.
 

SSFC Hitman

Juniors
Messages
882
You know what i love though. Graeme hughes who just about recruited ALL those players is now recruiting for Souths. Also Anasta, Maitua had would have still been with souths had they not been kicked out. Add Wing to the list also. So in essence Souths lost 2 very good promisingplayers to the Dogs and gained 1 great one.

How about the players that Souths have produced and gone onto other clubs.
McCarthy to Canterbury
Roberts, Branigan to Manly
Coote, Wing to Easts
We had to endure it for a decade, so now it's their turn.

Lets not forget that the current Bulldogs team has been allowed to develop together due to the salary cap disgrace a few years back.

They fostered all the talent they could by cheating and basically kept the nucleus of the team (they didnt lose anyone they wanted to keep, even Price). And what was the penalty? A premiership 2 years later!

Of course they are successfull and have young players that want to play with them But do not forget how that came about.

Anyway good luck to the Dogs. It seems they have established a way to win a comp and the Warriors tried to copy it though unsuccessful. It doesnt give Mason the right to sh!t on others. I wonder what he thought when we smashed them last year. This years game was no push over either.

However, in saying all of this, Mason is pretty much on the ball. But this was the way it was for us previously. Now its the dogs turn.

For souths, It's up to us to prove him wrong. It is absolutely time to get our act together on the field.
 

Slappy

Juniors
Messages
1,530
Good old Mason, if he could only keep his big ugly trap shut, he might be remembered as a devastating forward instead of the biggest goose in the NRL.
Seriously, with the money he is on, he should just keep his mouth shut instead of trying to bring attention to losing team mates over money. The Ghost writer knows this and is only too happy to translate Big Willie's gibbering into an article that will be at the very least controversial. Unfortunately, Willie is too dim to see the irony.
Oh and he wants to be a leader too!:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Sea_Eagles_Rock

First Grade
Messages
5,216
_Johnsy said:
As a dragons supporter I definately condone the discounting for developing your own players. We have, and still are suffering as a result of no discount. Clubs should be rewarded for developing their own, not penalised.

You suffer for having a greater pool of players and local heros? you have better depth and often have players stay for less money?

Is that not a competitive advantage already? Would you rather no salary cap that is currently stopping clubs from attacking you more?

It's in the interest of the game talent is evenly spread.
 

mattyg

Bench
Messages
4,170
haha i know he first palyed for norths, i have been convincing my manly supporting brother he started at norths for years now he just wont believe it. We got him from manly after the northern eagle experiment failed. Yeah i also know that they both played origin before they came to us, but its not as if they were as good as they are today. As i said, o'meley now plays for australia, as does ryan. They didn't at there old clubs.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
mattyg said:
haha i know he first palyed for norths, i have been convincing my manly supporting brother he started at norths for years now he just wont believe it. We got him from manly after the northern eagle experiment failed. Yeah i also know that they both played origin before they came to us, but its not as if they were as good as they are today. As i said, o'meley now plays for australia, as does ryan. They didn't at there old clubs.

O'Melley was on the verge of playing for Australia. he was only about 22 when he left the NE. The Dogs did not make him. Same with Ryan. This is a perfect case of somebody else developing the player and the Dogs taking them. Tonga is another one and don't tell me that the Dogs developed and made him in 6 months.

Maybe Big Willie should become familiar with the words pot kettle black.
 

mattyg

Bench
Messages
4,170
dogs didn't develop tonga give me a break...He played about 4 first grade games for parramatta, he was told he wasn't good enough for first grade. We picked him up for 40k and over the off season turned him into a good player. Wow we have taken 2 developed players. Look at Roosters and Manly. There whole team relies on buying already developed players. Nobody can say that we haven't developed the majority of our squad ourselves.
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,678
Sea eagles rock,

So clubs who cannot recruit/develop their own players should be subsidised by clubs who can. yes we have a large nursery, but we still loose a lot of young players, who develop with other clubs. STEWART is one of them. Other clubs who do not have as large a nursery than we do, still have excellent talent identification programmes in place. if your club is struggling to identify young talent then develop them, not our problem. Look in your own backyard.
 

Sea_Eagles_Rock

First Grade
Messages
5,216
You are gaining by developing players. You have heaps of depth when injury strikes and once in first grade they are more likely to stay for less money. Ben Creagh - Prime example. You also cannot fit them all in. What you are basically saying is you think some players should be held back because you have a wealth of depth??? It's dumb. You have a competitive advantage and earning too.

A balanced competition is far more important then some whinge about retaining players.


btw... Manly is currently 5th in PL and 7th in Flegg. And have gone well the last few seasons? Define developing a player??? As pointed out, many of the players at the Dogs were not 'developed' at Belmore. They were bought established. They certainly did add some polish though to most of their talent though.
 

humpy

Juniors
Messages
64
mattyg said:
dogs didn't develop tonga give me a break...He played about 4 first grade games for parramatta, he was told he wasn't good enough for first grade. We picked him up for 40k and over the off season turned him into a good player. Wow we have taken 2 developed players. Look at Roosters and Manly. There whole team relies on buying already developed players. Nobody can say that we haven't developed the majority of our squad ourselves.

You are fair dinkum kidding. The Roosters team of 2001 - 2003 included the following players:-

Hegarty, Mini, Cross, Wing, Crocker, Flannery, Cusack, Fletcher, Jason Cayless, Finch, & even Hodges.

All of these players either came through our lower grades or rejects from other clubs (cayless was bench player at Eels), and all only played representative football after coming to us. Once their contracts come up for renewal, they go from being a player on $60k - $100k and all of a sudden thry are worth $250+.

Basic math says you can't keep all of them and therefore half leave so you can keep the other half.

Nothing against the dogs, but they are now coming into this zone where players that were on small contracts are up for renewal and they can not keep everyone. The cycle will continue for all clubs, and the ones that survive are the ones that manage to keep the good, and release / not sign those that are expendable (i.e offloading Heggarty to Souths on mega bucks).

As for juniors, I agree that clubs like the dragons have an incredible nursery, but when you have an area the size of Tasmania as the nursery, you should be getting 10 times more juniors than Roosters & Souths sharing an area the size of Sydney.

As for the Roosters buying big name players, in the last 3 years, we have brought Finch, Monaghan, Anasta, Harrison & now Myles. Considering the number and quality of players we have lost and had retire, I don't think this is too bad.
 

CharlieF

Juniors
Messages
1,440
mattyg said:
dogs didn't develop tonga give me a break...He played about 4 first grade games for parramatta, he was told he wasn't good enough for first grade. We picked him up for 40k and over the off season turned him into a good player. Wow we have taken 2 developed players. Look at Roosters and Manly. There whole team relies on buying already developed players. Nobody can say that we haven't developed the majority of our squad ourselves.

Your Kidding!

Its like saying Manly made Ben Kennedy because he is playing the best football of his career and was being held back by Newcastle.

Tonga was going to improve because of Parramatta's development. They do a lot of that as can be seen with the amount of eels players spread throughout the NRL. Tonga was never told he was not good enough for 1st grade. Parramatta just had 2 excellent centres at the time and one of them was Jamie Lyon. Likewise O'Melley was developed by Norths and not the Dogs. How many true local juniors in the Dogs team??
 

yobbo84

Coach
Messages
10,640
mattyg said:
Belmore's best beginning to boil

By Willie Mason
Bulldogs star


July 21, 2006

LOSING Nate Myles to Sydney Roosters on top of Roy Asotasi going to South Sydney has got me fuming. It's again a case of the Bulldogs paying for their success, and I don't think that's fair.

Let's start with Roy.

I moved to the Bulldogs in 1998, he arrived in 1999, and we have been great mates ever since. I played first grade before him but I have watched him develop into one of the best front rowers in the competition.

The Bulldogs have developed him to where he has been such a great player over the past couple of years. Now we can't afford to keep him. Yet the bottom sides like South Sydney, and those other clubs who aren't as successful, get to grab at our good players. It sucks.

Don't get me wrong.

Roy deserves the money he gets, but what can you say when a club like Souths offers you $450,000 a year and the Bulldogs can't afford to give him what he's worth.

The Rabbitohs have got all that money to spend because they've got players that are average first graders and not worth too much.

Like I said, good luck to him and I'm happy for him to go because he's got a family to look after.

But as I keep saying to him, he'd want to cherish this year because it will probably be the last finals series he plays until he retires. There's no way in the world Souths will go any good next year.

Nate's a different story and that ticks me off even more.

While I'm really upset that Roy did leave because we're great mates, he's done his time at the Dogs, he's been a great player for four or five years, and he deserves that money.

But I think Nate should have stayed because he needs to do his apprenticeship and he's gone and chased some money. You can come with excuses like you need a change or you need a starting spot but it comes down to the money.

I'd have loved to have been in his position, getting thrown $250,000 or $300,000 as a 21 year old, but I sacrificed that money to stay at the Bulldogs - and I haven't regretted it one bit.

I've won a premiership and it's made me the player I am today.

I wished Nate all the luck in the world because he is a good mate but I don't know if he is ready for the leadership role at the Roosters that comes with the responsibility of being a starting player.

The Roosters are going to put all that pressure on him by saying he's their No.1 buy and he's got to replace Adrian Morley. But Adrian Morley is irreplaceable.

He's one of the most intimidating players I have ever played against and it's a shame to lose him back to England. There's no other Adrian Morleys out there so I don't know what the Roosters are thinking with that.

It was the same for me when I was 21. I learned off players like Steve Price, Steve Reardon, Darren Britt and all those sort of older heads.

I sat behind those blokes, picked their brains, watched how they trained and that's probably made me the player I am. It's developed me into a leader. But I was no leader when I was 21 and I was in a better position than Nate was.

I don't know what can be done to help clubs like the Bulldogs retain their players. Probably raise the salary cap again? But to be honest there's probably nothing you can do.

It's a problem that won't go away. Sonny Bill Williams is off contract next year, so are Mark O'Meley and Daniel Holdsworth, there's a lot of them here at Belmore.

People are going to be throwing $600,000 or $700,000 at Sonny, $400,000 at Mark, Daniel Holdsworth has been playing some great football so he could be worth up to $300,000. It never ends.

That's just the price you pay for being successful.

Personally, I don't see what's wrong if a club wins a stack of premierships, just like the Dragons did in the 1960s.

There are not going to dynasties in the game now because the good teams just keep getting broken up every time you have a couple of good years. A couple of the good players come off contract and then they get bought.

We had an opportunity in the next four or five years to really establish ourselves in the NRL as the team that dominated the new millennium but we haven't got that chance now. Roy Asotasi was a real big part of that and so was Nate Myles and we've lost them both.

Turning to tomorrow night's clash against the Roosters, that's going to be a harder game than last Friday night's blockbuster against St George-Illawarra.

There's a confidence in the team after beating the Dragons last week that I last felt in 2004 when we won the premiership. But there's a lot of experienced players there now that know confidence isn't going to get you there.

You still have to work hard and you can't be mucking around. You've got to be switched on for every game and I think myself, Andrew Ryan, Tony Grimaldi and the rest of the senior players will be trying to drill that into everyone.

The Roosters will be tough because they've just come off a win, they're still a chance to make the eight and they're old rivals. They hate us and we hate them. If you play in a grand final and one team wins and one team loses there's always going to be rivalry.

We also need to beat them because they keep buying our players. Obviously they're trying to buy a premiership.

The Australian

-----------------

**** this just sums up why i love Willie Mason so much. He says it exactly like it is. Couldn't agree more with what he says. Loved the cheap shots at Souths saying there's no way they will make the 8 next year, and that the roosters are "trying to buy a premiership". Hope ya have a blinder on Saturday Willie and get more points towards the Dally M. You deserve it. :)

Thought it an appropriate time to bring this back up. :D
 

mattyg

Bench
Messages
4,170
Mason you goose...

I would love Wing to come out and have a go at Willie for doing what he did to his teammates...Willie wasn't shy when Wing left under what I would consider acceptable circumstances. Willie walks out mid contract...give him a spray back Wingy.
 

Penance

Juniors
Messages
1,543
mattyg said:
Belmore's best beginning to boil

By Willie Mason
Bulldogs star

July 21, 2006

LOSING Nate Myles to Sydney Roosters on top of Roy Asotasi going to South Sydney has got me fuming. It's again a case of the Bulldogs paying for their success, and I don't think that's fair.

Let's start with Roy.

I moved to the Bulldogs in 1998, he arrived in 1999, and we have been great mates ever since. I played first grade before him but I have watched him develop into one of the best front rowers in the competition.

The Bulldogs have developed him to where he has been such a great player over the past couple of years. Now we can't afford to keep him. Yet the bottom sides like South Sydney, and those other clubs who aren't as successful, get to grab at our good players. It sucks.

Don't get me wrong.

Roy deserves the money he gets, but what can you say when a club like Souths offers you $450,000 a year and the Bulldogs can't afford to give him what he's worth.

The Rabbitohs have got all that money to spend because they've got players that are average first graders and not worth too much.

Like I said, good luck to him and I'm happy for him to go because he's got a family to look after.

But as I keep saying to him, he'd want to cherish this year because it will probably be the last finals series he plays until he retires. There's no way in the world Souths will go any good next year.

Nate's a different story and that ticks me off even more.

While I'm really upset that Roy did leave because we're great mates, he's done his time at the Dogs, he's been a great player for four or five years, and he deserves that money.

But I think Nate should have stayed because he needs to do his apprenticeship and he's gone and chased some money. You can come with excuses like you need a change or you need a starting spot but it comes down to the money.

I'd have loved to have been in his position, getting thrown $250,000 or $300,000 as a 21 year old, but I sacrificed that money to stay at the Bulldogs - and I haven't regretted it one bit.

I've won a premiership and it's made me the player I am today.

I wished Nate all the luck in the world because he is a good mate but I don't know if he is ready for the leadership role at the Roosters that comes with the responsibility of being a starting player.

The Roosters are going to put all that pressure on him by saying he's their No.1 buy and he's got to replace Adrian Morley. But Adrian Morley is irreplaceable.

He's one of the most intimidating players I have ever played against and it's a shame to lose him back to England. There's no other Adrian Morleys out there so I don't know what the Roosters are thinking with that.

It was the same for me when I was 21. I learned off players like Steve Price, Steve Reardon, Darren Britt and all those sort of older heads.

I sat behind those blokes, picked their brains, watched how they trained and that's probably made me the player I am. It's developed me into a leader. But I was no leader when I was 21 and I was in a better position than Nate was.

I don't know what can be done to help clubs like the Bulldogs retain their players. Probably raise the salary cap again? But to be honest there's probably nothing you can do.

It's a problem that won't go away. Sonny Bill Williams is off contract next year, so are Mark O'Meley and Daniel Holdsworth, there's a lot of them here at Belmore.

People are going to be throwing $600,000 or $700,000 at Sonny, $400,000 at Mark, Daniel Holdsworth has been playing some great football so he could be worth up to $300,000. It never ends.

That's just the price you pay for being successful.

Personally, I don't see what's wrong if a club wins a stack of premierships, just like the Dragons did in the 1960s.

There are not going to dynasties in the game now because the good teams just keep getting broken up every time you have a couple of good years. A couple of the good players come off contract and then they get bought.

We had an opportunity in the next four or five years to really establish ourselves in the NRL as the team that dominated the new millennium but we haven't got that chance now. Roy Asotasi was a real big part of that and so was Nate Myles and we've lost them both.

Turning to tomorrow night's clash against the Roosters, that's going to be a harder game than last Friday night's blockbuster against St George-Illawarra.

There's a confidence in the team after beating the Dragons last week that I last felt in 2004 when we won the premiership. But there's a lot of experienced players there now that know confidence isn't going to get you there.

You still have to work hard and you can't be mucking around. You've got to be switched on for every game and I think myself, Andrew Ryan, Tony Grimaldi and the rest of the senior players will be trying to drill that into everyone.

The Roosters will be tough because they've just come off a win, they're still a chance to make the eight and they're old rivals. They hate us and we hate them. If you play in a grand final and one team wins and one team loses there's always going to be rivalry.

We also need to beat them because they keep buying our players. Obviously they're trying to buy a premiership.

The Australian

-----------------

**** this just sums up why i love Willie Mason so much. He says it exactly like it is. Couldn't agree more with what he says. Loved the cheap shots at Souths saying there's no way they will make the 8 next year, and that the roosters are "trying to buy a premiership". Hope ya have a blinder on Saturday Willie and get more points towards the Dally M. You deserve it. :)

Glad that tool didn't come to Souths.
 
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