World XIII named

[bartman]

Farrell deserves in ahead of Fitzgibbon for mine.

Rugby League World magazine (UK December issue) carries the votes/rankings for each position that made up this team, as follows:

Fullback:
1. Minichiello
2. Wellens
3. Webb
=4. Bowen
=4. Billy Slater
then Karmichael Hunt, Kris Radlinksi, Rhys Wesser.

Wingers:
=1. Carney
=1. Rooney
3. Vainikolo
4. Hazem El Masri
=5. Utai
=5. Marcus Bai
then Reardon, Hape, Sing, Amos Roberts.

Centres:
1. Tonga
2. Senior
3. Gleeson (unlucky I agree)
4. Vagana
5. Mark Gasnier
then Matt Gidley, Berrigan, Ben Westwood (?), Ryan Cross, Cooper, Toopi, Tate, Hape (again).

Five-Eighths/Stand Offs:
1. Lockyer (only unanimous panel choice)
2. McGuire
3. Brad Fittler
=4. Vinnie Anderson
=4. Scott Hill
then Preston Campbell, Braith Anasta, Richard Horne (Hull), Trent Barrett.

Scrum Halves/Halfbacks:
1. Kimmorley
2. Gower
3. Long
4. Matt Orford
5. Brent Sherwin
then Brett Finch, Leuluai, Ben Jeffries, Denis Moran, Horne (again), Andrew Johns.

Props:
1. Webcke
2. Fielden
3. Morley
4. Andy Farrell
5. O'Meley
then Steve Price, Ryles, Rauhihi, Wiki.

Hookers:
1. Buderus
2. Wing
3. Newton
4. Cameron Smith
5. Louis Anderson
then Matt Diskin, Luke Robinson, Keiron Cunningham, Mark Riddell.

Second Rowers:
1. Andy Farrell (again)
2. Hindmarsh
3. Mason
4. Jamie Peacock
5. Fitzgibbon
then Lauitiiti, Joe Galuvao, Wiki (again), David Solomona, Morley (again).
(Andrew Ryan never gets many wraps, but for mine he had a good year.)

Locks/Loose Forwards:
1. SB Williams
2. Sculthorpe
3. Carroll
4. Timmins
=5. Gareth Ellis
=5. Brad Fittler (again)
then Luke Ricketson, Sean O'Loughlin, Trent Waterhouse, Fitzgibbon (again), Kevin Sinfield, Jason Smith (Hull).

 

[Broncodroid]

Props:
1. Webcke
2. Fielden
3. Morley
4. Andy Farrell
5. O'Meley
then Steve Price, Ryles, Rauhihi, Wiki.

The above is a load of BS.

If we are talking tri-series form only, then perhaps, though over a full RL season that being 2004, the list is way off. (I selected the World X111 off Tri-Series form only, the team changes if over one full season).

1. Paul Rauhihi
2. Steve Price
3. Mark O'Meley
4. Stuart Fielden
5. Shane Webcke

Very debateable, though over 2004, Webcke was NOT the game's best prop though he reminded us all with some top displays in the Tri-Series that he is still a force and given an injury free 2005, he may return to the top of the tree.

 

[bartman]

Yeah, by the looks of the votes for pelayers that didn't make the XIII, it wasn't just on Tri-series form.

Webcke is getting on and injures too often/easily, and while still solid and reliable wasn't the world's best all season. Can't argue with your rankings, maybe I'd throw Wiki in at 6th too?

 

[Humphrey]

Over here we thank god for SBW or we'd have no one in the side :shock:

 

[Tupac Shakur]

The side is only the British journalists opinions, no wonder Farrell is in the side they love him over there and they also love Kimmorley which explains his inclusion.

 

[Special K]

Kimmorley was the best 7 in the tri series. He was in good form before missing 3 months in the NRL but since Orford wasn't on the Tour Kimmorley should be the 7 in that side. Gower did nothing with his chances

 

[borat]

I reckon this team is spot on. With the exception of Senior for Gleeson its exactly what I would have chosen. As an International 13 surely you must have played international football. Club football should be taken into account after this.

 

[bartman]

The side is only the British journalists opinions, no wonder Farrell is in the side they love him over there and they also love Kimmorley which explains his inclusion.

No, sorry - "with votes cast from journalists from all three major playing nations" - I have the article right here in front of me.

This is only the second time an Birtish player has won the Golden Boot, tied to the World XIII process and voted on by the same people as above. I'm not a Brit, but I don't think you (or anyone else) can accurately claim British bias in this?

 

[Tupac Shakur]

Sorry i read the article wrong it says "The line-up of the world’s best international players - voted for annually by journalists in both hemispheres" sorry..

 

[Booyah]

also love Kimmorley which explains his inclusion.

Really? I would have thought his fantastic form on tour would have seen him included, rather then journalistic bias.

Not like Gower, who had plenty of chances to play well and didn't/couldn't.

 

[nqboy]

Gleeson for Senior on TS form, Kimmorley a shoe-in in the absence of any credible opposition (Long 3rd - you're kidding, right?) and I just can't get past my anti-Farrell bias. He's been vastly over-rated over there for so long. I probably would have gone Sculthorpe at lock, SBW in the 2nd row. Webcke was outstanding in the latter stages of the TS after some ordinary games early on top of only an average season at home. At his best, he's still up there but too often, he thinks he's a ball-player and that's when it ends in tears. No-one used to ever bash him out fo games, NSW do it at least once each years these days in Origin. Ra would have gone close to that spot if he wasn't so loose with his off-loads, the best metre-eater in the game.

 

[Tupac Shakur]

also love Kimmorley which explains his inclusion.

Really? I would have thought his fantastic form on tour would have seen him included, rather then journalistic bias.

I would have said it was just 'journalistic' bias now i say its a combination of both 'journalist' and your bias.

 

[nqboy]

Does Rugby League World list the journalists who voted? It would be interesting to see the balance and who got a jersey on the selection panel.

I wish RLW or Big League would do something like this so we can see it it each year and look forward to it. Would make an interesting addition to their Summer Specials.

 

[nqboy]

Does Rugby League World list the journalists who voted? It would be interesting to see the balance and who got a jersey on the selection panel.

Anyone?

 

[bartman]

Hi nq.

No, the article does not list the journalists that voted. I understand one knob-end journalist did a big article in a Sydney at the time about how they never get asked to vote in anything? But imo that could be more about journalists politics and scoring points in the press box than actually reflecting on the make up of the votel panel...

 

[nqboy]

I love the concept and would like to see it formalised and made transparent by publishing the names of the selcetion panels and even a short summary of each position voted on and each selector's opinion as to the reason for the choices. I think though it's still a worthy exercise, it's credibility would increase greatly if this were so.

League Week and Big League in Australia have run a number of competitions over the years to select Immortals, Best Side in LW's time, Best Ever Kangaroos and so on and they always introduce the panel before hand to allow readers to view their credentials.

And yes, the Tele blowing up about not being invited to vote would be journalistic politics (or more likely, media ownership politics) but the point is still valid.

 

[bartman]

Very well said, there can only be benefits from making the voting panel public and allowing further explorations of the reasons for their votes.

In terms of inclusion, working it all out for the Australian media shouldn't be that hard. You have 2 magazines (Big League, Rugby League Week), 2 TV channels (Fox Sports, Channel Nine), 2 newspapers (News Ltd/Daily Tele and interstate relatives and Fairfax/SMH and interstate relatives), and whoever is holding the radio rights (2GB and relatives now). So that's seven reps who get a vote from Australia and everyone there's happy?

 

[nqboy]

You'll never make everyone happy.

Does Rugby League World still operate? I see their ratings but others on here have talked about them in past tense.

 

[nqboy]

Fullback:
1. Minichiello
2. Wellens
3. Webb
=4. Bowen
=4. Billy Slater
then Karmichael Hunt, Kris Radlinksi, Rhys Wesser.

Webb at 3? They're kidding. He had that many Australian fullbacks ahead of him, he jumped ship on the residential rule.

Wingers:
=1. Carney
=1. Rooney
3. Vainikolo
4. Hazem El Masri
=5. Utai
=5. Marcus Bai
then Reardon, Hape, Sing, Amos Roberts.

El Masri's just a goalkicker. Sing could be higher up, the others are more explosive but he's more reliable and consistent.

Centres:
1. Tonga
2. Senior
3. Gleeson (unlucky I agree)
4. Vagana
5. Mark Gasnier
then Matt Gidley, Berrigan, Ben Westwood (?), Ryan Cross, Cooper, Toopi, Tate, Hape (again).

Vagana hasn't played well for a couple of years now, Gasnier is constantly injured. Jamie Lyon would be near the top but for his self-imposed exile.

Five-Eighths/Stand Offs:
1. Lockyer (only unanimous panel choice)
2. McGuire
3. Brad Fittler
=4. Vinnie Anderson
=4. Scott Hill
then Preston Campbell, Braith Anasta, Richard Horne (Hull), Trent Barrett.

How thin are these ranks when Vinnie Anderson makes the Top 5? We've long been spoiled for choice with Lewis, Kenny, Daley and Fittler leaving the likes of Lamb and Lyons in the shade.

Scrum Halves/Halfbacks:
1. Kimmorley
2. Gower
3. Long
4. Matt Orford
5. Brent Sherwin
then Brett Finch, Leuluai, Ben Jeffries, Denis Moran, Horne (again), Andrew Johns.

Long at 3 - what a joke! He would come somewhere after Finch. Again, the ranks are thin after two decades of Mortimer, Hastings, Sterling, Langer, Gregory, Alexander, Stuart, Johns and Jones eclipsing such notables as Blake, Hasler, Friend, Freeman and Toovey.

Props:
1. Webcke
2. Fielden
3. Morley
4. Andy Farrell
5. O'Meley
then Steve Price, Ryles, Rauhihi, Wiki.

About right, but Civoniceva should be in there somewhere and it's doubtful whether Webcke's still the best on a consistent basis. I can't take Farrell seriously. Dominating SL is easy money compared to testing himself against the world's best week in, week out in Australia.

Hookers:
1. Buderus
2. Wing
3. Newton
4. Cameron Smith
5. Louis Anderson
then Matt Diskin, Luke Robinson, Keiron Cunningham, Mark Riddell.

Priddis? At least 3rd IMO. He doesn't play rep football because Buderus and Wing are in front of him but he's better than the rest. Newton's a grub at international level and a stupid one at that. Is he always like that in SL as well? It's a shame, when he cuts the shit, he looks a much better player.

Second Rowers:
1. Andy Farrell (again)
2. Hindmarsh
3. Mason
4. Jamie Peacock
5. Fitzgibbon
then Lauitiiti, Joe Galuvao, Wiki (again), David Solomona, Morley (again).
(Andrew Ryan never gets many wraps, but for mine he had a good year.)

Farrell again. When I see him dominate the Aussies, I might start believing. And Ryan should be there.

Locks/Loose Forwards:
1. SB Williams
2. Sculthorpe
3. Carroll
4. Timmins
=5. Gareth Ellis
=5. Brad Fittler (again)
then Luke Ricketson, Sean O'Loughlin, Trent Waterhouse, Fitzgibbon (again), Kevin Sinfield, Jason Smith (Hull).

The top 2 are interchangeable. Don't know how you can rate Fittler in this position when he never plays there because of two others in that list. Depth is scarce if Carroll is 3rd best.

In summary, too much store is placed in SL performances. We make that judgment based on the NRL cast-offs that go over there and become stars (Moran, Solomona, Vainikolo and Hape are good examples). Long wouldn't play FG at most clubs over here and Farrell would be an average FG forward. Your best players are world class - Fielden, Sculthorpe and Carney - and a few others are pretty handy - Gleeson, Senior, Peacock and Maguire (based on potential) - but many others are vastly over-rated IMO.

There doesn't seem to be the depth around that I remember in the 80s. In most positions, I struggle to name 5 world class or very good players, a problem I rarely had back then.

 

[nqboy]

I understand one knob-end journalist did a big article in a Sydney at the time about how they never get asked to vote in anything? But imo that could be more about journalists politics and scoring points in the press box than actually reflecting on the make up of the votel panel...

Ah, the mystery solved.

http://www.totalrl.com/strand/article.php

"He (Dean Ritchie, Tele Journalist) complained that no one from the Sydney Daily Telegraph had ever been asked to vote in the Golden Boot. What he really should have said was that no one at the Telegraph, himself included, had ever bothered to fill out the voting forms sent to them (or, in the case of Ritchie when he was covering the Ashes tour last year and the Telegraph’s representative at this year’s Tri-Nations, handed to them in person).

Makes Ritchie look a bit of a pratt, doesn't it?