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Team v the bloody Panthers

Big Marn

Juniors
Messages
2,447
only thing i can think of its 3 things
1) lighting a fire under ayshfords ass and he is going to do a switcheroo on game day
2) Ayshfords played all year and he needs a break
3) hes being punished for dropping off that tackle in golden point that led to Crokers try. But if it is 3, thats harsh as most of the team missed tackles leading up to that try.
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
10,348
...3) hes being punished for dropping off that tackle in golden point that led to Crokers try. But if it is 3, thats harsh as most of the team missed tackles leading up to that try.

And his miss was Papalii.

To a man on NITV League Nation Live - Hodges, Yow Yeh and the host - they had the Panthers to win.

Who wouldn't?

What message did Cappy send out to Ayshford? Be consistently good - even in games where most of the others weren't - and get benched at the pointy end of the season?

Look, let's just sink down to where we look most comfy on the table - about 12th - and finish the season there. Any higher and we might have the same coach next year.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,874
Fusitua's ability to play at centre isn't so much the issue here. He is in top form and I am sure he will go fine- though perhaps not as well as he would at fullback or on the wing.

The problems are Maumalo and this restless, agitated thought process of McFadden. Changes for change's sake. Does he think he comes across as innovative? It comes over more like throwing shit at the way to see what sticks.

And is this point of the season, with a faint hope of finals football still there for us, the time to be tinkering?
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
10,348
...with a faint hope of finals football still there for us...

But, as we know, it's a disgrace that it's only a faint hope. We only need to finish 9th (effectively the 8th spot this season) and, for all the under-achievement, we only have to beat a few sides at home (that are thereabouts on the table with us) and the Titans away, where we usually do fine.

A faint hope of finals footy should mean having to spring an upset in Townsville.
 
Messages
16,862
The reshuffle seems pointless baring injury.
So looking at players Lolo obvious needs to be in team.
So in the 6? Well TL has that sewn up.

1? Well Fus has him in defense, but Lolo injects himself a bit more in attack.

Wing? Well Fus is better there in attack and finishing.

Centre, well Ashyford been going well there.

Attack has been our main issue, so best put people in positions that improve out attack.

Cappy throws any form of logical thinking out the window.

Maumalo should only be in the team if Manu is out.

Ashyford on bench if a WTF moment and a waste.

C.Vs to Jim Doyle please.
This feels like a death knell for our season.

I hope to be wrong.
 
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SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
38,344
What happened to the plan of Tui playing FB on attack and Wing on defence, alternating with Fus? Plays to both of their strengths and largely solves the selection problems. Only issue there is maybe bombs to Tui's wing but Maumalo isn't perfect there either.
 

spear tackle

Juniors
Messages
1,176
What happened to the plan of Tui playing FB on attack and Wing on defence, alternating with Fus? Plays to both of their strengths and largely solves the selection problems. Only issue there is maybe bombs to Tui's wing but Maumalo isn't perfect there either.
That's last months plan, I'm sure he has a "better' one now.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,810
Na man,

Ayshford, the centre was clearly the problem. Like finals bound Hurrell before him.

Makes me sad.

I wait for Stacey, he will get you there.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,581
There is going to be a lot of scrutiny of Lolohea this week.
Let's hope he can deliver.
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
10,348
There is going to be a lot of scrutiny of Lolohea this week.
Let's hope he can deliver.

So, there's no pressure on him again.

The coach may well snatch a win on Saturday just to extend his tenure on the coach's job, I'm ready for that.
 
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JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,871
presumably he's worked on his worked ons - so all is good.

And by being really good at fullback, and finishing brilliantly when on the wing Fus has obviously shown he's the answer to the centre problem (which nobody except the coach realised we had)

Funny stuff, Penrith are inconsistent so who knows what will happen... but if it was the Cowboys, Sharks or Melbourne I am pretty sure how this ends...
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
8,747
And his miss was Papalii.

To a man on NITV League Nation Live - Hodges, Yow Yeh and the host - they had the Panthers to win.

Who wouldn't?

What message did Cappy send out to Ayshford? Be consistently good - even in games where most of the others weren't - and get benched at the pointy end of the season?

Look, let's just sink down to where we look most comfy on the table - about 12th - and finish the season there. Any higher and we might have the same coach next year.

100% how I feel as well. Ayshford is, for some unknown reason, McFail's bashing boy. When tits for hands Wright butchered the Sharks game, McFail decided to blame Ayshford. He's been an absolute cut-price revelation for our club, and after a couple of sub-par games he's gone? Why, because it's an easy enough move to make in the knowledge the fans and media won't stage an uproar like they did with Tui? Weak as piss.

And the last part, that's honestly how I feel. I'm in this awful position of not wanting my side to do well at times. A side I've supported through thick and thin for 21 years. Because I know, or I think I know, that if we finish 8th and bomb out, and probably even 9th (which are 9th and 10th respectively, really) that we have an absolute incompetent coach that will be reappointed. And we'll lose another year of our lives to his bumbling efforts.

We now have Fus playing his third position in six weeks. Tui making his 18th positional switch in 43 games. McFail finally realising that Matulino and Lillyman is the best propping combination to start a game, and we're what - round 20? Then that god awful bench with absolutely no punch to it.

JJ was right, McFail just keeps making hail mary selection calls until like a blind squirrel, he eventually finds a sweet nut. I put him in Tony Kemp territory as near-on our worst coach in history.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
34,874
Na man,

Ayshford, the centre was clearly the problem. Like finals bound Hurrell before him.

Makes me sad.

I wait for Stacey, he will get you there.

Hi Mr Angry, my friend.

I often see you say this- what makes you think Stacey is going to be a better coach? (Genuine question)
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,810
Hi Mr Angry, my friend.

I often see you say this- what makes you think Stacey is going to be a better coach? (Genuine question)
1. He will be respected for his deeds as a Warrior and Kiwi.
2. As a player he biggest weapon was not speed or strength but his footy brain.
3. He has already had success coaching ok not NRL level, but success.
4. He obviously wants to do, because he is already.
5. He is a natural leader of men.

Not all players become good coaches, but IMO Stacey will excel.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
16,830
I know this does nothing for my credibility but I'm going to sort of stick up for Cappy again.

Much like I think Lolohea started to get overrated while he was benched, I think a marginal decision to drop Ayshford is leading to him being pumped up beyond all reality. Ayshford came to the club as a long-time journeyman (if not just plain poor) first grader and has surprised us all by being better than expected.

As I've mentioned previously it astounds me how Ayshford gets so many kudos for running into gaps created by Johnson while we all remain silent about Johnson himself and how he has made guys like Ayshford and to a lesser extent Thompson and Fus look better than ever when they play outside him.

Ayshford has had some very poor moments on defence this season which have ramped up over the last couple of weeks. He doesn't have a base to fall back on in terms of either reputation or potential so from my point of view he is very droppable if he plays poorly.

I note that over the last two weeks combined we have conceded something like 5 tries down the Ayshford/Maumalo edge and ZERO down the Vatuvei/Kata edge. I haven't heard this mentioned at all and in fact (although it is less prevalent here where it tends to be more anti-Maumalo) the main thing I've heard is that Manu should be dropped. It has generally been more Ayshford than Maumalo who has been at fault.

If Cappy thinks that out of form journeyman Ayshford is the odd man out compared to Manu + 4 guys who are evidently the future of the club's backline then I can't really disagree with him too strongly.

I think that a big part of what's causing this tinkering is that Cappy really rates Fusitua and thinks he is multi-talented and a bit wasted on the wing, despite his highlight-reel dives into the corner. I actually tend to side with Cappy on this. I think he feels the same way about Lolohea but rates Fusitua higher. So, he's tried to squeeze those guys into positions where they can do more than just hang out on the wing and he was probably encouraged to do so because Maumalo has been playing ok and Ayshford has waned slightly.

I can see where Cappy is coming from with each individual decision but does that outweigh the disruption caused by his constant chopping and changing? Of course not.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,871
Fine (although I disagree on much of it), but Ayshford on the bench makes no sense whatsoever - it's just barmy... he starts, or he's not in the 17, surely???? What can he add from the bench, unless he's purely there for injury cover? Which is a wasted spot

And why not leave Fus at fullback and play Tui at centre or wing... at the end of the day, to me, Lolohea makes so much more sense on the bench than Ayshford.

If nothing else it's interesting pondering what the rationale is, I haven't seen a logical one, but yours is the closest
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
I know this does nothing for my credibility but I'm going to sort of stick up for Cappy again.

Much like I think Lolohea started to get overrated while he was benched, I think a marginal decision to drop Ayshford is leading to him being pumped up beyond all reality. Ayshford came to the club as a long-time journeyman (if not just plain poor) first grader and has surprised us all by being better than expected.

As I've mentioned previously it astounds me how Ayshford gets so many kudos for running into gaps created by Johnson while we all remain silent about Johnson himself and how he has made guys like Ayshford and to a lesser extent Thompson and Fus look better than ever when they play outside him.

Ayshford has had some very poor moments on defence this season which have ramped up over the last couple of weeks. He doesn't have a base to fall back on in terms of either reputation or potential so from my point of view he is very droppable if he plays poorly.

I note that over the last two weeks combined we have conceded something like 5 tries down the Ayshford/Maumalo edge and ZERO down the Vatuvei/Kata edge. I haven't heard this mentioned at all and in fact (although it is less prevalent here where it tends to be more anti-Maumalo) the main thing I've heard is that Manu should be dropped. It has generally been more Ayshford than Maumalo who has been at fault.

If Cappy thinks that out of form journeyman Ayshford is the odd man out compared to Manu + 4 guys who are evidently the future of the club's backline then I can't really disagree with him too strongly.

I think that a big part of what's causing this tinkering is that Cappy really rates Fusitua and thinks he is multi-talented and a bit wasted on the wing, despite his highlight-reel dives into the corner. I actually tend to side with Cappy on this. I think he feels the same way about Lolohea but rates Fusitua higher. So, he's tried to squeeze those guys into positions where they can do more than just hang out on the wing and he was probably encouraged to do so because Maumalo has been playing ok and Ayshford has waned slightly.

I can see where Cappy is coming from with each individual decision but does that outweigh the disruption caused by his constant chopping and changing? Of course not.

I can see that line of thinking, but...

The problem is Ayshford has had some pretty great moments in defence this year too - and done quite a bit more than just run into gaps created by Johnson.. he has set up his outside man a whole bunch of times - even when Wright & Maumalo manage to screw it up - took an intercept not too long ago, has been a genuine threat cutting back inside... and just - and this is hugely underrated - takes the right option more often than not when we have the ball.

And I'd argue that even despite conceding 26 points in our last game (22 after 80 tbf - and if you average out our last 2 games after 80 minutes, that's 18 points a game... that, over a season up to this point would put us as the 4th best defense in the league), the bigger concern was a failure to score when totally dominating the game for a significant period (in both of the last two games). That, to me, screams to get our best ballplaying fullback in and get our best finisher on the wing... and in doing so, remove the guy who looks completely lost when given an opportunity (or even just a half opportunity) to score.

It's hard to say Fusitua on the wing is wasted when he dominates that zone, and we really feel it when he isn't there - anyone else love that feeling last week when you realised it was Fus that had gone over in the corner and you knew - just knew - he had done it? It's just irritating because the initial switch should never have happened. Cappy's apparent (and let's be honest here - current - it may change, particularly if Maumalo starts doing something silly like scoring tries) man-love for Maumalo is getting to ridiculous Kata-back-end-of-2015 proportions... I can only pray that Maumalo goes away, works hard on his game and improves as much as Kata did. Though he's coming from a lot further behind.
 

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