Team v the bloody Panthers

[Manu Vatuvei]

Fine (although I disagree on much of it), but Ayshford on the bench makes no sense whatsoever - it's just barmy... he starts, or he's not in the 17, surely???? What can he add from the bench, unless he's purely there for injury cover? Which is a wasted spot

And why not leave Fus at fullback and play Tui at centre or wing... at the end of the day, to me, Lolohea makes so much more sense on the bench than Ayshford.

If nothing else it's interesting pondering what the rationale is, I haven't seen a logical one, but yours is the closest

I actually forgot to mention at the end of my post, the other reason it's stupid apart from all of the disruption to combinations is the whole "specialist wing/centre on the bench" thing. It's ridiculous, I agree. I would rather just have someone like Sipley on the bench going hard for 20 minutes.

Once the decision is made (rightly or wrongly) that Ayshford is the weakest, link, I think the backline we have is the best we can pick...Fusitua is a better fit at centre than Lolohea. I agree with Cappy on that.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I can see that line of thinking, but...

The problem is Ayshford has had some pretty great moments in defence this year too - and done quite a bit more than just run into gaps created by Johnson.. he has set up his outside man a whole bunch of times - even when Wright & Maumalo manage to screw it up - took an intercept not too long ago, has been a genuine threat cutting back inside... and just - and this is hugely underrated - takes the right option more often than not when we have the ball.

And I'd argue that even despite conceding 26 points in our last game (22 after 80 tbf - and if you average out our last 2 games after 80 minutes, that's 18 points a game... that, over a season up to this point would put us as the 4th best defense in the league), the bigger concern was a failure to score when totally dominating the game for a significant period (in both of the last two games). That, to me, screams to get our best ballplaying fullback in and get our best finisher on the wing... and in doing so, remove the guy who looks completely lost when given an opportunity (or even just a half opportunity) to score.

It's hard to say Fusitua on the wing is wasted when he dominates that zone, and we really feel it when he isn't there - anyone else love that feeling last week when you realised it was Fus that had gone over in the corner and you knew - just knew - he had done it? It's just irritating because the initial switch should never have happened. Cappy's apparent (and let's be honest here - current - it may change, particularly if Maumalo starts doing something silly like scoring tries) man-love for Maumalo is getting to ridiculous Kata-back-end-of-2015 proportions... I can only pray that Maumalo goes away, works hard on his game and improves as much as Kata did. Though he's coming from a lot further behind.

I just don't really agree with that assessment of Fusitua. The right handed divey put-down thing is cool but that's only one very small and specific aspect of "finishing", let alone wing play generally, which only comes in handy in situations where he's on the outside of the opposition winger, with an otherwise clear run where he's unimpeded up until 2-3 metres from the line.

I don't think a guy commands a spot because he has mastered one specific movement which is only relevant when he should probably be scoring a try anyway.

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit flippant about it but this whole hype-train has got a bit out of control and I think it's a pretty reductive view of Fusitua's skills anyway.

 

[JJ]

I feel a Johnno Wright selection coming out of the blue in the next few weeks

Bit of a victory for Lolohea though, gets dropped gets some press, calls for a meeting with the coach, isn't terribly good when he plays during that time, then suddenly is at fullback... Hurrell played the wrong cards?

 

[JJ]

1. He will be respected for his deeds as a Warrior and Kiwi.
2. As a player he biggest weapon was not speed or strength but his footy brain.
3. He has already had success coaching ok not NRL level, but success.
4. He obviously wants to do, because he is already.
5. He is a natural leader of men.

Not all players become good coaches, but IMO Stacey will excel.

1. Sure - but other 'greats' - Meninga, Lewis, Fittler have not been great coaches at NRL level
2. Kind of disagree, he wasn't IMO a Sterling kind of half, his explosive speed was a big strength - that said, all the greats above, and Stacey, have pretty decent 'footy' brains
3. Yep, but plenty of other have had success at lower levels with the Warriors and elsewhere - I'd prefer him to get some first grade experience, perhaps in the UK, first
4. Yes
5. Is he? He was not a natural choice as captain often, again at least not in the Lewis kind of mould

I hope he gets the job at some stage, certainly if it's a choice between him and the incumbent I have no hesitation - buit I'd prefer him to have a spell as an assistant under someone who actually knows what they're doing

 

[vvvrulz]

I just don't really agree with that assessment of Fusitua. The right handed divey put-down thing is cool but that's only one very small and specific aspect of "finishing", let alone wing play generally, which only comes in handy in situations where he's on the outside of the opposition winger, with an otherwise clear run where he's unimpeded up until 2-3 metres from the line..

He's also safe under the high ball, has shown tremendous defence at fullback (should be good enough to do the same on wing), and has good pace. To me that trumps Lolohea, Maumalo and arguably Manu as a winger quite easily.

But all that said, I still think we get the most value out of him at fullback.

Maumalo is by far the biggest problem of the group, he's essentially Manu Lite without the important ability to pile on the tries.

 

[jaseg]

I just don't really agree with that assessment of Fusitua. The right handed divey put-down thing is cool but that's only one very small and specific aspect of "finishing", let alone wing play generally, which only comes in handy in situations where he's on the outside of the opposition winger, with an otherwise clear run where he's unimpeded up until 2-3 metres from the line.

I don't think a guy commands a spot because he has mastered one specific movement which is only relevant when he should probably be scoring a try anyway.

Ok, maybe I'm being a bit flippant about it but this whole hype-train has got a bit out of control and I think it's a pretty reductive view of Fusitua's skills anyway.

At the end of the day the ability to score tries is worth 4-6 points... the ability to make 18 runs a game from the wing isn't (and let's not kid ourselves - Maumalo has done literally nothing else of value). Heheh... there's also positioning yourself and timing your run - basics that Maumalo hasn't got close to yet (which specifically cost us at least one game this season).

One combination allows Tui (who has been close to our best this year) to play 80 minutes in a position that favours him, the other combination sacrifices a player (either Tui, Fus or Ayshford) who has overall performed well this year for effing Maumalo... who brings absolutely nothing to the team aside from taking a bunch of hitups. Volume isn't impressive compared to quality and end product (edit: talking about a totally different thing - but I remember making the same point about Nathan Friend's defensive abilities over the last couple of years... his volume was high but he allowed so many offloads, wasn't terribly good near the line and gave up plenty of post contact metres and fast play the balls). And now that we have Manu back, Maumalo is worth even less - the only thing I can say about him that's positive is at least his hands seem to have improved.

He's also safe under the high ball, has shown tremendous defence at fullback (should be good enough to do the same on wing), and has good pace. To me that trumps Lolohea, Maumalo and arguably Manu as a winger quite easily.

But all that said, I still think we get the most value out of him at fullback..

I'm not so worried about getting the most value out of specific players that getting the most value out of the entire team as a unit - which for me makes it no choice at all... 1-5 Tui-Fus-Aysh-Kata-Manu. The latter 3 pick themselves, and Fus provides more advantage at wing over Tui than if the roles are reversed.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I know this does nothing for my credibility but I'm going to sort of stick up for Cappy again.

I think it was a very credible post. Ayshford hasn't been world class this year or anything, he's just been better than anything we've had at centre for a while. He's been dependable, by and large. Has he had a few off days? Sure he has. No more or less than anyone not named Mannering, really. So there is an argument to be had if it's purely Fusitua v Ayshford. But to drop Ayshford (which I think is basically because he's an easy guy to drop, probably a nice guy/not a cult hero/not likely to come out in the media and complain) then have him on the bench?! We've said so many times that this nonsensicle back on the bench crap is unique to us throughout the NRL. And we're 9th. So it ain't world-leading.

3 weeks ago, McFail told us how great Fus was going and how he'd earned the No.1 jersey and how Tui had work-ons. Fus has been great back there, yet now there's a better option?

It hasn't been mentioned as much either but McFail's use of the propping rotation has been flat out disgraceful too. The 2015 POTY has been dicked around like no one's business.

 

[Benek]

For me having Aysh on the bench is the worst part of this. If you're going to drop him, drop him, he offers nothing as a bench player. That bench on the Tuesday team name might be the weakest bench of the entire season. I hope and pray the bench changes before this weekend.

 

[ozbash]

All Cappy has done is swapped Tui for Ayshford.

Arse covering exercise.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

All Cappy has done is swapped Tui for Ayshford.

Arse covering exercise.

I agree 100% with this. Joe Public on facebook is all for it, because it's Tui - the fresh-faced Tongan Kiwi boy the South Stand all love, with his killer highlight reel and big smile - swapped in for a white Australian who used to be shit at the Sharks. Joe P doesn't know that having a back on the bench is absolute nincompoopery, he in fact doesn't even know what the interchange cap is and that it's been changed at all. J.Public also reflects on Ayshford's bad games, not the multiple solid and above solid stuff he's done.

So yeah, McFail is pandering to JP in the knowledge that's where his loudest criticism comes from. Not LU. God he's useless. When will this all end?!?

The bench won't change either - that was cunning Ivan's trick. McFail has only really done it once, and that was the Tui fail v the Sharks. He's not smart enough.

 

[Iron Lion]

Blah blah blah ..... Blah Blah blah .... We lose but we are close.

Next week shift two players positions and now some outside back on the bench.


Come support the warriors as we try to make the top 8.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah ....... we lose but we are close

Next week shift two players positions as we try to make the top 8


Blah blah blah .... blah blah blah ...... We lose but we are close - Simon Mannering player of the year.

 

[TheDMC]

So, there's no pressure on him again.

The coach may well snatch a win on Saturday just to extend his tenure on the coach's job, I'm ready for that.

If McFadden retains his coaching position because we scrape into the finals or alternatively loses it if we just miss the finals then we have way bigger issues still at the club than the quality of Cappy's coaching. That would mean Doyle is as clueless as Cappy...

The decision should of course be based on a lot more than just a few games.

So based on the Doyle man-love on this forum of knowledge, then I think you can chillax Blair and enjoy our wins because Cappy won't stay (or leave) based on winning/losing a couple games.

Or we are truly fooked. Then you may as well enjoy the wins anyhow.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

It would mean Doyle is clueless, absolutely. I haven't thought much about him lately, but obviously his next big assignment is to sort out our coaching mess. Doyle has undoubted business acumen but now needs to prove he can cut it in football. Identifying that this guy - as great as he might be to share a coffee with - can't coach himself out of a paper bag needs to be done right now and a successor needs to be behind the desk in November. That's only 3 months away.

I can't support a McFail-coached side for any of 2017. It's an awful situation half hoping your side wins, half hoping they get belted so you can finally get a decent coach after 5 years of crap.

 

[Rich102]

I am confident our monster forward pack can overrun the Panthers.
At least I think I am.
Hold on Cappy's in charge.
Noooooo!

 

[Meth]

I am confident our monster forward pack can overrun the Panthers.
At least I think I am.
Hold on Cappy's in charge.
Noooooo!

Bloody good pack, the Panthers. Even Matagi is stepping up

 

[Cold Roses]

It would mean Doyle is clueless, absolutely. I haven't thought much about him lately, but obviously his next big assignment is to sort out our coaching mess. Doyle has undoubted business acumen but now needs to prove he can cut it in football. Identifying that this guy - as great as he might be to share a coffee with - can't coach himself out of a paper bag needs to be done right now and a successor needs to be behind the desk in November. That's only 3 months away.

In one of my brief forays into a certain 'other forum' it was inferred by the Moderator that the only reason that McFadden is still at the club, is because the Salary for any replacement would have to come out of the clubs operating budget. Not Watsons pocket.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

In one of my brief forays into a certain 'other forum' it was inferred by the Moderator that the only reason that McFadden is still at the club, is because the Salary for any replacement would have to come out of the clubs operating budget. Not Watsons pocket.

So how much do we have to offer within this operating budget?

 

[hitro]

RLW Mole says Thompson in and Vete in, Manu probably out. So would that mean Bunty to the bench, Ashford to centre, Fusitua to wing, Vete to bench, Jazz and Gavet to reserve grade?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Which negates the absolute shitstorm of a side he named on Tuesday.

If McFail meant to do that, then okay. I doubt that was the master plan, based on what we've seen. What we might end up with based on your post is the side that should play week in, week out (minus Maumalo for Manu if fit)

 

[JJ]

All a cunning plan?