Signing News

[2010]

In 2018 when Hunt arrives we should have a lethal set of halves. But there is other positions we need to look at to be competitive and that is our wingers. Nightingale looks like he will hold his spot. I know he still has the smarts to be a good winged but he lacks speed. MacDonald has not displayed anything special and he also lacks the speed that modern day wingers need to have.
Centres will be Lafai and Aitkin, they are a good pairing, but apart from Mann there needs to be a ready made replacement for either of them. Saints need to identify who can step up from the Juniors.
Packer will be a loss, although on recent form it might not be as bad as we think. He has been overshadowed by Vaughan, who in my opinion Saints best buy in quite a few years.
Packer is a brute when taking the big ups, quick in play the balls but does concede a fair amount of penalties.
Do we have a ready made replacement for Packer, not yet. If we are going to use one of our Juniors they would need some game time to see if they will make the transition to first grade and that should be done this season.
Overall there is still work to be done for next season. We have played well in games this season but to be a contender next season we need to take our game to the next level.
This is just my opinion.

 

[Dragonslayer]

It's so hard to find out exactly where our cap stands and how much we have to spend on a decent player. So in my sums I go with the given and best guess the rest.
Givens
Our 2017 roster is under the cap - upgrades for 2018 are largely unknown however, an average of 100k upgrade for first grade players retained should be an over kill. 5 forwards and two backs so far = 7, plus Widdop =2, call it 1m on top of the 2017 salary cap. Sign Hunt call it another 1m so we have spent approximately 2m extra on the 2017 cap.

Take as a given that the cap will go up 2m, the majority of opinion is using this figure. So we are even money with Hunt signed and our first graders upgraded. Exclude Mann and Nightingale in this figure - not signed as yet. Nithtingale would probably cost 100k of the cap because he is entitled to a long service cap relief.

Let's assume Millward has managed to sign all the juniors including 4 extra juniors - top 30 - for the price of letting go the marginal first graders we do not want to keep. So we are about 100k0 in the red for our 2018 cap balance.

Now lose Dugan 750k, Packer 300k and Milne 150k for about 1.2m and we should have approximately that to spend.

My recommendation is to:
Sign Jimmy the Jet for 500k to play fullback or right centre.
Sign Gallen for 550k as Packers replacement.
Retain Mann with an upgrade of 100k and after trailing Mann/Dufty for the fullback position, extend Dufty's contract for another two years with an upgrade of 50k fullback this year,

2018 Team.
1. Mann/Dufty/ Jimmy the Jet
2. Macdonald/Mann
3. Jimmy the Jet/Aitken/Junior
4. Lafai/Mann
5. Nightingale/Mann
6. Widdop/Field
7. Hunt/Hutch
8. Gallan
9. McInnes/Robson
10. Vaughan
11. Thompson/Junior
12. Frizell/Junior
13. De Belin/Junior

Ah Mau
Kerr
Lawrie
Sims
Robson/Mann/Aitken
Leilua
Host
Sele
Hind

Possm mate, there are many variables that just dont have a clear picture as yet.
For example, there is no U20's comp (as we know it now) next year, so players such as Masters, both Lomax brothers, johns, Willis ans Sailor ( to name a few so probably more) may have to be fitted under this cap (Millward did say some U20's have signed long term deals with STI). So in reality if they are included as part of the squad then at 120k each that sort if diminishes the $$$$ available.
The "reported" tabloid signing fees may or may not be accurate as well.
We also can't determine the structure of current or proposed contracts such as wether they are front and back loaded for example.
There are also many of the current squad that wont be re-signed and some that will (like the offers for Mann and Hutch) and there may be even some re-signed that may shock us all. But its all about balancing 2 squads now (in 2018) and each squad really needs players playing in their correct positions so as to back-up or challenge in 1st grade.
Reality Possm, is we may have only enough coin to make 1 more major signing and Millward had already indicated thay will be a forward.

 

[WardyRedV]

Packer isn't even our second best prop.. Ah Mau has been more consistent and been making more metres this year off the bench. Packer only just made it back into the Nz test team over JWH. I don't see him retaining that spot for too much longer. He does provide Mongrel but it's not the end of the world. From reading some of these comments you'd think we've lost Taumalolo and Thurston! Dugan will be a defensive loss but he has crippled our attack for years now. His future was at centre and that's where he will be playing for the Sharks. He's an amazing player and gave us his all.. when he actually played but he's gone now and we have juniors who will hopefully he replacing him. He won't be a top line "fullback" for long.

 

[Old Timer]

Packer isn't even our second best prop.. Ah Mau has been more consistent and been making more metres this year off the bench. Packer only just made it back into the Nz test team over JWH. I don't see him retaining that spot for too much longer. He does provide Mongrel but it's not the end of the world. From reading some of these comments you'd think we've lost Taumalolo and Thurston! Dugan will be a defensive loss but he has crippled our attack for years now. His future was at centre and that's where he will be playing for the Sharks. He's an amazing player and gave us his all.. when he actually played but he's gone now and we have juniors who will hopefully he replacing him. He won't be a top line "fullback" for long.

Taking your points into account it basically leads back to some common ground.
Who from within the system will be the replacements, when will they see 1st grade and does our coach have the requisite skill level to get them up to NRL quality?
OR
Will we again sign "journeymen" to gain so called depth but not actually the required skilled players that will make the difference?

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

In 2018 when Hunt arrives we should have a lethal set of halves. But there is other positions we need to look at to be competitive and that is our wingers. Nightingale looks like he will hold his spot. I know he still has the smarts to be a good winged but he lacks speed. MacDonald has not displayed anything special and he also lacks the speed that modern day wingers need to have.
Centres will be Lafai and Aitkin, they are a good pairing, but apart from Mann there needs to be a ready made replacement for either of them. Saints need to identify who can step up from the Juniors.
Packer will be a loss, although on recent form it might not be as bad as we think. He has been overshadowed by Vaughan, who in my opinion Saints best buy in quite a few years.
Packer is a brute when taking the big ups, quick in play the balls but does concede a fair amount of penalties.
Do we have a ready made replacement for Packer, not yet. If we are going to use one of our Juniors they would need some game time to see if they will make the transition to first grade and that should be done this season.
Overall there is still work to be done for next season. We have played well in games this season but to be a contender next season we need to take our game to the next level.
This is just my opinion.

Personally I don't think Packer will be missed as much as is being touted.
Promote Kerr and Lawrie NOW and give them a chance to acclimatize to FG.
We hardly use the 4th interchange anyway.
They may well become ready made solutions for 2018.
Our forward pack is already very competitive and will be even more dominant in front of a strong halves pairing.
I am also believe Hutch will be a very good back up for Hunt and Widdop.
I agree that with Hunt coming on board, we will inherit a kicking game and a half back that can take control of a game and get us over the line in close encounters.
The big question mark is the backline.
Absolutely pedestrian right now - we have no one that can score long range tries and very easy to close down - especially close to the line.
I think Lafai ( who is currently overplaying his hand because he's trying to create opportunities out wide) and Nightingale (very reliable and still a great winger) pick themselves.
After that, we have to inject some new strike capability.
Aitken, Mann and McDonald can all do a job but we could do with a class center that will compliment Lafai.
Dufty is potentially our X factor.
Improve the strike capability in the back line, and we will have a team that can compete with anyone.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Centres will be Lafai and Aitkin, they are a good pairing, but apart from Mann there needs to be a ready made replacement for either of them. Saints need to identify who can step up from the Juniors.

Over the last year or so i've been keeping a close eye on Zac Lomax. Now hear me when I say, rarely do I put so much hope in a junior, they are untested and you never know which way they could go... But Zac is showing far too much promise for me to turn a blind eye. He is only 17 and is probably the most dominant centre in the under 20s comp at the moment. He's huge, and STILL growing, with footwork and excellent ball-skills, kicks goals... He's the real deal.

Massive future in the NRL for this kid, I have absolutely no doubt he will make the step up and excel.

 

[SGMax]

Not sure how everyone can be so forgiving re James Roberts.
We offered him a good contract of around $400K and he "signed for less" with the Broncos so he could be with a better club and be coached by Bennett.
I can forgive players for going elsewhere for more money but he accepted less to not be a Dragon.
At that point I would put a line through that player permanently even though I was very keen for him to join the Dragons at the time.

Another point, with all the stuffing around with contracts this year, if I was the club, I would make it clear that we would not deal with certain player managers.
I would also encourage the current playing group aligned with those managers to consider finding another agent before negotiations for a new contract come around.
If more clubs took this stance then maybe these agents would behave with a little integrity and respect for the clubs that are the real source of their income.

 

[WardyRedV]

Taking your points into account it basically leads back to some common ground.
Who from within the system will be the replacements, when will they see 1st grade and does our coach have the requisite skill level to get them up to NRL quality?
OR
Will we again sign "journeymen" to gain so called depth but not actually the required skilled players that will make the difference?

We have two props in Lawrie and Kerr who have been noticed. Millward stated this but also said they would be looking for a replacement. We all know who our junior fullback candidates are and they have been noticed by everyone from junior state selectors to the media. Only time will tell on a number of the points you made but we've had good go forward the last couple of years without Vaughan and I feel whoever Packer is replaced with won't hurt us too much (unless he is a complete plodder but it seems the clubs learnt it's lesson about quality). As I said only time will tell but I have faith that these two losses won't hurt us as much as it's being made out. We can't keep everyone and we made our bed so it's time to sleep in it. No team keeps everyone.. not one.

 

[BankstownDragon]

Packer isn't even our second best prop.. Ah Mau has been more consistent and been making more metres this year off the bench. Packer only just made it back into the Nz test team over JWH. I don't see him retaining that spot for too much longer. He does provide Mongrel but it's not the end of the world. From reading some of these comments you'd think we've lost Taumalolo and Thurston! Dugan will be a defensive loss but he has crippled our attack for years now. His future was at centre and that's where he will be playing for the Sharks. He's an amazing player and gave us his all.. when he actually played but he's gone now and we have juniors who will hopefully he replacing him. He won't be a top line "fullback" for long.

Agree that he wont be a top line fullback for long, but 1 to 2 years is plenty long enough to mentor these not as yet ready juniors Field/Dufty.
Then and only then Dugan should be move into the centres making it an easier transition for whomever steps up to 1st grade.
But the short sighted and one dimentional managers in our club dont pocess any lateral or forward thinking. They cant see that Dugan s salary goes beyond his position and should be reconciled in what he can deliver off the field aswell.
1. Mentoring juniors.
2. Covering 2 key positions.
3. Taking presure off juniors development.
4. Image (merchandise, ticket sales, memberships ect...)
Cheers.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Not sure how everyone can be so forgiving re James Roberts.
We offered him a good contract of around $400K and he "signed for less" with the Broncos so he could be with a better club and be coached by Bennett.
I can forgive players for going elsewhere for more money but he accepted less to not be a Dragon.
At that point I would put a line through that player permanently even though I was very keen for him to join the Dragons at the time.

Another point, with all the stuffing around with contracts this year, if I was the club, I would make it clear that we would not deal with certain player managers.
I would also encourage the current playing group aligned with those managers to consider finding another agent before negotiations for a new contract come around.
If more clubs took this stance then maybe these agents would behave with a little integrity and respect for the clubs that are the real source of their income.

The point you miss is the McGregor factor.
Signing for less to be coached by Bennett is totally understandable for a player that wants to realize their potential.
While McGregor is our coach, we will find it difficult to attract top liners.
We had to pay big money for Hunt.
The simple axiom is - The best coaches will attract the best players.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Taking your points into account it basically leads back to some common ground.
Who from within the system will be the replacements, when will they see 1st grade and does our coach have the requisite skill level to get them up to NRL quality?
OR
Will we again sign "journeymen" to gain so called depth but not actually the required skilled players that will make the difference?

OT mate I hope we dont sign journeymen again definately not what we need at this stage of our go forward......we need a rock solid fullback for starters.....irrespective of what some think Dugan leaving has created a huge hole to fill

 

[WardyRedV]

Agree that he wont be a top line fullback for long, but 1 to 2 years is plenty long enough to mentor these not as yet ready juniors Field/Dufty.
Then and only then Dugan should be move into the centres making it an easier transition for whomever steps up to 1st grade.
But the short sighted and one dimentional managers in our club dont pocess any lateral or forward thinking. They cant see that Dugan s salary goes beyond his position and should be reconciled in what he can deliver off the field aswell.
1. Mentoring juniors.
2. Covering 2 key positions.
3. Taking presure off juniors development.
4. Image (merchandise, ticket sales, memberships ect...)
Cheers.

He wanted 1 million from the club and had a tantrum when he didn't get the offer.. he said he'd be off to French rugby or another team where he'd get more. He didn't care about the club, he just wanted $$$.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Signing news:

Packer to Tigers
Dugan to Sharks

Objective View

And objective view to the storm.
Wait a minute he has back flipped and returned to the dragons.
At least for a week

 

[The Damo]

1. The top clubs do it.
2. Losing our two best players is a little different to 'not keeping everyone in the current squad'. Our club's rejects are our topliners.

Objective View

You think Packer is better than Vaughn? How very objective.

 

[The Damo]

So who does the $1M player get to play with?
The best players in the squad or the 2nd best or the journeymen we will ultimately buy?
Hunt has to have some decent players to work with and he his not here to wait while we yet again try to get the roster correct.
2018 should have been our shot at the title and how do you expect to do that with losing test quality players and not having suitable replacements?
Hunt should be able to come, slot into a well oiled machine and simply replace the weak link we have in the halves.
Now he is coming to a club with a disrupted roster and having to play with people who will be either new to NRL or our club so in other words our squad will have L plates on early in the season.
Simply not a professional way to run things.
Hunt cannot do it all on his own.

He gets to play with a test player in the halves, possibly a test winger, an origin player and Thompson in the second row, origin 18th man lock, should've been origin prop, a left centre who can match it with any in the comp when on song, very good hooker, and maybe some exciting and speedy youngsters, and junior rep forwards. Don't think he'll be slitting his wrists

 

[SGMax]

The point you miss is the McGregor factor.
Signing for less to be coached by Bennett is totally understandable for a player that wants to realize their potential.
While McGregor is our coach, we will find it difficult to attract top liners.
We had to pay big money for Hunt.
The simple axiom is - The best coaches will attract the best players.

No I didn't miss a point. There were 3 clubs interested and he ruled out the dragons very early.
That was following a much improved 2015 season.
You can't seriously believe comments from players about staying or signing for less. Its always the wealthier clubs that get their signings to make these statements to cover up any suspicion of paper bags as part of the arrangement.
It was reported that Roberts signed for 150K per year less, As if !!!
His agent for a start would not sacrifice that much commission.
The real axiom is - the most money will attract the best players or money talks and bull.......

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

No I didn't miss a point. There were 3 clubs interested and he ruled out the dragons very early.
That was following a much improved 2015 season.
You can't seriously believe comments from players about staying or signing for less. Its always the wealthier clubs that get their signings to make these statements to cover up any suspicion of paper bags as part of the arrangement.
It was reported that Roberts signed for 150K per year less, As if !!!
His agent for a start would not sacrifice that much commission.
The real axiom is - the most money will attract the best players or money talks and bull.......

The real real axiom: The best coaches and the most money will attract the best players.
How does that sound?

 

[The Damo]

I don't think Millward knew what would happen to the roster - and that's part of the problem. I think he believed that Packer and Dugan resigning was just a given; Packer in particular, else he would have wrapped him up last year. He's not allowing for external market forces and in his role, he should be.

He may not be allowing for them, but the argument that he should've resigned Packer last year doesn't allow for Packer to have the smarts to delay signing knowing he could make himself worth more. We don't know whether any moves were made or not. But unless we made a remarkable offer he would've been an idiot to sign before the rep season this year.

 

[SGMax]

The real real axiom: The best coaches and the most money will attract the best players.
How does that sound?

The real point I was trying to make was that he didn't want to join the Dragons despite receiving the best monetary offer from them and now that "the best coach" has lost interest, we should welcome him in.

 

[BennyV]

He may not be allowing for them, but the argument that he should've resigned Packer last year doesn't allow for Packer to have the smarts to delay signing knowing he could make himself worth more. We don't know whether any moves were made or not. But unless we made a remarkable offer he would've been an idiot to sign before the rep season this year.

Disagree. Rugby League is a fickle bitch, and any smart player Packers age (and within context - top prop in a struggling team and all that) would lock up his future as early as possible. Otherwise they risk a monster injury or some other mishap wiping out their chance of a deal.

Millward stated in an update that he intended on waiting until after Dugan and Widdop were sorted before turning to Packer. This strategy bit him, hard, as it gave the market a chance to unfold the way it has with respect to the Tigpies...mind you, he also stated that all 3 were managed by the same manager which is untrue, so there's a question mark as to where his mind is at...