2017 Penalty Statistics

[Valheru]

I Have been keeping track of the penalties conceded and received this year and I thought I would share the results thus far after 9 rounds as I think you will all find it interesting to say the least. A caveat on this for any non-roosters supporter who wanders in, I am not apportioning blame for any loss to the refs, merely sharing some statistical facts.

So, let's look at penalties conceded first which look like the below in descending order:

Cronulla - 69
Penrith - 67
Storm - 66
Manly - 63
Warriors/Parra - 59
Roosters - 58
Dogs/Raiders - 56
Cowboys - 55
Souths/knights/dragons/titans - 54
Wests - 51
Brisbane - 48

So, 58 for the roosters or approx. 6.5 per game, which as you can see is middle of the road stuff. Sure, we could be more disciplined, especially at key times but overall, discipline doesn't appear to be a major issue for us thus far.

With that in mind, penalties received looks like the below in descending order:

Storm - 68
Cowboys/Raiders/Dogs - 65
Broncos - 62
Dragons - 61
Penrith - 60
Cronulla/Manly - 58
Parra - 55
Warriors/Knights/Titans - 54
Souths - 53
Wests - 50
Roosters - 41

Does anyone else see a complete outlier in the above? We are dead last and have received 9 less penalties than the next worst team and on average we have received 16 less penalties than any given team in the comp!

This all becomes more meaningful when considering penalty differential which looks like the below from best to worst:

Brisbane +14
Cowboys +10
Dogs/Raiders +9
Dragons +7
Storm +2
Titans/Knights 0
Wests/Souths -1
Parra -4
Manly/Warriors -5
Penrith - 7
Cronulla -11
Roosters -17

Again, we are dead last in this category. On it's own, the differential stat suggests we have a drastic discipline issue but we know that to no be true given we are middle of the road in penalties conceded. The only team in the same stratosphere as us is the sharks who have conceded 11 more penalties than us to get their differential. Every other team with 58 or less penalties conceded has at least received as many back in return to be at 0 or better in the differential.

There are inherent issue with our football side at the moment and we do tend to concede penalties at the worst times in games but clearly, we are not getting penalties that every other team receives.

 

[Headless Chook]

Really interesting observations here. Nice one.

In the 2013-15 period when we were conceding a stack of penalties in our red zone we could at least defend our line. Pretty much accused of doing so to set our line. Probably some truth to it tbh. Wondering what the ratio of received vs conceded was like during that period? I'll take a punt and say it was no where near as bad.

Cronulla, so far are the most ill disciplined (thanks largely to Maloney, who is most penalised player in the NRL this year) but they've also received 17 more penalties than us. They've also played against 6 teams who give away the least penalties.

It does seem as though we are getting the rough end of the stick. You don't win too many games these days without an even or better possession count than the opposition.

H.C

 

[H.H]

What you need to do is look at the average penalties each side concedes in general.

Then once you do that, look at how many penalties each side concedes against us.

Tell me what you see then.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Hey Valheru, send your stats to the Roosters. Thought Robbo let the refs off the hook in his post-match presso.
After telling all the ref got that call right, which it was of course, he could've asked would they have blown the whistle on such a technicality in a finals game. Then he could go on about how offside they were when we were camped on their line or the lack of sin bin when they committed a professional foul on their try line.

No denying we were shit but I'd rather we gift them the win and not the refs.

 

[Valheru]

What you need to do is look at the average penalties each side concedes in general.

Then once you do that, look at how many penalties each side concedes against us.

Tell me what you see then.

Good idea.

Below is what each team has conceded against us thus far with their 2017 average (rounded) in brackets

Titans - 5 (6)
Bulldogs - 2 (6)
Penrith - 10 (7)
Souths - 4 (6)
Manly - 6 (7)
Brisbane - 2 (5)
Newcastle - 1 (6)
Dragons - 9 (6)
Warriors - 2 (7)

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Thanks Valheru.. just confirmed what we all knew.. albeit a lot worse than I suspected. the fact that the 5 teams directly above us in penalties received are all out of the 8 says a lot.

As an extension of that id be keen to know what percentage of those are ruck or offside penalties (in defence only not on kick chase) as they are the differential penalties that really cost you.

For instance in that Broncos game if I remember correctly 1 was a ruck penalty however the other I was for accidental offside 10 metres out from our own line for which we get no real benefit. compare that to a ruck or offside penalty on the 3rd tackle or later and you begin to see that all penalties are most definitely not created equal.

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Also highlights the idiocy of the commentators who carry on about our ill discipline...

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Hey Valheru, send your stats to the Roosters. Thought Robbo let the refs off the hook in his post-match presso.
After telling all the ref got that call right, which it was of course, he could've asked would they have blown the whistle on such a technicality in a finals game. Then he could go on about how offside they were when we were camped on their line or the lack of sin bin when they committed a professional foul on their try line.

No denying we were shit but I'd rather we gift them the win and not the refs.

Yeah he definitely let them off the hook. I don't think anyone was blowing about the penalty itself just the inconsistency in which the rules are applied. There's no doubt that the warriors were offside on multiple occasions while we were camped out on their line plus Cordner clearly getting hit around the chops but the ref chose not to blow those penalties as it could have effectively decided the game. now rightly or wrongly that's consistent with the general standard that has been applied throughout the year.

What shits me is when he's presently with an almost identical scenario on the other end he blows the whistle(although I wonder if we hadn't come up with possession if he would have blown the penalty) and decides the game.

I saying that we should have kicked the ball into touch and had them with six tackles coming out of their own end instead we get another SKD Mensa meeting.. that's a different rant though.. ha-ha

 

[Valheru]

Thanks Valheru.. just confirmed what we all knew.. albeit a lot worse than I suspected. the fact that the 5 teams directly above us in penalties received are all out of the 8 says a lot.

As an extension of that id be keen to know what percentage of those are ruck or offside penalties (in defence only not on kick chase) as they are the differential penalties that really cost you.

For instance in that Broncos game if I remember correctly 1 was a ruck penalty however the other I was for accidental offside 10 metres out from our own line for which we get no real benefit. compare that to a ruck or offside penalty on the 3rd tackle or later and you begin to see that all penalties are most definitely not created equal.

Yep agreed

Unfortunately I wouldn't know where to start to get the data for what the penalties we have received were awarded for and I don't think I have the energy to do that lol.

I will say though that logically I would expect any random number of penalties to constitute an approximate even share of penalties in the attacking zone and coming out of trouble. Just on memory, we don't seem to get the ones coming out of trouble (ANZAC day game being the exception). Both penalties against the warriors were on their goal line and our 1 against Newcastle was on our goal line but due to an accidental offside.

Keeping in mind that we have been bottom 4 in penalties received for all but 1 of the last 10 years, for me, there is one of two conclusions to the data:

1. Teams make a point to work extra hard on discipline when playing the roosters. I am not being facetious here, perhaps for whatever reason this is seen as the key to beating us? I would think however that good discipline would be a strong tactic against any side.
2. The refs just aren't awarding us penalties that everyone gets for whatever reason.

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Yep agreed

Unfortunately I wouldn't know where to start to get the data for what the penalties we have received were awarded for and I don't think I have the energy to do that lol.

I will say though that logically I would expect any random number of penalties to constitute an approximate even share of penalties in the attacking zone and coming out of trouble. Just on memory, we don't seem to get the ones coming out of trouble (ANZAC day game being the exception). Both penalties against the warriors were on their goal line and our 1 against Newcastle was on our goal line but due to an accidental offside.

Keeping in mind that we have been bottom 4 in penalties received for all but 1 of the last 10 years, for me, there is one of two conclusions to the data:

1. Teams make a point to work extra hard on discipline when playing the roosters. I am not being facetious here, perhaps for whatever reason this is seen as the key to beating us? I would think however that good discipline would be a strong tactic against any side.
2. The refs just aren't awarding us penalties that everyone gets for whatever reason.

We'll have to make an effort to keep track of it on here.. it shouldn't be hard to catalogue them all considering we'll only have to remember about 4.5 per game.. ha-ha

On your other point I think number 1 is almost impossible. Teams cant miraculously change the way they play from a discipline standpoint form one week to the next. Anecdotally I would expect that with the size of our forward pack and team in general we should be getting more ruck penalties as opposed to less.

In my opinion our reputation has almost become a self fulfilling prophecy in the sense that we are trying not to even give the hint that we are holding down too long for fear of the fact that it appears the refs have a preconceived idea that we are ill-disciplined. On point 2 I'd say that's most definitely the case and the explanation probably has something to do our reputation working in the opposite. time for another Robbo press conference questioning what is a very obvious statistical outlier.

 

[Zadar]

Thanks Valheru.. just confirmed what we all knew.. albeit a lot worse than I suspected. the fact that the 5 teams directly above us in penalties received are all out of the 8 says a lot.

As an extension of that id be keen to know what percentage of those are ruck or offside penalties (in defence only not on kick chase) as they are the differential penalties that really cost you.

For instance in that Broncos game if I remember correctly 1 was a ruck penalty however the other I was for accidental offside 10 metres out from our own line for which we get no real benefit. compare that to a ruck or offside penalty on the 3rd tackle or later and you begin to see that all penalties are most definitely not created equal.

Don't forget losing the penalty 5-1 v the knights, and the 1 we received was for an accidental offside by them.

 

[OVP]

Another thing I've noticed is that the ref's are desperate to penalise Jared to give away the first penalty of the match. Two weeks running, Jared has been penalised first and yet he didn't have a hand on the attacker at all. He was up and ready and waiting for the guy to play the ball, and the ref penalises him for no reason at all. Getting real sick of it. Has anyone noticed if this has happened in any other matches this year ? I only started noticing it the last two weeks, but wouldn't be surprised if it has been going on all year.

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

as mentioned in the game day thread I'm going to start tracking the types of penalties we receive where possible. More out of interest than anything...

Round 11 Roosters v Bulldogs

Penalty count 3-6

Holding down in the ruck
Drop out not going the 10
Dangerous Tackle- lifting Manu

 

[Valheru]

as mentioned in the game day thread I'm going to start tracking the types of penalties we receive where possible. More out of interest than anything...

Round 11 Roosters v Bulldogs

Penalty count 3-6

Holding down in the ruck
Drop out not going the 10
Dangerous Tackle- lifting Manu

Great work. As promised i will update the full stats soon.

Can anyone remember the nature of the penalties received against parra?

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Just quickly skipped through the game on foxtel go ... slow day in my office.. ha-ha

might do others if I get the time

Roosters v Eels

Penalty Count 6-2

High tackle on SST
Offside after a line break
Second effort in the ruck after Mitchell half line break
Holding Down In The Ruck
Hand on the ball in the Ruck
High Tackle Nathan Brown Hitting Keary on the ground after Parra lost ball (only second half penalty)

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Round 9

Roosters v Warriors

Penalty Count 2-7

holding down in the ruck
Offside after a line break

Care of valerhu

 

[TheFrog]

Penalties are an extremely blunt instrument if the intent is to influence the outcome of games. Penalty counts can be recalled and posted in threads like this by those trying to show their teams have been disadvantaged. Much better to concentrate on 50-50 calls that don't leave a count if you are a ref looking for a certain result. If the team concerned is the Broncos you can even make up rules as you go along.

The truth with penalty counts is that all teams use them when under pressure to reset their line. Some more than others. This skews penalty counts against those teams. Refs should be using the bin in such cases.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

as mentioned in the game day thread I'm going to start tracking the types of penalties we receive where possible. More out of interest than anything...

Round 11 Roosters v Bulldogs

Penalty count 3-6

Holding down in the ruck
Drop out not going the 10
Dangerous Tackle- lifting Manu

After showing good discipline against us last week, the Dogs conceded 8 penalties last night

 

[Bgoodorgoodatit]

Round 12

Roosters v Raiders

Penalty count 9 - 6

Holding down in the ruck
Offside not square at marker
Holding down in the ruck
Facial in the ruck
Shoulder charge
Leg pull in the ruck
Holding down in the ruck
Tackled in the air/ interfering with the catcher not sure what they called there exactly
Back chat

We had a run of 7 straight penalties which must be some kind of record.. Haha

After two of the penalise we managed to drop it on the first tackle so we didn't really take advantage winning the count.

 

[Valheru]

Ok guys, I think it is important to keep these stats updated even when things are going well in terms of form and penalties. Keep in mind these stats will be a bit skewed up until the completion of round 18 due to byes.

TOTAL PENALTIES CONCEDED (Up until R12)

Broncos - 58
Wests - 62
Dragons - 63
Cowboys - 66
Titans/Souths - 67
Warriors - 70
Knights - 71
Roosters - 72
Dogs - 75
Manly - 76
Penrith - 77
Parra/Raiders - 80
Storm - 85
Sharks - 86

Roosters sitting 9th although the 2 teams immediately above us have played 1 less game

TOTAL PENALTIES RECEIVED (Up until R12)

Dogs - 87
Raiders - 83
Storm - 80
Souths - 77
Cowboys - 76
Penrith - 75
Broncos/Sharks - 74
Dragons - 72
Manly/Knights - 70
Titans/Parra - 69
Warriors - 64
Roosters - 59
Wests - 56

Things have improved a bit here but we are still 2nd last with wests having a game in hand.

PENALTY DIFFERENTIAL (Up until R12)

Broncos +16
Dogs +12
Cowboys +10
Souths +10
Dragons +9
Raiders +3
Titans +2
Knights -1
Penrith -2
Storm -5
Wests/Manly/Warriors -6
Parra -11
Sharks -12
Roosters -13

We are still not fairing well in this area. Finally, penalties received against last 3 opponents with their average conceded in brackets

Parra - 6 (7)
Dogs - 3 (7)
Raiders - 9 (7)