Clubs fear NRL can’t afford to expand

[byrner]

i was thinking about this the other day and alot of people would think that the nrl wanting a presence in the illawarra region would save the dragons from relocating, but if the dragons were to relcoate, then the sharks are close enough to take over the illawarra/south coast region

but who would take over the liverpool/macarthur regions if wests tigers were to relocate??? i bet penrith, parra and bulldogs would be fighting over the area...

Wests Tigers don't really represent the Liverpool and Macarthur regions as it is.
They barely play at Campbelltown and don't have as strong of a connection to the region as people may think.

Parramatta have junior clubs not far from liverpool so would be a natural to take over some of the area with bulldogs taking over other parts.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

i was thinking about this the other day and alot of people would think that the nrl wanting a presence in the illawarra region would save the dragons from relocating, but if the dragons were to relcoate, then the sharks are close enough to take over the illawarra/south coast region

It may just be personaly prejudice, but i just dont see the ARLC taking ST George (probably the most famous RL brand on the planet) out of Sydney. I could see them taking over ownership to root out all of the leftovers still living in the 70s, and probably moving them to the SFS to justify the massive investment the stadium will be getting, but i just cant imagine them leaving Sydney.

Tigers on the other hand, should probably be a bit worried.'Wests Tigers' is by far the youngest brand in Sydney and could, with a bit of effort from the rest, be replaced in the community.

but who would take over the liverpool/macarthur regions if wests tigers were to relocate??? i bet penrith, parra and bulldogs would be fighting over the area...

Was junior development to be taken out of the hands of clubs and centralised, then id say officially call the SW a Panthers area

I posted this in another thread last year advocating this...

This morning, through pure boredom, i had a look through the Tigers Fans Forum on this site for a reaction to the poor Campbeltown crowd and Grant Mayors quotes that the tigers might not play there anymore...

(First of all i should say im not a tigers fan, just wanna see whats best for the League)

It seems to be pretty much accepted that:
- Since the Magpies only moved to Cbltwn in 1987 (Wiki refernce, correct me if thats wrong with that), most of the locals out there didnt embrace them.
- Since the advent of the WT, locals in the SW have definately not accepted them. WT have far better support in the innerwest out to Cambrmatta area.
- Much of Cbltwn's population are families that have moved out there for cheaper houses and therefore already have a team.

This brings me to an idea...

What if the Tigers just left the area and decided to focus on the areas more towrads the east?? Leichhardt wont last much longer, they will probably end up in ANZ/new WS stadium, theyll probably get better crowds for doing it. They only seem to be in the area now because they feel the area is important to the game more so than the health of their club.

Now with no team in the South West, what if the Panthers were given the area to work with. An up and coming team that has already had to learn to live in the same environment in Penrith (people that have moved west, already with a team) and i would argue have done pretty well with it, they could become the team of the entire Western Sydney.

We know transport from the South West to Penrith/Blacktown stadium wont be a problem given the new Airport and the transport links thatll bring.

So what do you think?? Would it be better for the Tigers to leave the South West?? Would it be beneficial for the Panthers to have a whole new area to work with??

 

[Tommy Smith]

Expansion has destroyed the competitiveness of the AFL competition.

That league is now basically a farce, and you'll see five or six matches each week with a sub-$1.20 favourite. And quite often $1.01 favourites.

I think we should be careful in following the same path, at the risk of turning the NRL into a lopsided joke like the AFL. I just don't see the talent for two more 25-man squads being available.

 

[Nerd]

Expansion has destroyed the competitiveness of the AFL competition.

That league is now basically a farce, and you'll see five or six matches each week with a sub-$1.20 favourite. And quite often $1.01 favourites.

I think we should be careful in following the same path, at the risk of turning the NRL into a lopsided joke like the AFL. I just don't see the talent for two more 25-man squads being available.

Expansion has been disastrous for the AFL for one reason. They have forced teams into areas that didn't want them (hello GWS & Suns). I believe a second Brisbane team and a Perth team will stack up financially and will no doubt improve the value for the next rights deal.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Fair point.

I just don't want to see a heavily diluted competition, similar to what the AFL are experiencing.

They have 18 teams, and just 3 rounds in you can already pinpoint at least 6 or 7 that have next to no chance of making the top 8. Conversely, we're 7 rounds in and and there's only have 1 team atm that probably can't make the finals, and that's largely because Manly have been decimated by injuries.

The NRLs greatest strength is its competitiveness. Just look at the ladder now. Not to mention to ability of teams to go from cellar dwellars to Premiership contenders within a year. This gives the fans great hope.

And so the NRL needs to do it's due diligence to ensure this competitiveness will not be compromised. Otherwise I'd love to see a Perth side and a 2nd Brisbane team in the comp. Hell, even a Wellington team. Central Qld and Central Coast. We're lucky that so many regions are crying out for teams, as opposed to the AFL who have forced unwanted teams down the throats of regions that couldn't give a shit about fumbleball.

 

[mongoose]

I think 16 teams is ideal, but Perth, Brisbane 2 and NZ 2 are a must. A couple of them may have to be relocations.

 

[reanimate]

Expansion has destroyed the competitiveness of the AFL competition.

That league is now basically a farce, and you'll see five or six matches each week with a sub-$1.20 favourite. And quite often $1.01 favourites.

I think we should be careful in following the same path, at the risk of turning the NRL into a lopsided joke like the AFL. I just don't see the talent for two more 25-man squads being available.

We don't have the same problem as AFL, it's only big in 3 backwater states of Australia, hence their talent pool is extremely limited. We have the ability to import RL players from NZ, England, France, PNG, the Pacific Islands etc, as well as raid a code very similar to ours in RU for talent.

 

[reanimate]

Wests Tigers don't really represent the Liverpool and Macarthur regions as it is.
They barely play at Campbelltown and don't have as strong of a connection to the region as people may think.

Parramatta have junior clubs not far from liverpool so would be a natural to take over some of the area with bulldogs taking over other parts.

Wests only started playing at Campbelltown in the late 80s, that's a relatively recent move given their long history. Some of my girlfriend's relatives are old Wests fans from when they played at Lidcombe and were based at Ashfield- they viewed the Tigers merger as a natural one as they like to pretend they never moved to Campbelltown (a move they hated when it happened).

 

[Foreign Legion]

I think newtown moved to campbeltown first

 

[alien]

doctor, panthers have a big enough junior district as it is, and the locals were starting to embrace wests (magpies) out here and they focused on getting the new generation into supporting them with basically free tickets (it was $5 to join the mini magpies club which gave kids entry into all the home games, stickers etc), but super league destroyed all that

byrner, the reason i mentioned liverpool/macarthur is because western suburbs junior district goes from liverpool to campbelltown

 

[alien]

I think newtown moved to campbeltown first

Financial pressures forced the team out of the NSWRL Premiership at the end of 1983. The club continued to seek readmission, pursuing various different alternatives. One such alternative, proposed for the 1985 season (after a planned one-year sojourn from the League) involved a full relocation to Orana Park, at Campbelltown in south/west Sydney, and during this period the club was being run by their loyal stalwart and CEO, Frank Farrington.

This plan involved a name change for the club, to the Newtown-Campbelltown Jets. The proposal, including a new logo with the new name on the traditional royal blue jersey, was approved by the football club directors. In the end these plans fell through, as the economic recession of the early 1980s prevented the club from finding a suitable buyer of the Newtown Leagues Club, on Stanmore Road, Stanmore.

This left the Jets out of the premier Australian Rugby league competitions. Several years later the Jets were able to sell their clubhouse, now the Cypriot Club, but by then time had elapsed and readmission to the top competition was not considered.

It is worth noting, however, that for a short time in their final season of 1983, the Jets called Campbelltown home. As a show of commitment to the Campbelltown- Liverpool area, with a new junior league structure ready to be implemented at the Jets' instigation for the 1984 season, Newtown played six home games of the club's final season, at Orana Park in Campbelltown, including an opening round blockbuster against 1981-82 premiers Parramatta Eels, won 54-14 by a rampant Eels combination.

Ultimately, when the final deal between Newtown and the Campbelltown- Liverpool junior rugby league fell through in 1984 and it was confirmed by 1985 that Newtown would not be returning to top flight competition, the Ashfield/Lidcombe-based Western Suburbs Magpies, suspended by the League at the same time as Newtown but having had the financial resources to earn a stay of execution, negotiated a deal for the 1987 season whereby Wests would move all home games to Campbelltown and claim ownership of the vast junior league in south-western Sydney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtown_Jets

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Wests only started playing at Campbelltown in the late 80s, that's a relatively recent move given their long history. Some of my girlfriend's relatives are old Wests fans from when they played at Lidcombe and were based at Ashfield- they viewed the Tigers merger as a natural one as they like to pretend they never moved to Campbelltown (a move they hated when it happened).

I reckon the Balmain ere expecting Wests to see the merge as an opportunity to head back into the innercity rather than digging in their heels with Campbeltown oval (i refuse to call that ground a "stadium":sarcasm::sarcasm.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

doctor, panthers have a big enough junior district as it is

......
byrner, the reason i mentioned liverpool/macarthur is because western suburbs junior district goes from liverpool to campbelltown

I suggest Panthers taking over Campbeltown with the assumption that junior development is sentralised by the ARLC, thereby granting Penrith no junior development advantage with the move...

I suggest it more from the POV of attracting fans from the SW to Penrith park (particularly once the airport links are built)

, and the locals were starting to embrace wests (magpies) out here and they focused on getting the new generation into supporting them with basically free tickets (it was $5 to join the mini magpies club which gave kids entry into all the home games, stickers etc), but super league destroyed all that

It might have worked out differently had Wests stayed unmerged, but we all know they arent coming back with sydney already having 9 teams.

I just dont believe the people of the SW will ever take kindly to an innercity team paying lipservice to the area.

Between Panthers, Bulldogs and Eels i reckon most people in the SW will find someone to cheer for and will happily hate the rest.

 

[Spanner in the works]

Personally I'd like to see Perth and Wellington get the next two spots, since they both open up new timeslots (a second opportunity for the earlier NZ game, as well as the later Perth game). I dare say a Warriors/Wellington game could be just as lucrative as a Brisbane/Brisbane 2 game anyway.

After that:

• Round 2 expansion: Queensland gets two new sides - one in Brisbane, one in Central Queensland; and

• Round 3 expansion: Central Coast and PNG.

 

[Von Neumann]

Personally I'd like to see Perth and Wellington get the next two spots, since they both open up new timeslots (a second opportunity for the earlier NZ game, as well as the later Perth game). I dare say a Warriors/Wellington game could be just as lucrative as a Brisbane/Brisbane 2 game anyway.

After that:

• Round 2 expansion: Queensland gets two new sides - one in Brisbane, one in Central Queensland; and

• Round 3 expansion: Central Coast and PNG.

I'd like to see a brisbane 2 team. Reports that brisbane 2 alone is worth $250m to the competition. Its a true derby for the second biggest RL market. Its hard to pass that up and then I would think a Perth team is about time -- BUT I do want the very next cab off the rank to be NZ-2 after Perth.

I dont see a future for a central queensland team. I dont see a future for a central coast team unless its a relocation, and even then its probably the lesser of several options - but it may prove the easiest to implement.

__

Basically I don't see how they can afford NOT to expand. I'd say its essential

 

[CC_Roosters]

I'd like to see a brisbane 2 team. Reports that brisbane 2 alone is worth $250m to the competition. Its a true derby for the second biggest RL market. Its hard to pass that up and then I would think a Perth team is about time -- BUT I do want the very next cab off the rank to be NZ-2 after Perth.

I dont see a future for a central queensland team. I dont see a future for a central coast team unless its a relocation, and even then its probably the lesser of several options - but it may prove the easiest to implement.

__

Basically I don't see how they can afford NOT to expand. I'd say its essential

I agree any serious future revenue growth is not going to keep coming for the current 16 teams and format. 20 teams should be the ultimate goal, with perth, brisbane, NZ and another imo

what the next brisbane team looks like is the question. The arl could do an FFA and pararchute in a new club like the wanderers into west or south brisbane and it would probably be a success. But there is so much history in the city with valleys, redcliffe etc that i think it would be shame to not give a nod to old clubs binvolving them somehow.

Maybe have 2 new brisbane sides eventually- say north brisbane dolphins (norths and redcliffe) and ipswich -logan jets. then leave the broncos with wynnum and easts to create a good balance

 

[byrner]

byrner, the reason i mentioned liverpool/macarthur is because western suburbs junior district goes from liverpool to campbelltown

I know that. I grew up playing in the wests comp.
I still stand by my opinion thats Wests Tigers do not have the Liverpool Macarthur areas wrapped up in terms of fans.
They don't represent the area at all.

The bulldogs would probably have just as many fans in the areas, then Parra would be close.

 

[Perth Red]

Only way to counterbalance the player dilution issue is to ensure expansion happens at all levels. Better funded Jnr and elite systems and more development officers in every state and in Fiji, Samoa etc. give some of the ARL money to nzrl for development to increase the NZ pool. Better scouting and trial systems in PNG and the PI's. Concessions for signing from union etc. There is no need to worry about playing depth IF the NRL takes a whole systems approach to expansion.

 

[byrner]

There is actually a heap of depth out there. Not all players can be rep quality. A geap of guys drop out because they dont get a chance not that there not good enough.

 

[Spanner in the works]

I'm sure out of a population of 24-odd million, we can find 1000 players to create 18 first grade and NYC squads, let alone the populations sod NZ and the Pacific islands.