Does this mean it is dead?

[deluded pom?]

David Niu and the rest have not let anyone down - they have over achieved.

I agree Mr K but David Niu's insularity and reluctance to respond to any general outside communication is not helping the AMNRL. It's impossible to e-mail Mr Niu or any of his AMNRL colleagues via the addresses listed on either the AMNRL official 'site or the Aston DSC Bulls 'site as all addresses are not recognised. I'm led to believe that Mr Niu's evasivenes is one of the reasons why the Tomahawks won't be playing the Jamaicans this year. The question has to be asked "Has David Niu taken the AMNRL as far as he can?" I am not intending to knock Mr Niu's contribution to rugby league because without him there simply wouldn't be any organised rugby league in the USA. I'm merely asking whether he's gone as far as he possibly can and maybe now needs to either step aside (assuming there's someone able and willing to take over) or be prepared to accept some help in the running of AMNRL. It would also remove any conflict of interest issues that might occur regarding the Bulls/AMNRL.

 

[winnyason]

mate you have no idea i have played the game for 20 years in oz, and am looking to become a develop officer, but arogant people such as your self will do nothing for the game over there you are a fool.

 

[coach]

Spike reaches 100 million people - not arrogance - fact

But it doesn't mean they will all be watching.

Don't get me wrong its great that the playoffs are being shown in the US. I hope that millions watch it.

 

[RugbyHighlights]

How many blasphemous things can I say in one post? Let's find out.

David Niu is not above criticism because he worked hard. Shall we stop criticizing Gary Betteman of the NHL? He works hard you know... (+1)

A website that is not updated is not the way to attract investors for this year, next year, or any year. (+1)

Yes, it's nice to have the NRL playoffs on tape-delay on SpikeTV. Another good channel would be Versus. I agree it would be nice if they picked up SuperLeague for a year. I'd rather postpone it to at least 2011 to give Americans a chance to really see the game first. (+1)

I saw the AMNRL finals highlights. Folks, if anyone thinks poorly-lit fields and blue lines you can barely see is going to sell in a pro league, or even a semipro one, you're kidding yourselves. (+1)

I would suggest if they are looking for investors to partner with the United Football League, play the UFL venues in the spring and let the UFL play in the fall. Borrow or rent their new display boards for advertising.

Americans will not accept a sport where lines for league will overlap gridiron lines. Why do you think soccer fans want their own venues? There has been talk from some to bring league from 13 to 11 a side, why not let this league run it and just use the gridiron line dimensions? It would make it much easier to get this game in high schools and colleges. They are not going to widen their fields to accomodate league. Oh, maybe you can have some cow pasture nearby for a club-level team, but nobody will support it.(+3)

Folks, diehards will tolerate just about anything. People who never heard of this sport will not. And just how many diehards are there in America? Yes, starting a pro league is extremely hard, but don't use "the economy" as an excuse. Niu is shorthanded. Ray Charles can see this and he's blind AND dead. Niu needs more sports management professionals involved to develop and implement a real plan. Loving a sport and running a semipro comp isn't enough. (+1)

Sometimes the critics ARE right. When that happens, FIX the problem, don't just ignore it.


I counted 8 blasphemous things I said so far...

Exactly, but as League fans we're used to accepting mediocrity.

One of my biggest complaints of David Niu is that in short, he's a merkin. There's no point beating around the bush. The mans a f**king idiot.

How long would it have taken him to post a short message on the NRLUS website explaining that there's been some delays?

It's ignorance. There's nothing professional about how the man conducts himself.

 

[MR KNIGHT]

So Winnymason,

You know more than me becuase you played 20 years. By that rationale David Niu knows more than you because he played first grade. Something I don't think anyone on this forum has done.

I have done plenty of grass roots over here in the States and that is where I have come across people like David Niu, Rob balachandran, Jeff Preston, Bill Hansbury, Fred Bakkus who have toiled all for the love of it.

rugby whatever your handle is
I don't believe no one should be critisised. I just think this has been way over the top.
David Niu doesn't get paid for this. Do you want to quit your job and see if you can do better. See how you go getting the NRL on Spike.

Do you think he is doing it for his own benefit. Do you see him big noting himself on the TVs or the cameras.

Lets be clear about this - The people who have started teams over here have done it because of David Niu's hard work
- If the pro league comes about, anyone who makes money on it will be on the back of David Nius efforts.

If not for David Niu's hard work and contacts there would be no talk of a pro league. I find it very ironic that you would have nothing to complain about if not for him!

 

[roopy]

Exactly, but as League fans we're used to accepting mediocrity.

One of my biggest complaints of David Niu is that in short, he's a merkin. There's no point beating around the bush. The mans a f**king idiot.

How long would it have taken him to post a short message on the NRLUS website explaining that there's been some delays?

It's ignorance. There's nothing professional about how the man conducts himself.

I'm as frustrated as anyone that the AMNRL will never inform people if anything remotely negative happens, but those comments are way over the top. It's just football - it's not the CIA not telling us about torture or something.

 

[Play some footy]

So Winnymason,

You know more than me becuase you played 20 years. By that rationale David Niu knows more than you because he played first grade. Something I don't think anyone on this forum has done.

I have done plenty of grass roots over here in the States and that is where I have come across people like David Niu, Rob balachandran, Jeff Preston, Bill Hansbury, Fred Bakkus who have toiled all for the love of it.

rugby whatever your handle is
I don't believe no one should be critisised. I just think this has been way over the top.
David Niu doesn't get paid for this. Do you want to quit your job and see if you can do better. See how you go getting the NRL on Spike.

Do you think he is doing it for his own benefit. Do you see him big noting himself on the TVs or the cameras.

Lets be clear about this - The people who have started teams over here have done it because of David Niu's hard work
- If the pro league comes about, anyone who makes money on it will be on the back of David Nius efforts.

If not for David Niu's hard work and contacts there would be no talk of a pro league. I find it very ironic that you would have nothing to complain about if not for him!

you are the reincarnation of tomahawk.

 

[RhinoCats]

Mr Knight is missing the point, there is not a question of Niu's passion or dedication but a question of his ability to handle a venture of this magnitude. Playing 1st grade rugby doesn't make you a good business man. Being an American who has played in this comp I dont see this comp happening for at least another 5-10 years, I mean Union has just started to get USA games on espn and it has some structure here, the AMNRL has none. Union is struggling to get athletes of any caliber and is forced to find eligible players for other coutries to even remotely compete on the international stage, League will not provide a avenue for the hallowed NFL reject to explode. The hurdles are great in size and number, but if we take them one at a time then there is hope.

 

[SignGuyDino]

Exactly. I was at the U.S./Canada game on the 4th of July in Charleston. Hot as hell, too. At least the ladies in bikinis made me forget the heat.

Anyway, the game was very well organized, well, the game operations were. Game itself had no tries and frankly was boring except it was Team USA. (USA got massacred in the rematch in Canada, that match was a game operations nightmare and a disgrace to rugby and any other sport.)

They got on live tv on espn, in high definition no less. Granted, there was bad luck, they pre-empted the game with a special report on the murder of Steve McNair. Spike's coverage last Friday was great, even if it was tape delay, even if some of the commentary was obviously fake, the graphics and HD picture was awesome, wished it was a better game but you can't just make that happen.


Union is significantly ahead of League in the U.S. But they are not so far ahead League might as well give up. USA Today had an article about how Union players playing for Team USA get no money (except a per diem) and don't even get insurance. (This sounds like before the schism, for crying out loud!) The first legitimate professional competition in the U.S. from either code will kill the other code instantly.


According to the National Foundation of State High School Associations (nfhs.org), rugby is only recognized as a varsity high school sport in two states, California and Vermont, with only 779 boys and girls playing. Neither code is doing the job in getting the game to the kids. I have been thinking of writing a rulebook for a 11-on-11 version of league that can be played on gridiron lines to make it more palatable. But that won't work without a frame of reference for coaches and school boards. Kind of like describing a snowflake to someone who never saw one. These folks don't know rugby league from tic-tac-toe.


It's not top-bottom or bottom-up approach you need, you have to attack at all fronts. You need a year of League on Spike or another channel to teach the game to Americans, and dedicated people pushing the game at all levels. We need updated websites and places to buy rugby league balls and other equipment, as well as NRL and SuperLeague jerseys, in the States.


Niu can love the game all he wants but loving a sport is not enough. He needs to publicly admit on his websites no pro league next year, and we need to admit we can do more to help.

 

[EVER HOPEFUL]

How can David Niu and his cohorts seriously consider that they would EVER get a professional league up and running within 1 calender year. DREAMERS! .. Now there is nothing wrong with having a vision / goal / dream, but why set yourself up to fail miserably and unnecessarily as he has done? Its like a teenager on his first date - all over too quickly! Why did he not wait until he had all his ducks in a row?

Yes David played in the Winfield Cup but how long ago was that? Does being an okay player make you a good businessman or good administrator? (Apparently not) Its clear to see that he is out of his depth. The AMNRL is a POORLY RUN competition. Would he not be better served getting this house in order first?? There were a number of examples of cronyism in the league this year and in seasons past. In deciding to give his good mate Rob Balachandran & the NY Knights the GF he showed what poor business acumen he has. You can blame the rain warnings, no beer sales, economic hardship etc but GOOD BUSINESS sense tells you that 3000 PAYING FANS is a much better deal than 200.

At a Grand Final - there was NO PROPERLY QUALIFIED linesmen, NO correct field markings, and in any other properly run competition the NY KNIGHTS would have been disqualified for fielding 14 players NOT ONCE but TWICE and to add insult to injury they scored with 14 on the field!

These are just some of the poor REGULAR happenings in the AMNRL. THIS IS THE COMPETITION THAT NEEDS FIXING BEFORE HE TAKES ON HIS DREAM OF A PROFESSIONAL SUPER-LEAGUE. Otherwise it will be just like a teenagers first sexual experience... ALL OVER BEFOR IT BEGINS!

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Does the AMNRL have a democratically elected board? Who decides who runs what?

 

[RhinoCats]

Does the AMNRL have a democratically elected board? Who decides who runs what?

No, and therein lies the problem. The men at the round table now were there when the seeds were planted so to say. The truth of the matter is the AMNRL is no where near the standard it is believed to be in, ask any player who comes over to play and they will tell you the same. It is like a cone fo silence over here so as not to let the rest of the League world know that sometime we play on fields that look like the Rockies or the goalposts are made of plastic with rope as a crossbar. I believe that once these issues are address and fixed, which I will add they are trying to do now, then we will be ready to play a Rugby Super League (the national domestic Rugby comp) here and springboard into bigger things from that.

 

[EVER HOPEFUL]

There is no democratically elected board. There is NO BOARD. Its a case of David Niu saying its my way or the highway! He has his "executive" which is self appointed - Rob Balachandran, Jeff Preston, Bill Hansbury. Daid Niu appears afraid o hold elections in case he is voted out. However.. if he held elections I dont think he would be voted out. The other clubs just want to have representation, a voice on the committee. But David Niu appears to be running a dictatorship.

Mr KNIGHT would have you believe that David Niu is some sort of rugby league god and should be there because he started the "game in America" .. what Mr KNIGHT appears to forget is that the game is bigger than 1 individual. At some stage in life we all reach our use by date..FACE IT, ACCEPT IT, GET OVER IT..

Mr KNIGHT should take a step back and re-read all of his posts - he is the sole defender.. and good on him. You should stick by your mates. But does he seriously think that this league is well run? Does he seriously believe that we should all bow down to the messiah? WAKE UP MR KNIGHT!!!!

 

[miguel de cervantes]

If this is the case then steps must be taken to set up a board of sorts once the competition reaches a decent level. Even Sunday book clubs have democratically elected boards, and if the AMNRL doesn't get its act together then any progress will stagnate.

Would it be possible to get together the leaders of the clubs to at least open a dialogue with Nui and those at the top?

 

[roopy]

Bad time to play with the structure now.

 

[MR KNIGHT]

The clubs do have represntation and there is an annual meeting of the clubs. and David Niu.

I have never said to bow down to David Niu as the messiah. All I have said is that alot of this criticism is way over the top. I agree that just because you played NRL does not make you a good buisness person. I just said that because winnymason bought out his 20 years of experience as a " I know better" argument - I said that that is as relevant as me saying David Niu knows more than me because he played NRL. I was making that point.

You cannot just say to the TV networks who wre interested in RL- "Oh, let us wait five or ten years until we have a better strucure" The had the oppurtunty there and then and had to go for it. Once again - it was never said that the AMNRL competion that will be professional. It would be a whole new comp with AMNRL continuing on. The networks didn't haven't looked at the AMNRL and said "we want that". It would be a whole new set up with the AMNRL continuing at the grassroots.

From what I have gathered there is still a possibilty that it still may go ahead, so why would you make an anouncement that it is not. If it ends up being post poned or delayed then I am sure they will make that statement.

I don't know about any code of silence about the standard.. Maybe with other clubs, but the Knights have always let players know that are coming over what the standard and conditions are. It is a fledgling competition and will continue to be no matter what happens with the pro comp. I don't know of any ne who has pretended to make this a bigger comp than what it is. Maybe the people who have never played that standard have done that to make themselves feel good.

At the grand Final there was an official referee and two official touch judges. One of the touch judges was a last monute withdrawl so they got an ex player to do it (an ex tomahawk I beleive) so he must know the rules. The 14 players on the field was an honest mistake by the Knights and had no bearing at all on the game (it was late in the game when the match was well and truly done. I am sure the Axemen would agree. I know a couple of things - the Knights players were not happy about the mistake because they didn't want it to detract from a season where they were the best team all year and the best in the Grand Final. 99% of sane people who watch the AMNRL will admit that. I know David Niu was not happy with the mistake and a good thing is that will be more tightly controlled next year)

I am not the only defender of David Niu - there is a silent majority out there amonst the AMNRL who do not post on forums (and I suspect alot of these people are the same person!)

We are not an opressed people over here!

 

[EVER HOPEFUL]

Thats interesting.. Can you qualify exactly how do the clubs have representation?? A conference call once a year is hardly representation. An occasional gathering in NY is hardly representation. Those afore mentioned persons who "help make decisions" are not elected by the other clubs. To be honest - perhaps its not David Nius fault, maybe those in the so called "executive" should stand up and be counted and say.. hey - why dont we share the work load amongst the clubs?? Lets appoint others to a committee, lets have a secretary, lets have a financial controller etc..

I firmly believe in credit where credit is due.. Yes David Niu helped kick start the AMNRL, well done! But under his control it has become stagnant. (It happens - get over it) A professional league is a great idea, but why not get all your ducks in a line with the current competition first and gain some degree of credibility. Because at the moment there is ZERO credibility.

REMEMBER MR KNIGHT- without fans, there is no point. The fans bring you revenue, the fans speak volumes about their favorite players, clubs etc. The fans are the ones who drive the stats re Television Networks deciding on wether or not it is a worthwhile venture to invest in. So by David laying all his cards out in the open by declaring a professional league will be up and running in 1 year and then FAILING to keep the FANS informed of developments he is hurting not only his credibility, but the existing clubs credibility and the game itself. You cant treat the fans like mushrooms (kept in the dark & fed bullsh*t). Any potential investor who logged on to the NRLUS website would walk away due to the lack of information (nothing new between May and August) NOT GOOD business sense. You say David Niu is doing it all? That sounds like an autocrat to me!

And yes MR KNIGHT.. the FANS USE FORUMS, so word spreads very very quickly, not all rugby league fans are former players. Like it or not, some are armchair buffs, but they still support the game and their money to get thru the gate to watch is just as important as the former players, the corporates, and the investors.

As for the KNIGHTS being the best team all year? I think the JAX fans may have something to say about that. BUT.. again credit where credit is due. Well done to the Knights players. One thing you're right about MR KNIGHT, it is not the players fault, blame should be laid either with the of the coach or Rob Balachandran for allowing 14 players on the field NOT ONCE but TWICE!

 

[MR KNIGHT]

Ever Hopeful,

It seems you are pretty involved in stuff. Grow some balls, be a man and face Davd Niu with your little gripes instead of bithhing on an internet forum like a little cry baby. As you would say - get over it.

With the 14 players - It made no difference to the result of the game - anyone who as there will tell you that. Or you can watch the video - the Knights dominated the Axemen from start to finish - get over it!I believe Rob Balachandran was commenting on the game, so it would probably be the touch judges fault, but I believe hey will have steps in place next year so that mistake will not happen again.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Upon reflexion, I think that if any serious backers were going to throw serious money at the NRLUS they would get some experts in at the top and David Niu would no doubt be asked to step down a rung - no disrepect to David.

 

[roopy]

Upon reflexion, I think that if any serious backers were going to throw serious money at the NRLUS they would get some experts in at the top and David Niu would no doubt be asked to step down a rung - no disrepect to David.

type Robert Balachandran into google and see if there is anyone in the world of rugby league who can match his business credentials - i'd say there isn't.

Robert Balachandran actually prefers a game of rugby to a jog along the river. So the former member of Gov. George Pataki's staff was less than enthusiastic in 1997 when he found a file on his desk in Albany labeled "Hudson River Park." His first reaction was to toss the folder onto a colleague's desk.
Despite his initial reluctance, when Mr. Balachandran was directed to take on the effort, he threw himself into creating the $400 million park that has changed the face of Manhattan's West Side. He helped draft the legislation, raised money and hired staff. He even haggled with demanding Greenwich Village residents over the design of the park railings.
The contacts and diplomatic abilities he accrued along the way serve him well in his new job as an investment banker at Bear Stearns, where he helps government agencies like the state tollway authority raise hundreds of millions.
"Robert has people skills that a lot of folks have never heard of," says Charles Dorkey, his boss on the river park project.
Mr. Balachandran has been moving swiftly since he was a student at SUNY-Albany selling Rainbow vacuum cleaners door-to-door. He was named partner at an Albany lobbying firm at age 24 and turned that job into one with the Pataki administration.
He has moved quickly through the worlds of politics, law and finance, but through it all, Mr. Balachandran has kept one thing constant: impeccably shined shoes. "Those are the first things people look at when they walk into the elevator," he says.
– Aaron Elstein

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/40under40/profiles/2006/44