General weights discussion thread

[Pete Cash]

Thanks for the feedback man. So are you suggesting that if I don't continue to add weight to my squats then it's an issue with food/recovery? Doesn't everyone get to stage with squats where they can't progress weight any further?

Regarding your suggestions for rep range, that's pretty much what I am doing now. The stronglifts compound exercises (e.g. squats, deadlifts, bench, etc) I'm only doing 5 reps and heavy. Everything else I'm doing 4 sets generally aiming at reps of 12,10, 8 and 6. I do like your idea of throwing in some higher rep stuff just to change things up.

I agree with your last point, I think everyone needs to adapt a program that suits them best provided it's within the best practice principles.

With a mesocycle, can you suggest something along the lines of what I am doing but for a 3 day a week program?

Also, do you guys generally do deltoid raises?

Well yeah basically everyone is going to reach a point where they cant lift any more. Most people realistically reach it when they get to the point where it comes down to being a big fat bikie looking guy or not putting more weight onto the squat. That said eating a lot of food is hugely important in all aspects of weight training. Even for bigger muscles. Muscles need recovery and food and rest are the two easiest methods of doing it (notice I didnt say best which are PEDs. Don't use PEDs. Drugs are bad apaz). One of the most important lifts is the curl your fork into your mouth lift. What most guys who focus on BB do I believe is just eat heaps over say a 2 to 3 months cycle and eat less for 2-3 months to cut the fat.

A mesocycle is a medium term plan towards a fitness goal. Normally over 4-6 weeks in most sports but I find 8-9 weeks a better number in weight training. I will just rip off a programme from another forum that I think is a good mixture of power training and hypertrophy that can be done three times a week.

Power Builder Routine ? 3x A Week

Week 1/Workout 1:

Squat: 2 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or DB/BB Straight Back Straight Leg Deadlifts: 3 x 10
Bent Over Row: 4 x 6
EZ Bar Curl: 3 x 8
Calf Raises: 1 x 15 ? These are done DC style so you explode up and slowly go back down holding the bottom stretch for 15-20 seconds each rep.

Week 1/Workout 2:

Bench Press: 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Press: 4 x 8
Military: 3 x 8
DB Skull Crushers or Tate Presses - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GQaG_hpcz0 3 x 10
Kneeling Cable Crunches or Other Weighted Ab Exercise 3 x 10

Week 1/Workout 3:

Deadlift: 3 x 5
Leg Press: 2 x 10
Pull-Up or Lat Pull-Down: 4 x 6 (If doing pull-up add weight to just get 6)
Alt Dumbbell Curl: 3 x 8
Calf Raises 1 x 15 - These are done DC style so you explode up and slowly go back down holding the bottom stretch for 15-20 seconds each rep.


Week 2/Workout 1:

Incline Bench: 3 x 5
Dumbbell Bench: 4 x 8
Standing Alternate Dumbbell Shoulder Press: 3 x 8 Each Arm
Tricep Pushdowns: 3 x 10
Sprinters Ab Circuit ? 2-3 Rounds - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izDf0MCR2DU

Week 2/Workout 2:
Repeat Week 1 Workout 1

Week 2/Workout 3:
Repeat Week 1 Workout 2

Week 3/Workout 1
Repeat week 1 Workout 3

Week 3/Workout 2
Repeat week 2 workout 1

Week 3/ Workout 3
Repeat Week 1 workout 1

etc

Here is another one

Program 4:
4 Day Split
Day 1 (Monday):
Chest/Biceps/Abs-
DB Flat Bench - 1 set of 4-6 reps (perform 3-4 sets of warm ups before getting into your heavy set)

Hammer Strength Incline (or Barbell Incline Press if you have a spotter, or Smith Incline Press with no spotter) - 1 REST PAUSE SET (refer to bottom of page what rest-pause is) equaling 12-20 reps.

Flat Bench Press - 1 set of 15-20 reps

Cable Flies (or Pec Deck Machine) - 2 sets of 12-15 reps

Incline DB Curls (or Alternate DB Curls) - 1 set of 6-8 reps

Barbell Curls or Curl Machine - 1 REST PAUSE SET of 12-18

Body Drag Curls - 1 set of 15-20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItJcwyS1ZE (never let the bar come off your torso)

Weighted Cable Crunches (or Med Ball Crunches) - 3 sets of 10-12

Day 2 (Tuesday):
Legs

Squats - 1 set of 4-6 (Again warm up as long as needed before hitting this one heavy work set)

Leg Press - 1 REST PAUSE SET of 15-20

Leg Extensions - 1 set of 15-20

Straight Leg Deadlifts - 2 sets of 10-12

Leg Curls - 2 sets of 10-12

Calf Raises - 1 set of 20 (when performing calf raises, go down into the deepest stretch you can hold then explode up, slowly lower it to the deepest stretch, count to 20 and repeat.)

Day 3 (Wednesday):
Cardio or Off

Your choice

Day 4 (Thursday):
Shoulders/Triceps

DB Seated Shoulder Press - 1 set of 4-6 (as many warm up sets as needed before this work set)

BB Seated Military Press - 1 REST PAUSE SET of 10-14

DB Lateral Raises - 1 set of 15-20

Reverse Grip Bench - 1 set of 6-8 (Reverse Grip Bench - you place the bar further down on your chest and there is no need to go down and touch your chest since we are concentrating on hitting our triceps the most)

Close Grip Bench - 1 REST PAUSE set of 14-18

Overhead Rope Pull From Low Pulley - 1 set of 15-20 (Rope Extension)

Dips - 2 Sets of Max Amount


Day 5 (Friday):
Back/Abs

Deadlifts - 1 set of 4-6 (warm-up first)

Hammer Grip Lat Pulldowns - 1 REST PAUSE set of 10-16

Wide Grip Seated Row - 1 REST PAUSE set of 10-16

Pullups (whatever grip you can get the most with) - 1 set 15-20 (or 3 sets of get as many as you can)

Face Pulls - 2 sets of 12-15 (Face Pulls)

Sprinters Ab Circuit - Ab Circuit Do each exercise 15-20 times, rest 45 seconds, repeat 3x total



That is it for the 4 day split.

If you want to do the 3 day split, then just take off the shoulder/triceps day and add shoulders to chest day (perform it after chest, before biceps) and add triceps to your back day.

REST PAUSE SET A rest pause set is when you do as many reps you can of the weight until failure, rack the weight, take 15 deep long breaths, unrack the weight , do as many as you can, rack the weight, take 15 deep long breaths, unrack the weight, do as many as you can, rack the weight and be done.

I tend to keep all my rest times right around minute on all the exercises except for my 1x4-6 or 6-8 exercises as I want more time to be able to push as much weight as I can.

And yeah the first number is sets the second one is reps in my first post.

 

[Cliffhanger]

People give things different names, I was referring to chinese pushups where your hands are about five hand lengths from your feet bum in the air hands close together, and you just go down so your head is on the ground, you move your feet on higher surfaces the better you get at them. Doing them and handstand pushups against a wall is how you work your way up to doing handstand pushups. I can't find any videos. Guess they're called something else.

Dive Bombers are Indian Pushups. I would do it with feet closer together and rolling toes forward, so you go from being on your toes to the back of your feet when your back is arched. I do them in sets of 10. They great.

 

[abpanther]

Well yeah basically everyone is going to reach a point where they cant lift any more. Most people realistically reach it when they get to the point where it comes down to being a big fat bikie looking guy or not putting more weight onto the squat. That said eating a lot of food is hugely important in all aspects of weight training. Even for bigger muscles. Muscles need recovery and food and rest are the two easiest methods of doing it (notice I didnt say best which are PEDs. Don't use PEDs. Drugs are bad apaz). One of the most important lifts is the curl your fork into your mouth lift. What most guys who focus on BB do I believe is just eat heaps over say a 2 to 3 months cycle and eat less for 2-3 months to cut the fat.

A mesocycle is a medium term plan towards a fitness goal. Normally over 4-6 weeks in most sports but I find 8-9 weeks a better number in weight training. I will just rip off a programme from another forum that I think is a good mixture of power training and hypertrophy that can be done three times a week.





Here is another one




And yeah the first number is sets the second one is reps in my first post.

I think you may be onto something in that I may not be eating quite right.

When I started training in January I was at 100kg and one of my goals was to drop down to 90kg. As a result (and as I have done in the past to lose weight) I started cutting out carbs and not concerning myself with whatever else I ate (e.g. cheese, meat, etc), not excessively but significantly. For example no desserts/chocolate/lollies, no soft drinks, no bread, small portions of carbs, etc. I still eat fruit though.

As I generally do the more I got into the training the more regimented I became with the eating. I'm now at the point where I don't eat breakfast cereal anymore, I have pretty much carb free food during the day on weekdays, etc. I tend to loosen up a bit on weekends.

At the moment my routine on weekdays is that for the 3 days I train, I have a banana at 6am before I train and then an apple after training, I have a snack at 10am (generally ham/turkey + cheese) and lunch at 1pm (can of tuna, cucumber/tomato + cheese), throughout the day I snack on fruit and a small container of peanuts. For dinner I'm at the mercy of what my wife cooks which generally contains pasta/potato but my portions are pretty small and I always eat a pretty big salad with it. The 2 days I don't train I eat the same except I have a proper breakfast (bacon, eggs, mushrooms, one piece of toast) and no 10am snack.

Like I said weekends are more open, but I have the same breakfast and continue to control portions.

Based on that do you think I am no eating right? I do have a protein shake (40g) after every work out and one the day after a workout.

I am now down to 90kg, don't wanna lose any more weight.

Regarding the 2 workouts you posted, I don't like the first one as it seems like not enough exercises. It is one thing about me that I really want to have a routine where I feel like I am covering all the muscle groups adequately.

I do like the second one in terms of the exercises and also like the REST PAUSE idea, i just wonder about only doing 1 set for an exercise? Particular with something like calf raises where I have continually read that for calves you need to do a shit load of reps to have an impact. I suppose like you said that is where you cater your program to what you want.

I think the second one does seem like a good place to start, do you expect to progress in weight for the 8-9 weeks during a mesocycle for each exercise?

Also, with the heavy stuff, I always wonder what the ideal warm up set up is between getting yourself warmed up for your big set and not lifting too much prior to impact your ability to do your final set. For example, if you heavy squat weight is 100kg, what warm ups would you recommend? Say 40kg, 60kg and 80kg?

 

[abpanther]

People give things different names, I was referring to chinese pushups where your hands are about five hand lengths from your feet bum in the air hands close together, and you just go down so your head is on the ground, you move your feet on higher surfaces the better you get at them. Doing them and handstand pushups against a wall is how you work your way up to doing handstand pushups. I can't find any videos. Guess they're called something else.

Dive Bombers are Indian Pushups. I would do it with feet closer together and rolling toes forward, so you go from being on your toes to the back of your feet when your back is arched. I do them in sets of 10. They great.

Thanks for that, I'll have to do more research and find some videos

 

[abpanther]

Also you need to add in some core stuff, the following orkouts are some of the best, hanging leg raisers, hanging iron cross, bicycle crunch (easy and effective), V Snaps, core rows (these do your back as well), plank, hyper extensions.

Hey can you tell me what hanging iron cross is? Tried to look it up but couldn't find it

Also, is this what you refer to as core rows? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI7LyS5Iwv4&feature=fvwrel

 

[CJG 182]

What's good for recovery?

I've just started doing weights again for the first time in 4 years.
Had 3 elbow ops, 2 of them recos so I haven't been able to lift for ages.

Just started a full body program and it's obviously difficult given the 4 years off.
Very sore after the first couple sessions, what will help with the muscle recovery?

 

[Snoochies]

What's good for recovery?

I've just started doing weights again for the first time in 4 years.
Had 3 elbow ops, 2 of them recos so I haven't been able to lift for ages.

Just started a full body program and it's obviously difficult given the 4 years off.
Very sore after the first couple sessions, what will help with the muscle recovery?

I'm not well versed in nutrition but whey protein seems to be the most popular I would imagine. I usually take 40g after a workout but may be different for each individual I guess.

 

[Snoochies]

Advice needed.

As I have mentioned I am attempting ToughMudder in a few weeks and the whole year I have been training for this event. Dropped 11kg's so far and am as fit as I have ever been.

In a nutshell, the first 4 months of the year I was doing stronglifts and since then have progressed onto more cardio and high rep body exercises. Between both workouts I have learnt alot and really enjoy some aspects that I have learnt plus I have finally figured out my diet.

After TM I want to combine the weight training again along with the cardio and high rep stuff. Would a program like this be sufficient to add muscle and also lose some more fat?

Monday - Stronglifts
Tuesday - 6 X 1000m run (2 min rest)
Wednesday - Stronglifts
Thursday - Sprints
Friday - Full bodyweight routine. (I do Bas Rutten all round workout. It's a 30 minute no rest workout comprising pushups, sit ups, jumping squats, lunges, hill climbers, shadow boxing etc. Google it)
Saturday - 10k run.

The above would be a combination of many aspects I have learnt throughout the year.

Too much or a good mix?

 

[Pete Cash]

What's good for recovery?

I've just started doing weights again for the first time in 4 years.
Had 3 elbow ops, 2 of them recos so I haven't been able to lift for ages.

Just started a full body program and it's obviously difficult given the 4 years off.
Very sore after the first couple sessions, what will help with the muscle recovery?

Food ans sleep. Your body will get used to it but makes sure you get a good 8 hours sleep and eat plenty of food.

 

[Cliffhanger]

Advice needed.

As I have mentioned I am attempting ToughMudder in a few weeks and the whole year I have been training for this event. Dropped 11kg's so far and am as fit as I have ever been.

In a nutshell, the first 4 months of the year I was doing stronglifts and since then have progressed onto more cardio and high rep body exercises. Between both workouts I have learnt alot and really enjoy some aspects that I have learnt plus I have finally figured out my diet.

After TM I want to combine the weight training again along with the cardio and high rep stuff. Would a program like this be sufficient to add muscle and also lose some more fat?

Monday - Stronglifts
Tuesday - 6 X 1000m run (2 min rest)
Wednesday - Stronglifts
Thursday - Sprints
Friday - Full bodyweight routine. (I do Bas Rutten all round workout. It's a 30 minute no rest workout comprising pushups, sit ups, jumping squats, lunges, hill climbers, shadow boxing etc. Google it)
Saturday - 10k run.

The above would be a combination of many aspects I have learnt throughout the year.

Too much or a good mix?

Mate resistance training isn't black and white we are all different. See how you feel and whether you're still making gains. I would omit the 10k runLong distance running will start to hamper your strength gains.

 

[Pete Cash]

He's going to get to a point where he needs to eat at a surplus.

 

[Snoochies]

Mate resistance training isn't black and white we are all different. See how you feel and whether you're still making gains. I would omit the 10k runLong distance running will start to hamper your strength gains.

Cheers. I've never really added any cardio whilst doing weights so not sure how to balance it. Mind you, would be happy to drop the 10kg run.

Cheers

 

[shaggs]

What's good for recovery?

I've just started doing weights again for the first time in 4 years.
Had 3 elbow ops, 2 of them recos so I haven't been able to lift for ages.

Just started a full body program and it's obviously difficult given the 4 years off.
Very sore after the first couple sessions, what will help with the muscle recovery?

5 grams of glutamine in water or mixed with your whey will help with muscle repair. I am a big fan of it. It will also aid your digestive health. It is great product, that is relatively cheap and actually does what it says.

Just get L-glutamine from your local supp shop. Pretty much all brands are good.

 

[RHCP]

What's good for recovery?

I've just started doing weights again for the first time in 4 years.
Had 3 elbow ops, 2 of them recos so I haven't been able to lift for ages.

Just started a full body program and it's obviously difficult given the 4 years off.
Very sore after the first couple sessions, what will help with the muscle recovery?

Time generally dulls DOMS.

Good suggestions above, I'd add foam rolling your muscles after your workout. I always feel much better the next day when I do it.

 

[abpanther]

Is it ok to do Clean and Jerk without proper training?

I wanna start doing it, some people tell me it's ok, others say you shouldn't do it without proper training.

Does look that hard really, no harding than teaching yourself how to squat and deadlift

 

[Pete Cash]

The reason why its recommended is that its a bit of a tricky one to get right. You probably arent going to injure yourself so long as you are sensible. I throw the odd one in every now and again but I make sure I go nice and light.

Obv if you are intending on doing them for a long period of time you will build up weight but its something that needs to be done light at first.

 

[Cliffhanger]

I've been being coached in olympic liftingfor nearly a month, and most of my snatch and clean and jerk training is done with a stick, or an empty bar. When I do get to add weight it's just bumpers to get the bar in the right set position. I have even learnt to teach it in my degree and I don't go higher than 25kg and that's including the bar.

It's not about the potential for injury, it's about the fact that you want to do proper technique and the longer you do it with improper technique the harder it will be to teach you the right way and doing it wrong with light weights isn't really going to be particularly beneficial.

 

[abpanther]

So when will you start running training classes for me Cliffy

 

[Cliffhanger]

I would gladly teach you the technique, but I will be under the pump until around mid November.

My coaches run classes though. I train at Burwood, my coaches run 12 week Olympic lifting training courses. My male coach is national champion in his weight division and because he grew up in Russia the training you get from him, you won't get any where else in Australia.
It's like 240 a month for up to three training sessions a week (they're supposed to go for 90 minutes but will usually go for about 150 minutes). It's pretty good value considering what you get, though they generally want people who are serious and want to get into competitions and I am guessing you just want to do it to hit some new PBs, improve power, fire up your fast twitch fibres etc. (TBH I would rather not compete, I don't like comparing myself to other people or the extrinsic recognition or reward element at least that's a long way off. )

Alternatively you can wait until November and I will teach for free and assess your technique for squats etc,. I can do the 1rm testing for you too, but they're a massive pain in the arse to do and because you have to slowly load up frustrating.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Is it ok to do Clean and Jerk without proper training?

I wanna start doing it, some people tell me it's ok, others say you shouldn't do it without proper training.

Does look that hard really, no harding than teaching yourself how to squat and deadlift

You are kidding yourself

Squats and deadlifts are single facet moves. Clean and jerk or even snatchs are much more complicated, multi facet moves that require the correct technique and more importantly the correct timing

Get someone to train you mate