Should the 2013 WC be in America?

[yankeeboy]

To get around that, market it as an International brand of football, not as rugby. Stress the parallels to American football in every way possible: make sure every game is played on a uniformly marked field with solid, numbered lines like Americans are used to, replace rugby terminology with American terms like touchdown, report game stats in American football style, etc. The key to breaking through in the US is getting American football fans interested in the game.

We don't need to market it football because Americans, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, are not that stupid and understand what football is. They will either think that a) "foreigners don't play good football so I'm not going to watch it" or b) "this isn't football, why'd I waste my money."

But if we held the cup and marketed it as the best rugby players in the world coming to the states, and showed games on television in the states in the runup to the cup, we could get a great turnout. It isn't going to rival any homegrown sports, but I do believe that there would be 20k+ at every single game. Britain and Australia simply lack the population to support numbers like that--even though it would be a minute percentage of the American population, even miniscule support would blow what Oz and the UK get out of the water.

 

[Big Picture]

We don't need to market it football because Americans, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks, are not that stupid and understand what football is. They will either think that a) "foreigners don't play good football so I'm not going to watch it" or b) "this isn't football, why'd I waste my money."

If you mean that football is a ball-control game where the teams' objective is keep possession of the football and march down the field to score touchdowns, I agree completely. If you think about it I'm sure you'll agree that RL is based on exactly the same concepts and is thus an International brand of football in our sense of the word. Though the rules governing possession and turnovers are different from the football we grew up with, the concepts are exaactly the same. In fact, it was the parallels between the games that got me into RL in the first place.

But if we held the cup and marketed it as the best rugby players in the world coming to the states, and showed games on television in the states in the runup to the cup, we could get a great turnout. It isn't going to rival any homegrown sports, but I do believe that there would be 20k+ at every single game. Britain and Australia simply lack the population to support numbers like that--even though it would be a minute percentage of the American population, even miniscule support would blow what Oz and the UK get out of the water.

Given that (like Canadians) most Americans don't know anything about rugby, that approach might work. However, would they buy into the tiered concept used in last year's World Cup? Would they accept teams comprised primarily of Aussies/Brits with only a heritage connection to those countries and only a few players actually from there? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.

 

[RedVee]

How about marketing it as 'Rugby League' or even 'League' rather than Rugby?

 

[roopy]

How about marketing it as 'Rugby League' or even 'League' rather than Rugby?

For the first few years at least, we really want the Union fans to come to the games.

 

[deluded pom?]

Would they accept teams comprised primarily of Aussies/Brits with only a heritage connection to those countries and only a few players actually from there? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.

With some discreet tv editing i.e. not continually interviewing the Aussies or English heritage players before and after matches, would the American public even realise some teams have this kind of make up? By the time the Americans hosted the WC I'd like to think that the game has done some development work and the heritage player involvement was diminishing.

 

[Poul]

For the World Cup to be held in America, and be successful, I think there needs to be a competitive Tomahawks team with some public profile, and homegrown "stars" ready to take on the world's best. I think 2013 would be far to early, but by the 2021 World Cup the USNRL will have had 12 full seasons, with the likelihood that many of the Tomahawks will have graduated through the ranks of this competition, and the general sporting public will be familiar with their deeds. Also, I feel that it is also possible that prior to 2021, the Tomahawks may have climbed into the top 4, and have reached 4 Nations status, so Australian, British and New Zealand audiences will also be familiar with the players. With this in mind, should the Tomahawks compete with northern hemisphere nations (u.t., Wales, Scotland, France,Russia, Lebanon), or southern hemisphere nations (Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands), for 4 Nations status? I would think northern hemisphere would be the appropriate choice.

 

[Big Picture]

For the first few years at least, we really want the Union fans to come to the games.

What Union fans?? Their crowds are quite small, even last year's Churchill Cup final at Toyota Park in Chicago only drew 9,000 fans -- less than high school games get in American football. No doubt club games don't draw more than a few hundred, just like up here.

 

[deluded pom?]

. With this in mind, should the Tomahawks compete with northern hemisphere nations (u.t., Wales, Scotland, France,Russia, Lebanon), or southern hemisphere nations (Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands), for 4 Nations status? I would think northern hemisphere would be the appropriate choice.

The USA is in the Northern hemisphere. End of.

 

[yankeeboy]

What Union fans?? Their crowds are quite small, even last year's Churchill Cup final at Toyota Park in Chicago only drew 9,000 fans -- less than high school games get in American football. No doubt club games don't draw more than a few hundred, just like up here.

Yes, that's true. Club RU games don't get more than a few hundred, if that, and RL is probably lower.

The only time I've ever played rugby (union as there's no league in Texas) in front of a large crowd was when my high school played at halftime during an Arena Football match. That was an awesome thrill--the crowd seemed to enjoy it as well.

However, you are saying 9,000 like it's a bad thing. That's about on course for the average attendance at the last 2 RLWCs. And this is for an event with low-tier national teams and second-string sides from their nation, not the elite of the sport. AND rugby in either form is much lower profile than in Oz or GB. Those numbers show that for a single event that was mostly promoted just within the USA rugby community, there can be a decent sized crowd.

You have to stop thinking of the crowds in comparison to American sports, because even with 100 years of presence RL will not draw comparable crowds. What they need to do is establish a niche for the sport and they will get better crowds than seen anywhere else in the world for RL, even if it's way low compared to native sports.

If you can get 9,000 to yawnion games between USA and Canada and teams like NZ Maori and England Saxons, you can get 10-20k to a RL game between Oz and NZ and GB.

 

[Big Picture]

Yes, that's true. Club RU games don't get more than a few hundred, if that, and RL is probably lower.

The only time I've ever played rugby (union as there's no league in Texas) in front of a large crowd was when my high school played at halftime during an Arena Football match. That was an awesome thrill--the crowd seemed to enjoy it as well.

However, you are saying 9,000 like it's a bad thing. That's about on course for the average attendance at the last 2 RLWCs. And this is for an event with low-tier national teams and second-string sides from their nation, not the elite of the sport. AND rugby in either form is much lower profile than in Oz or GB. Those numbers show that for a single event that was mostly promoted just within the USA rugby community, there can be a decent sized crowd.

You have to stop thinking of the crowds in comparison to American sports, because even with 100 years of presence RL will not draw comparable crowds. What they need to do is establish a niche for the sport and they will get better crowds than seen anywhere else in the world for RL, even if it's way low compared to native sports.

If you can get 9,000 to yawnion games between USA and Canada and teams like NZ Maori and England Saxons, you can get 10-20k to a RL game between Oz and NZ and GB.

Some posters seem to think are enough RU fans for pro RL to make a go of things in the US just on the basis of attracting those people. I was making the point that there aren't enough RU fans in the US for that, and organizers will have to reach out to other sports fans.

RL is uniquely positioned to do that with its' parallels to American football. If the game can attract even a fraction of the football fanbase, it can have a great future in America.

 

[BIKER_DRAGON]

Sounds like a good idea to me as long as the tournament is played with 20 teams in two divisions. Ten of those teams being like the teams in last years World Cup RL nations. The other ten teams being emerging RL countries such as the USA, Russia, Japan, Germany, Lebanon, Jamaca, Netherlands, Greece, Italy, South Africa,

 

[warriorsownyou]

Dumbest idea i've ever heard. The Yanks won't just get up and support any old sport. I know people have aspirations but honestly, it's just too early.

Now, Japan is an ideal candidate. They've got experience throwing their weight behind foreign tournaments and they've been crying out for a Union World Cup.

While they won't be as eager for a League World Cup if you want to realistically look at hosting a WC in foreign land it has to be Japan.

They take to foreign sports like a fish in water. Have sponsors galore. Brilliant stadia. Massive population. Hugely influential to surrounding Asian nations.

Though to be honest, I think League would be better advised to host a WC in Japan after Union has done it. Leech off their progression so to speak.

Alot of people won't agree with me but Union has so much money and influence internationally in comparison to League, that it's only wise to capitalise off their inroads.

I'm no marketing expert but for my money Asia, Eastern Europe and Russia are areas we should be focusing international growth on. These are sporting landscapes that are easy to build in.

America on the other hand, while it might be amazing, it's just not logical, at all. Which might anger some people, but it's too early as i mentioned. American sports for all their money can't even market themselfs and grow properly internationally. What makes you think RL growth in America would equate to anything other than RL growth in America?

On the other hand RL growth in Russia and Japan translates to growth throughout Eastern Europe and Asia.

I look forward to debating the issue, I'm sure some will disagree with my opinion.

 

[8Ball]

Dumbest idea i've ever heard. The Yanks won't just get up and support any old sport. I know people have aspirations but honestly, it's just too early.

Now, Japan is an ideal candidate. They've got experience throwing their weight behind foreign tournaments and they've been crying out for a Union World Cup.

While they won't be as eager for a League World Cup if you want to realistically look at hosting a WC in foreign land it has to be Japan.

They take to foreign sports like a fish in water. Have sponsors galore. Brilliant stadia. Massive population. Hugely influential to surrounding Asian nations.

Though to be honest, I think League would be better advised to host a WC in Japan after Union has done it. Leech off their progression so to speak.

Alot of people won't agree with me but Union has so much money and influence internationally in comparison to League, that it's only wise to capitalise off their inroads.

I'm no marketing expert but for my money Asia, Eastern Europe and Russia are areas we should be focusing international growth on. These are sporting landscapes that are easy to build in.

America on the other hand, while it might be amazing, it's just not logical, at all. Which might anger some people, but it's too early as i mentioned. American sports for all their money can't even market themselfs and grow properly internationally. What makes you think RL growth in America would equate to anything other than RL growth in America?

On the other hand RL growth in Russia and Japan translates to growth throughout Eastern Europe and Asia.

I look forward to debating the issue, I'm sure some will disagree with my opinion.

Sure it would be great to build growth all around the world.

But this project appears to be attracting sponsorships AND already has a mainstream broadcast agreement in the US (which certainly wouldn't have been possible without the creation and hype of a professional league). There wouldn't be opportunities like that elsewhere in the world.. What have we got to lose?

And growth in America would certainly boost rugby league's international profile.

 

[8Ball]

Edit: Double Post

 

[nadera78]

Well the decision on the host won't be made for a couple of years at least (knowing RL it will probably be decided in 2012!!!) so why not wait and see if the US comp gets off the ground in 2010, and see hwo it does that year and the following one. 2012 could then be used for the qualification process and 2013 the main event. I'd say let the host and cup holder qualify automatically, everyone else has to qualify.

You never know, if the USNRL is on for 2010 then the promise of the RLWC in 2013 may just convince the owners to stick with the comp until that date so that it gets a boost from hosting the world cup.

 

[warriorsownyou]

Sure it would be great to build growth all around the world.

But this project appears to be attracting sponsorships AND already has a mainstream broadcast agreement in the US (which certainly wouldn't have been possible without the creation and hype of a professional league). There wouldn't be opportunities like that elsewhere in the world.. What have we got to lose?

And growth in America would certainly boost rugby league's international profile.

But the thing is there would. The Japanese government would throw everything they had at such a tournament.

Even with the NRLUS in mind(which is non relevant) can you really say the American government would make the same effort. Lets got one further, even if they did, do you think the sport would take off in America? It wouldn't.

America is just too hard to conquer right now for League. Many sports have tried, with much more global popularity, much more influence, money, much more marketing accumen and failed miserably.

The time for America just isn't right.

And the growth of League in america would boost nothing. None of their sports have any international merit, even with all the money they throw around and their agressive marketing. Nobody cares for American sports. Nobdy would care if League was popular in America.

It's the wrong move, at this moment in time. We won't win there. In contrast Asia and Eastern Europe are very open sporting markets and are a realistic landscape to grow our sport.

I think alot of people are getting caught up in the American dream. The sport being popular in America just isn't realistic. It's a dream that won't be achieved, not for decades at the very least.

You can't work backwards like that. Why not Japan or Russia? They're massive countries, they're far more influential, and if sports grow their they grow throughout Asia and Eastern Europe.

I don't see any benefit to taking a WC to America, when considering the rate of failure(which is massively high). You won't get any sponsors in America that Japan can't offer you. Only difference is Japan will show commitment to growing and promoting the game, America won't.

As much as I love League it's clear we've got it wrong. When it comes to marketing and promotion we should be stalking Union. As they've had PROVEN success.

 

[warriorsownyou]

However if the NRLUS was a success, and i mean a success, not just surviving, i'd be more than happy to throw my support towards America hosting.

 

[nadera78]

However if the NRLUS was a success, and i mean a success, not just surviving, i'd be more than happy to throw my support towards America hosting.

But a world cup held in the USA could turn the USNRL from a surviving comp into a successful one.

 

[Sparky 74]

I think it should but the RLWC needs to have all playing teams

Australia
New Zealand
South Africa
France
England
Wales
Ireland
Scotland
Lebanon
Italy
Russia
Japan
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
PNG
Malta
Greece
Morocco
Germany
Spain
Argentina
USA
Canada

 

[Mc Fooly]

i was to young to appreciate the First one, when do you guys think we will get another wc be in America...