Should the 2013 WC be in America?

[coach]

Some people are under the impression that rugby league in the States is trying to muscle in on the same market that the NFL,NBA,NHL and MLB are in. The game has little or no chance of reaching those heady heights. As long as the game can earn it's keep financially then that's all we can ask for.

I have no doubt that the game is not trying to do this in the US. They would be stupid to even think of trying this let alone attempting to do so.

In your list you will also have to include College sports of Basketball and Football, plus Soccer. Right now League in America would rank last or near last in the list of sports. So right now the only way is up. But how far can they go up. More importantly how far do they want to climb. With them promoting the new competition as a professional league and pushing for TV exposure has to suggest they have big plans for the long term.

They are going to require media exposure and money to make this work.

Where are they going to get the players from? The NRLUS commpetition will run at the same time as both the NRL here and the Super League in England. No player is going to give up career here or England to play for less money in the USA.

 

[coach]

Sorry - thought you were being sarcastic.
I'd love to see a chinese team, but even though you see plenty of chinese australians at games, they don't seem to excel on the field, possibly because they are late developers unlike Islanders who are early developers.

You are right about the Pacific Islanders.

China is a huge untapped sporting market. Sooner or later one of the major sports is going to make a big jump in that country and League will have lost its chance.

 

[deluded pom?]

Where are they going to get the players from? The NRLUS commpetition will run at the same time as both the NRL here and the Super League in England. No player is going to give up career here or England to play for less money in the USA.

There's been a quote of $130,000 a season in an Australian newspaper. Whether this is US$ or AUS$ I'm not sure. If it were AUS$ what standard of Australian player would we be looking at? What sort of standard would it be for US$? The current exchange rate is US$130,000 = AUS$187,000. AUS$130,000 = US$90,000. Still not a bad payday for an average NRL player at the end of their career. The ESL are also looking to reduce the quota spots available to ESL teams.

 

[Poul]

I think 2013 would be too soon for the World Cup to be held in the USA, and it may even be detrimental to the continued development of the professional NRLUS competition. By 2013 the NRLUS will have completed only 3 seasons, and I would imagine that the standard of play will still fall well short of NRL, Super League, or even French Elite. I think it will be hard to attract significant numbers (>10,000) of locals to games, and if we do manage to, they would soon be made well aware of the limited standard of the local competition, thus making it harder to promote further interest in it. I think we should look at 2021, by which time the USNRL will be a more mature competition, hopefully having produced a significant number of home grown stars who will be able to mix it with the best on the world stage. A competitive Tomahawks team will do wonders for the development of Rugby League in the USA. Being World Cup whipping boys may well see the USNRL slide into oblivion.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I wouldn't assume the US will be weak for years to come. If they have eight clubs with even as few as 10 fully pro Americans as regular starters that's more than France has. With decent coaching at clun and national level a squad of the best Americans could be competitive as soon as 2013 or before. It's not as if they are that bad now when the likes of Peterson and McGoldrick are thrown in. They might not be in a position to win the 2013 WC but if this pro league is successful enough to survive for a few years the US should be in a position to put together a pretty competitive team, at least comparable to the likes of France, PNG, Ireland etc.

 

[roopy]

Quite frankly, if we don't do this or something equivalent, the game of RL has done very little to help establish the game in America and the Yanks owe us nothing.

 

[deluded pom?]

Quite frankly, if we don't do this or something equivalent, the game of RL has done very little to help establish the game in America and the Yanks owe us nothing.

I agree roopy. Until recently when has the game of RL ever done much outside of the established countries? We have been our own worst enemies. I just hope the Yanks get some support in this venture from the usual suspects.

 

[hgfds]

maybe the challenge cup for 2011

 

[jim_57]

I agree we need to give them something to boost the USNRL starting off but I don't think the WC2013 is possible, maybe 2017.

How about these for a few ideas:

• Internationals against opposition like France, Ireland, PNG etc, maybe even England, Australia or NZ?
• WCC in 2010 to kick off the season?
• Looking to include them in a 3 game WCC?
• Giving them the hosting rights to the Pacific cup 2010?
• Playing USA Internationals or Exibition in each of the 8 cities, possibly more.
• Combined training camps with NFL, NRL or SL clubs.
• A "mid-year" test match the week after the GF, preferably against opposition like France or England, a game V a country of 50-60 million is more likely to get attention than a game against Tonga, PNG or Wales for example.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

• A "mid-year" test match the week after the GF, preferably against opposition like France or England, a game V a country of 50-60 million is more likely to get attention than a game against Tonga, PNG or Wales for example.

It has to be against a country your average seppo has heard of. I know that probably limits us to England and France and maybe Russia or Ireland or Scotland. USA v Tonga would probably result in a big win to Tonga and most yanks will be asking two things, 1 what the f... is Tonga? and 2 how can bad must our team be if they lose to a place we've never heard of.

 

[druzik]

I agree we need to give them something to boost the USNRL starting off but I don't think the WC2013 is possible, maybe 2017.


How about these for a few ideas:

• Internationals against opposition like France, Ireland, PNG etc, maybe even England, Australia or NZ?
• WCC in 2010 to kick off the season?
• Looking to include them in a 3 game WCC?
• Giving them the hosting rights to the Pacific cup 2010?
• Playing USA Internationals or Exibition in each of the 8 cities, possibly more.
• Combined training camps with NFL, NRL or SL clubs.
• A "mid-year" test match the week after the GF, preferably against opposition like France or England, a game V a country of 50-60 million is more likely to get attention than a game against Tonga, PNG or Wales for example.

Jim couple of those points have merrits.

The thre way WCC though is an issue... why them and not the french champions, youd think that they are a cut above any US team. Why not the kiwi bartercard cup champs? You cant just go and throw these guys into the deep end with the sharks that the NRL and ESL are.

The mid year test against france is a good idea. The LER is in the off season then and you can use that as a trial for fringe LER players to fight for positions... like what England did with the Wales game for the WC... use the young up and commers. Still call it France, and they would make it a competitve match with a full strength Yank team.

 

[jim_57]

Jim couple of those points have merrits.
The thre way WCC though is an issue... why them and not the french champions, youd think that they are a cut above any US team. Why not the kiwi bartercard cup champs? You cant just go and throw these guys into the deep end with the sharks that the NRL and ESL are.

Good points, I meant after atleast a few years of experience. If we have 3 pro comps in the world wouldn't it make sense to have the 3 winners in a WCC eventually?

The mid year test against france is a good idea. The LER is in the off season then and you can use that as a trial for fringe LER players to fight for positions... like what England did with the Wales game for the WC... use the young up and commers. Still call it France, and they would make it a competitve match with a full strength Yank team.

Those are good points yes, although I wouldn't mind it being a full strength French team. Even if USA do cop a bit of a flogging it would be to a big country with a strong RL history, like ECT says if they were flogged by someone like Tonga it may put alot of people off.

Another good option would be Russia, these two are similar levels and have a could get a great rivalry going. Eventually the USA's professionalism will push them ahead of the Russians but that may force the Russians to get their act together to compete. Could become a great rivalry mid-year rivalry like AUS V NZ and England V France.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

They should be looking to invite Russia for a tour there after the first season. A] Russia is about the only country that might be able to send a full strength team there in July/August/September. B] They'll probably be well matched. and C] It would be a great rivalry. A three Test series would be great. If France was to go it would have to be like a France A team with just LER players and the same if PNG went - just domestic players. I suppose someone like Serbia or Jamaica could go if they had the cash, but they might not be quite up to that stage yet and they're probably not going to have the international profile of Russia, France or Ireland either.

 

[druzik]

Good points, I meant after atleast a few years of experience. If we have 3 pro comps in the world wouldn't it make sense to have the 3 winners in a WCC eventually?

I think in the end it would be a 4 way thing the french clubs will be up there as well.

Those are good points yes, although I wouldn't mind it being a full strength French team. Even if USA do cop a bit of a flogging it would be to a big country with a strong RL history, like ECT says if they were flogged by someone like Tonga it may put alot of people off.

Sorry but a full french team will not happen, not to travel. It will be too much of a strain on the ESL players and clubs. Playing England is one thing, but a trip to the US is too much for ESL players. A fringe french team would be more even competition and wont be a strain on the LER clubs.

Another good option would be Russia, these two are similar levels and have a could get a great rivalry going. Eventually the USA's professionalism will push them ahead of the Russians but that may force the Russians to get their act together to compete. Could become a great rivalry mid-year rivalry like AUS V NZ and England V France.

And where would the money coem from for this? Remember the distance that need to be traveled from the west russia to the US.

I think for now the US v Jamaica is a much better option to set up as a rivalry.

 

[jim_57]

They should be looking to invite Russia for a tour there after the first season. A] Russia is about the only country that might be able to send a full strength team there in July/August/September. B] They'll probably be well matched. and C] It would be a great rivalry. A three Test series would be great. If France was to go it would have to be like a France A team with just LER players and the same if PNG went - just domestic players. I suppose someone like Serbia or Jamaica could go if they had the cash, but they might not be quite up to that stage yet and they're probably not going to have the international profile of Russia, France or Ireland either.

Exactly, that's why the more I think about it the more I think Russia would be the best option, massive countries, massive rivalry, competitive games, all things we want. It would a great warm up Russia who will most likely be playing in Euro Cup and USA who bloody well should be in the pacific nations if not atleast an Atlantic comp with Japan, South Africa and Jamaica.

 

[jim_57]

I think in the end it would be a 4 way thing the french clubs will be up there as well.



Sorry but a full french team will not happen, not to travel. It will be too much of a strain on the ESL players and clubs. Playing England is one thing, but a trip to the US is too much for ESL players. A fringe french team would be more even competition and wont be a strain on the LER clubs.



And where would the money coem from for this? Remember the distance that need to be traveled from the west russia to the US.

I think for now the US v Jamaica is a much better option to set up as a rivalry.

you're probably right regarding the French team.

I think if any two nations ouside this year's 4N teams are going to travel USA and Russia would be right up there if not the top 2 in regards to $. Also not 100% on this but I think Russia would be in a much better financial position to make the trip to USA then Jamaica RL would. If given the option between attending a game V the Russians or Jamaicans you'd think that most americans would choose the Russians. I'd love to see Jamaica and USA start up a rivalry aswell, it may lead to a NZ Warrios style Jamaican team in the NRL but given a choice between playing the Russians or Jamaica I feel the USNRL would choose Russia.

I'm hoping that the TV deal that is being rumoured will also have Tomahawks internationals in the deal. The US are very patriotic and I imagine the ones that go to club games would very readily support the national team.

 

[druzik]

I think if any two nations ouside this year's 4N teams are going to travel USA and Russia would be right up there if not the top 2 in regards to $.

Well much of that moeny is going to be devoted to playing the European Cup and also travelling to the Challenge Cup. Also mid year is smack bang in the middle of the Russian season too. Also remember that Russia is contributing moeny to the RLIF.

Also not 100% on this but I think Russia would be in a much better financial position to make the trip to USA then Jamaica RL would.

How? Russia would have to take a squad of say 15 players plus staff about 10,000 km, so say $2000 return for a squad of 30 people, so $60k, plus hotels and stuff for say 3 weeks to do the test series.... plus visas.

Jamaica only has to travel 1000 km, probably have budget airlines flying for a few hundred dollars, only need hotels for a few days in stead of weeks, the test series can be done on a home and away basis, the two comps can be made to run parallel with ech other to provide. So traveling costs can be split between the USA and Jamaican teams.

If given the option between attending a game V the Russians or Jamaicans you'd think that most americans would choose the Russians.

Not sure why this would be the cas eeither... there is a decent ex-pat Jamaican population in the USA to target and if the USA are smart they would be looking at a Jamaican Franchise for the NRLUS down the track, so build up something with that.

I'd love to see Jamaica and USA start up a rivalry aswell, it may lead to a NZ Warrios style Jamaican team in the NRL but given a choice between playing the Russians or Jamaica I feel the USNRL would choose Russia.

To start with the USA will choose who is closest and cheapest... being Jamaica.... I think we will see in a few years maybe some sort of Atlantic cup get set up with SA, Jamica, USA and maybe if Cuba and Panama get their act together.

I'm hoping that the TV deal that is being rumoured will also have Tomahawks internationals in the deal. The US are very patriotic and I imagine the ones that go to club games would very readily support the national team.

Yes that will be important.

 

[roopy]

The problem with the Tomahawks playing Jamacia is that Jamacia would need at least half a team of grandparent rule players from England to make a match of it.
The Americans are 10 years ahead, but also come from a base of having played Union, while the majority of the Jamacians have only been getting serious tips for a year or so.
It would basically be a 60-0 game without heritage players.

 

[druzik]

The problem with the Tomahawks playing Jamacia is that Jamacia would need at least half a team of grandparent rule players from England to make a match of it.
The Americans are 10 years ahead, but also come from a base of having played Union, while the majority of the Jamacians have only been getting serious tips for a year or so.
It would basically be a 60-0 game without heritage players.

And what Jamaica doesnt have unioen either? Jaaiccan easily field a team of locals... they did last year and the year before.

can you name me Jamaican heritage players in the UK?

 

[jim_57]

Well much of that moeny is going to be devoted to playing the European Cup and also travelling to the Challenge Cup. Also mid year is smack bang in the middle of the Russian season too. Also remember that Russia is contributing moeny to the RLIF.

How? Russia would have to take a squad of say 15 players plus staff about 10,000 km, so say $2000 return for a squad of 30 people, so $60k, plus hotels and stuff for say 3 weeks to do the test series.... plus visas.

Jamaica only has to travel 1000 km, probably have budget airlines flying for a few hundred dollars, only need hotels for a few days in stead of weeks, the test series can be done on a home and away basis, the two comps can be made to run parallel with ech other to provide. So traveling costs can be split between the USA and Jamaican teams.

Yes but take into account RRL has alot more money than Jamaican RL. Sure the Euro Cup may cost a bit, but it's only 2 away games with not too far to travel and hosting one game. A 3 game tour might be a bit of a stetch but a 2 games series would be viable IMO, 1 home game each. The US can then go and play games against Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, PNG and Cook Islands in the Pacific Cup, Russia can play in the Euro cup and each team comes back bigger and better next year.

Not sure why this would be the cas eeither... there is a decent ex-pat Jamaican population in the USA to target and if the USA are smart they would be looking at a Jamaican Franchise for the NRLUS down the track, so build up something with that.

Yes but, the US and Russians have had a great sporting rivalry for quite a while, US players and fans like beating Russia and visa versa. Both two fairly even teams, both countries with massive potential and both countries with a decent amount of cash, I think it's a natural rivalry.

To start with the USA will choose who is closest and cheapest... being Jamaica.... I think we will see in a few years maybe some sort of Atlantic cup get set up with SA, Jamica, USA and maybe if Cuba and Panama get their act together.

Well if there is enough money in the USA to start an 8 team pro comp, I think there is enough money for them not to limit themselves the the closest and cheapest. Also think of this from a TV deal point of view which is where the money is supposedly coming from, I'd say a company looking for viewers would prefer USA V Russia or France then Jamaica.

Look it might seem like I'm being negative agaunst Jamaica but I would love to see the USA and them play more often, and they are rumoured to be playing twice this year which is great. BUT I think USA will also look for bigger and better oposition when they start a pro comp, not saying they should ditch Jamaica and the likes but I doubt they will limit themselves to playing Jamaica.

Yes that will be important.

very important.