Should the 2013 WC be in America?

[deluded pom?]

I think we will see in a few years maybe some sort of Atlantic cup get set up with SA, Jamica, USA and maybe if Cuba and Panama get their act together.



quote]


Cuba v USA won't be happening anytime soon. Panama? That's the first I've heard of them on the radar dru.

 

[roopy]

And what Jamaica doesnt have unioen either? Jaaiccan easily field a team of locals... they did last year and the year before.

can you name me Jamaican heritage players in the UK?

I can tell you that the Axemen beat the Jamacians 34 - 20 last year, and i can tell you that the Jamacians say they haven't come from Union teams - they are new to the game.
I can also tell you i've seen the Americans play several times, and i've seen clips of Jamacian teams on the net, and there is a massive difference right now.
The Tomahawks would be a lot stronger than the Axemen, so it would be a massive upset if the Jamacians were to beat a Tomahawks side that played against teams like Samoa just last year.
Playing the tomahawks will do a lot for Jamacian league, but not much for American league right now - maybe in a few years.

 

[Big Picture]

And where would the money coem from for this? Remember the distance that need to be traveled from the west russia to the US.

I think for now the US v Jamaica is a much better option to set up as a rivalry.

Jamaice a better rival for the US than Russia??? You must be on some awesome drugs there! Russia would be much more appealing to American sports fans since the two countries have existing rivalries both in sports and politically. A series against the US is something the Russians could probably sell easily to Russian TV and sponsors.

 

[deluded pom?]

Jamaice a better rival for the US than Russia??? You must be on some awesome drugs there! Russia would be much more appealing to American sports fans since the two countries have existing rivalries both in sports and politically. A series against the US is something the Russians could probably sell easily to Russian TV and sponsors.

I think dru's arguing from a financial point rather than who would be the biggest or best team to sell the Tomahawks on the back of.

 

[druzik]

I think dru's arguing from a financial point rather than who would be the biggest or best team to sell the Tomahawks on the back of.

Exactly...

also roopy we need to do what we can to have the Jamaicans come up to speed as well. Sure in the short term they will benfit more but in the long term everyone will.

I think many RL fans outside of Australi and England think too big too fast. You need to learn to walk before running a marathon.

USA maybe be looking to go pro but it will still be baby steps and kaunching straight into full blown tours and stuff against opposition like russia would possibly do more damage initailly, Financially.

You need to build up the profile of the sport first with whats around you before. Besides if this rivalry was so big and translated to all sports, why when we had the victory cup didnt we see this translate to more regular games? We had Australia play a test in the USA and nothing else came out f that. why? Probably because for all parties it was an expensive venture and would have strained the finances. Its why the GB v NZ mid year test were abandoned... it was an expensive venture for two giants of the sport. No we need to creat local rivalries.

You'll see, there will be a Jamaica v USA international by years end, if not two.

OH and I also would suspect the USNRL down the line will want a Jamaican or west indian club franchise come into their pro comp... so setting up an international rivalry will help in that as well.

... and BP, even though it probably was not meant to be serious and in jest... I tend to take offense of any mention of me being linked to drugs.

 

[druzik]

I can tell you that the Axemen beat the Jamacians 34 - 20 last year, and i can tell you that the Jamacians say they haven't come from Union teams - they are new to the game.
I can also tell you i've seen the Americans play several times, and i've seen clips of Jamacian teams on the net, and there is a massive difference right now.
The Tomahawks would be a lot stronger than the Axemen, so it would be a massive upset if the Jamacians were to beat a Tomahawks side that played against teams like Samoa just last year.
Playing the tomahawks will do a lot for Jamacian league, but not much for American league right now - maybe in a few years.

I know most of the Jamaicans havent come from usion, but they have benefited a bit from Unions exposure there... Actually they are worried at the moment that RL will get lumped in with Union with the recent spate of violence on the Union fields thats been happeneing.

I have seen the yanks play as well a couple times, I agree they are probably better than the jamaicasn but they nee dot do as Engalnd are doing with france, to bring them up to speed and build a local rivalry.

If the Jamaicans beat the USA id would be an amazing story dont you think... and I think a real feel good one.

 

[stevet]

if they give spinner and drew some solid backing ,not empty promises ,these guys will make it happen, jacksonville has got a knowledge and interest ,because of the uk games in january and the well marketed axemen, these guys can work with 7 more clubs in the us for now,there is big money here,convincing the bigboys is now the time, they are not buying property or stocks, the leisure industry is up 20% still in a time of so called recession, this game appeals to the us, and they have some quality athletes,especially in florida,we have to have a go to team to market our game, spinner and drew, keep the flame from going out, im still holding my breath for someone to contact me on how to develop towards next year,we have the backers and the ground a very raw team ,but we have the seeds planted, a mans gotta dream,steve@bradenton bulldogs

 

[joshreading]

Steve, have you thought about taking it out of the AMNRL's hands and proposing a south eastern division with Spinner. Especially with the potential of a pro team down the road, even some rugby union teams might be tempted by the possibility.

Start with the two teams and then actively seek others. I think the AMNRL are going to be bogged down in trying to pull off this pro comp.

 

[yankeeboy]

I don't see why the 2013 World Cup couldn't be in the States. It's the most popular sport in QLD and NSW and they could only get an average attendance of 16k to last year's world cup. In the United States, high schools get that kind of attendance for sporting events, not international world cup matches.

It would not at all be dissimilar to the 1994 FIFA World Cup. There had been professional soccer in the United States from the late 1960s to the early 1980s (including the famous New York Cosmos and their star Pele) but almost all of the players were foreign--at times, American teams would simply import entire foreign clubs to play for them. By the 1980s, the professional league had dried up and the only pro soccer in the US was indoor soccer. The US was awarded the FIFA World Cup on a development platform--the country hadn't even qualified for the World Cup in 40 years, yet FIFA realized the country was a sleeping giant when it came to soccer. Lo and behold, the US qualified for '90 and made the round of 16 before losing by a goal to eventual winners Brazil.

The soccer infrastructure in the USA in 1994 was slim to none. There was no grassroots movement, no television, no professional game, and seemingly no future. However, the World Cup got crowds of 60k+ to every game across the country--setting a record for attendance that hasn't been beaten yet, despite the fact that since 1998 the cup has had 32 teams instead of 24. As a result of the cup, MLS was developed (FIFA made the USSF introduce a pro league as a part of the world cup deal). MLS struggled early on but has become profittable and has some of the best players in the world today.

League would be starting in a similar situation, with one major exception--League is a lot more American-friendly than soccer is. Most of us are bored to tears by soccer, whereas league is perhaps the most similar game to American football there is. In fact, the fact that League is even harder-hitting and faster-moving might make the game BETTER suited to the US than American football.

The USA is huge--over 10x the Aussie population. This means that a much smaller percentage of the population can be aware of the RLWC with similar turnout.

The soccer-specific stadia throughout the country, which seat 20-25k, would be perfect for preliminary round games, and I think that they could definitely sell out every game (if Nigeria-Bulgaria soccer could get 44k in Dallas in 94, then I think that Ireland-Samoa or whatever could get 25k). The final could be held in a large NFL stadium and I think it would have a good chance of selling it out.

The gate returns are going to be better than in the UK or Aus just because of the larger population, so long as the tournament is promoted well enough. If the new NRLUS is launched and successful, RL will already have the coverage in the states to attract people to the cup.

FIFA was willing to take the leap of faith on the USA, and the States are fast turning into one of their most lucrative markets. The RLIF should do the same and welcome a powerful new nation into the fold. The AMNRL is a great comp but it has absolutely no exposure whatsover--there are 8 teams and most of the players are just playing in the off-season from union. However, a world cup in the states could honestly lead to a professional competition that could soon rival the ESL and NRL.

 

[ride the tiger]

I originally was 100 % behind this idea until one thing about last year’s WC caused me some concern.
The standard of footy played.
Sure the games were entertaining to us league fans who weren’t expecting anything special as far as high quality games go, but could this have a bad effect on Americans checking out the game for the first time?
They may watch it expecting to see the best players in the world & walk away disappointed in the level of skills & athleticism.
I guess I could hope for the standard to improve by 2013 but even if it does I don’t think it will be enough.
Just something to consider as I really want the USNRL to succeed as I believe it will have a huge positive effect on international league.

 

[roopy]

I originally was 100 % behind this idea until one thing about last year’s WC caused me some concern.
The standard of footy played.
Sure the games were entertaining to us league fans who weren’t expecting anything special as far as high quality games go, but could this have a bad effect on Americans checking out the game for the first time?
They may watch it expecting to see the best players in the world & walk away disappointed in the level of skills & athleticism.
I guess I could hope for the standard to improve by 2013 but even if it does I don’t think it will be enough.
Just something to consider as I really want the USNRL to succeed as I believe it will have a huge positive effect on international league.

Not sure what your point is, but if you are saying the RLWC would disappoint American 'Rugby' fans with it's level of athleticism, you have obviously never seen footage of American Rugby Union. They have the fitness and skill level of a country over 40s comp in Australia - and that's Union, which looks like a dog's breakfast when it's played at the highest level.
If an american 'rugby' fan went from a game of local union to any game in a RLWC he would think he had gone from under 8s to seniors by comparison.

 

[ride the tiger]

Not sure what your point is, but if you are saying the RLWC would disappoint American 'Rugby' fans with it's level of athleticism, you have obviously never seen footage of American Rugby Union. They have the fitness and skill level of a country over 40s comp in Australia - and that's Union, which looks like a dog's breakfast when it's played at the highest level.
If an american 'rugby' fan went from a game of local union to any game in a RLWC he would think he had gone from under 8s to seniors by comparison.

Wow im blown away that I actually have to explain this. Do you really think id be worried about what US union fans think of a sub standard WC game of league? And how the hell you got that idea out of my post, only you & god would know.

Simply put I am worried about what the general US sports fan would think of it. You know the ones that watch NFL, NBA, MLB etc - sports that exhibit huge levels of skill & athleticism. Probably the same sports fans that the USNRL would like to eventually reach.

So these American sports fans who watch athletes with world class skills week in week out would go to a RL World Cup possibly expecting the same standards because of the fact it’s a world cup & possibly in their eyes should have the best players in the world playing.

But instead of getting a spectacle that you would get in a SOO game, they watch Ireland vs Wales where the best players are some second rate aussie’s.

Do you think there may be a chance that they would walk away disappointed, never to give to game another chance? I believe there is a chance of this happening, thus my concern.

Is there any reason for me to be concerned about this? i don't know but i'd prefer to offer them a product that shows what is possible. (and not just one game i.e the final, but at least half of them.)

Sorry if my English isn’t easy to comprehend but it’s as simple as I can put it.

 

[Thomas]

It would not at all be dissimilar to the 1994 FIFA World Cup. There had been professional soccer in the United States from the late 1960s to the early 1980s (including the famous New York Cosmos and their star Pele) but almost all of the players were foreign--at times, American teams would simply import entire foreign clubs to play for them. By the 1980s, the professional league had dried up and the only pro soccer in the US was indoor soccer. The US was awarded the FIFA World Cup on a development platform--the country hadn't even qualified for the World Cup in 40 years, yet FIFA realized the country was a sleeping giant when it came to soccer. Lo and behold, the US qualified for '90 and made the round of 16 before losing by a goal to eventual winners Brazil.

Sure...you may think soccer wasn't huge in the lead up to the 94 world Cup...but it is huge in the grass roots. This is something that RL in the USA doesn't have. RL isn't even a blip on the sporting radar when it comes to the USA.

IMHO having the US hosting the 2013 RLWC is a fanciful idea at best. How about getting the comp up and running...getting support in the grass roots and getting people to know the game....then maybe hosting some smaller tours or tournaments before hosting the WC.

The game has to actually grow there first.

Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch...

 

[romeocbarsharks]

I can tell you that the Axemen beat the Jamacians 34 - 20 last year, and i can tell you that the Jamacians say they haven't come from Union teams - they are new to the game.
I can also tell you i've seen the Americans play several times, and i've seen clips of Jamacian teams on the net, and there is a massive difference right now.
The Tomahawks would be a lot stronger than the Axemen, so it would be a massive upset if the Jamacians were to beat a Tomahawks side that played against teams like Samoa just last year.
Playing the tomahawks will do a lot for Jamacian league, but not much for American league right now - maybe in a few years.

I think building a USA vs Jamaica rivalry is good for both countries..there are huge Jamaican expat pops. in places like NY, miami etc. When the USA plays Jamaica in soccer, they dont play these games in any of these cities..cause the jamaican supporters always number half.
we are are the closet rl neighbours so we oughtt to work together to build a profile for international fans, i'd like to see annual clashes.

Jamaica RL is competive, with local coaching and local players only, we almost won our game againstthe RAF last year...and they were a decent standard.
Now we have a professional coach...and some pro heritage players who have put their hands up..mix that with the best we got..and usa vs jamaica will be very exciting and competitive...
i have been told by someone who coached at SL level, that he saw at least two local players who could be playing at the Championship level in England. Dont use the youtube clips to judge the level of a National team..the 20 best local guys can be competitive against any amateur international team.

 

[roopy]

I think building a USA vs Jamaica rivalry is good for both countries..there are huge Jamaican expat pops. in places like NY, miami etc. When the USA plays Jamaica in soccer, they dont play these games in any of these cities..cause the jamaican supporters always number half.
we are are the closet rl neighbours so we oughtt to work together to build a profile for international fans, i'd like to see annual clashes.

Jamaica RL is competive, with local coaching and local players only, we almost won our game againstthe RAF last year...and they were a decent standard.
Now we have a professional coach...and some pro heritage players who have put their hands up..mix that with the best we got..and usa vs jamaica will be very exciting and competitive...
i have been told by someone who coached at SL level, that he saw at least two local players who could be playing at the Championship level in England. Dont use the youtube clips to judge the level of a National team..the 20 best local guys can be competitive against any amateur international team.

I think Jamacia will develop much quicker than America have, but America are still 10 years further along the development path right now.
I'd be delighted if Jamacia can beat America, and i think games between the two will help Jamacia develop quickly, but i just think America have done much more work and would be too strong just now.

 

[yankeeboy]

Sure...you may think soccer wasn't huge in the lead up to the 94 world Cup...but it is huge in the grass roots. This is something that RL in the USA doesn't have. RL isn't even a blip on the sporting radar when it comes to the USA.

IMHO having the US hosting the 2013 RLWC is a fanciful idea at best. How about getting the comp up and running...getting support in the grass roots and getting people to know the game....then maybe hosting some smaller tours or tournaments before hosting the WC.

The game has to actually grow there first.

Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch...

Soccer was not particularly huge in grassroots in 1994...actually about the size he American rugby grassroots is now. Soccer was a sport played by little kids and foreigners until the World Cup made it acceptable to the general populace...just as rugby is a sport played by drunken college boys and foreigners.

Most Union fans would come out to a RLWC because in reality most Americans just see the sport as "Rugby" and draw little to no distinction between the sports. In the information age this may have changed a bit, but to the casual fan and indeed to the casual player rugby union and rugby league are the same--just rugby.

I firnly believe that even with little grassroots support, a World Cup held in the States in 2013 would outdraw the 2008 WC by a significant amount both in spectators and in income. If the 2010 USNRL plan actually gets off this would help significantly because we'd have a strong national base that soccer wouldn't have.

Should the cup really be going to England, whose last cup managed a paltry 8000 per game? Give the cup to where the sport's only true potential for growth lies--the US of A.

 

[deluded pom?]

...just as rugby is a sport played by drunken college boys and foreigners.

Most Union fans would come out to a RLWC because in reality most Americans just see the sport as "Rugby" and draw little to no distinction between the sports. In the information age this may have changed a bit, but to the casual fan and indeed to the casual player rugby union and rugby league are the same--just rugby.

So wouldn't the average American perceive rugby league as "rugby" a game played by drunken college boys and foreigners? What you think is a bonus I see as a hindrance. To the Yank in the street rugby is rugby regardless of which code it is and he/she already has a predetermined image of the sport, rightly or wrongly, and the people who play it.

 

[roopy]

So wouldn't the average American perceive rugby league as "rugby" a game played by drunken college boys and foreigners? What you think is a bonus I see as a hindrance. To the Yank in the street rugby is rugby regardless of which code it is and he/she already has a predetermined image of the sport, rightly or wrongly, and the people who play it.

Which is our challenge in America - change that perception by putting on some quality, professional contests - the WC would be a bloody good start.

 

[stevet]

its never too early , the americans would love it,all sports are booming ,in florida especially, i cannot believe the game of lacrosse is more popular than ours, what a boring game{biased i know} but the crowds for lacrosse blow me away, ps the rugby onion top guy called me about the pro league ,seemed very disturbed that we could do such a thing before them, questioned me at length ,i blew so much smoke up his bum ,i bet mr melville at ru hq is calling the aussies right now! the us is ready for the world cup guys go for it, steve@bradenton bulldogs,ps we are at eckard colledge today we are proposing union 1st half 2nd half league!

 

[Big Picture]

So wouldn't the average American perceive rugby league as "rugby" a game played by drunken college boys and foreigners? What you think is a bonus I see as a hindrance. To the Yank in the street rugby is rugby regardless of which code it is and he/she already has a predetermined image of the sport, rightly or wrongly, and the people who play it.

To get around that, market it as an International brand of football, not as rugby. Stress the parallels to American football in every way possible: make sure every game is played on a uniformly marked field with solid, numbered lines like Americans are used to, replace rugby terminology with American terms like touchdown, report game stats in American football style, etc. The key to breaking through in the US is getting American football fans interested in the game.