Super League Expansion (possible)

[Foreign Legion]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...uld-expand-13-14-teams-proposals-rugby-league

A proposal which involves increasing the number of teams in Super League to 13, or even 14, is being considered by the Rugby Football League as discussions begin on the format of the sport’s league structure for 2018 and beyond.

High-ranking officials from both the RFL and Super League met at Haydock Park last week to discuss the future of the Super 8s structure. While no decision was reached, a proposal put forward by one club owner is understood to have attracted particular interest.

It includes bringing at least one extra side into the competition, with the leading contender for the extra slot likely to be Hull Kingston Rovers if they fail to gain promotion from the Championship this season. Hull KR were relegated from Super League last October in the Million Pound Game defeat against Salford.

Around three-quarters of clubs were understood to have expressed interest in the proposal which will now be assessed for financial viability before the clubs meet again next month to discuss it further. While clubs were interested in the idea, they are keen to seek assurances that should any extra teams come into the competition, existing funding levels would not be cut as a result of an increased Super League.

The proposal also includes plans to potentially rise the number of teams in Super League even higher, with a 14th team coming in – although that would likely not occur until 2019 at the earliest if the plans are given the green light by both the RFL and the clubs.

Any increase of the competition’s size would inevitably involve changes to the regular season format, and questions will arise on how the introduction of an extra side would affect Magic Weekend, where an entire round of fixtures is played at one venue across a single weekend. The concept is almost certain to remain in the calendar in 2018, and will likely remain as a bonus round. Yet with a 13-team competition that would create a disparity in points, with one team unable to play the same amount of fixtures as everyone else.

An official decision on changes to the structure are not expected to be revealed until the end of the season, but other tweaks to the current format discussed last week include awarding the League Leaders’ Shield before the start of the Super 8s, as well as a potential earlier kick-off time for the Thursday evening time slot.

 

[Dakink]

Be interested to hear our English friends thoughts?

 

[roughyed8]

So three years after cutting down to 12 clubs they have changed their minds again

 

[titoelcolombiano]

So three years after cutting down to 12 clubs they have changed their minds again

Maybe the emergence of Toulouse, Toronto and the strength at the top of the Championship lately has allowed for them to revisit 14 clubs

 

[Leigh Howlett]

Considering that the core base is Yorkshire/Lancashire what is the point of expansion, Catalans aren't setting the game on fire and their fan base isn't exactly huge, let's say in the Middle 8's London gain promotion will the RFL pour resources into the side to maintain the momentun?.

 

[roughyed8]

Maybe the emergence of Toulouse, Toronto and the strength at the top of the Championship lately has allowed for them to revisit 14 clubs

They cut the numbers because clubs wanted a bigger cut of TV money, they have already agreed the distribution of the cash from the new deal . Are the current clubs going to take less or are they going to cut the amount going to the championship clubs.

 

[roughyedspud]

The RFL at the moment are just chucking ideas against a wall and seeing which ones stick,they are frigging clueless

 

[adamkungl]

The cyncical (and likely) answer is that they're shitting themselves that Warrington or Catalans (or Wigan at a long shot) are gonna drop.

 

[jim_57]

The cyncical (and likely) answer is that they're shitting themselves that Warrington or Catalans (or Wigan at a long shot) are gonna drop.

It really is hard to understand Promotion and Relegation systems and why anybody would think it's a good idea from an Australian point of view.

I suppose alot of English people might feel the exact opposite way.

 

[adamkungl]

I dont think P&R works optimally under a hard salary cap.
Having your rich, successful clubs as likely as anyone to fall out the bottom seems like a recipe for disaster. Clubs who pull 15,000 crowds should be able to outspend a club that struggles to pull 1/3rd of that.

 

[Albert Rosenfeld]

No plans for expansion make any sense without a return to licencing.

There are 4 clubs not in Super League now that need to be there by 2019: Hull KR, London Broncos, Toulouse Olympique and Toronto Wolfpack. That means if no club is demoted beforehand, then there needs to be 16 teams in Super League for those 4 clubs to be promoted..

Personally I would like to see Leigh and Widnes demoted, so that we would then only have to go to 14 clubs initially. Later, if Montreal or any US club should make an appearance in the competition along the lines of Toronto then a place has to be made for them in Super League, by further enlarging the SL competition This can only be expedited with a franchise-licencing system, not with P & R.

 

[PaulyTom]

I personally prefer the current set up of promotion and relegation .

I've starting following the lower league teams. Gives hope to the lower league teams of one day playing in Super league. And gives teams from a non north of England an opportunity to join the league at the bottom and work their way through the league's.

Super league have on far to many occasions created expansion teams in areas that did not have the grassroots and backing . Subsequently teams fell away and became bankrupt. Starting off small and building a sound financial plan are key to all clubs succeeding.

 

[jim_57]

I personally prefer the current set up of promotion and relegation .

I've starting following the lower league teams. Gives hope to the lower league teams of one day playing in Super league. And gives teams from a non north of England an opportunity to join the league at the bottom and work their way through the league's.

Super league have on far to many occasions created expansion teams in areas that did not have the grassroots and backing . Subsequently teams fell away and became bankrupt. Starting off small and building a sound financial plan are key to all clubs succeeding.

I don't think it's the oppurtunity to go up that concerns people, it is the oppurtunity that you could lose your biggest and/or most important clubs for a team getting 1/4 the crowds.

It can lead to clubs overplaying their hand like Sheffield and does not promote youth development one iota if clubs need to buy a quick fix to get in to or stay in Super League.

It's self sabotage to please some clubs, most of whom don't have the potential to be in SL anyway. Losing Wigan, Warrington or Catalans would be a disaster no matyer who replaces them.

 

[PaulyTom]

That's the joys of relegation and promotion.

What the rfl need to do is get some more interest in to the lower leagues. A t.v contract would make a start.

 

[deluded pom?]

That's the joys of relegation and promotion.

What the rfl need to do is get some more interest in to the lower leagues. A t.v contract would make a start.

Who'd watch a league of second rate teams going nowhere fast? I'm quickly becoming pi$$ed off with the game in this country (UK). They can't settle on a system without changing it again five minutes later.

 

[deal.with.it]

This gets back to the argument that the RFL needs to look at what they want the 3 tiers to look like in 2020 and beyond.

If you had say London, Coventry, Toulouse, Montreal and Toronto all wanting a place in SL, what do you do? Say no?

How do you accommodate potentially 20 SL clubs?

Do you have 2 conferences?

In the NRL, I think we need to move to system that has Perth, Central QLD and one day Adelaide in it.

To do that, I'd have teams pooled with their historic rivals and I'm sure this could work in SL too.

So in the NRL, you would have someone like the Roosters play every team once and also play their biggest rivals - rabbits, dragons, etc - twice.

The Broncos would play Gold Coast, the Cowboys, and say Central QLD twice, and everyone else once.

It maintains good crowds, historical rivalries to continue for the dinosaur spectator, and accommodates increased teams.

In SL, you could have St Helens, Wigan, Warrington and Widnes play each other twice and ever other team once.

 

[deluded pom?]

If they do go to 14 teams with the drawbridge raised then it'll be interesting to see which teams they allow in. A lot of talk on the TRL forum have Hull KR and Bradford as the front runners. If that eventuates then where does that leave Toronto, London and Toulouse? Why would the teams on the outside bother carrying on? Forget the argument that a lot of these teams don't bring anything to SL. What some of them do bring is players. It would be yet another cut to already dwindling player production.

 

[Jankuloski]

What are the criteria for a SL worthy team?

For me it would have to be attendances as it speaks to fan numbers in general - you would want your most supported clubs in top tier.

Alternatively, there's funding or results. Funding only gets you so far, as evidenced by Salford struggling to attract bigger crowds even with a good run this year. Results are fickle, a team in a bad year might be dropped harming an established fan base.

Hence, Bradford have an awful ground, but had good crowds in SL, Hull KR too, Toronto's attendances are on par with SL ones so these would be the logical choice, with Widnes or Leigh to make up the numbers if needed.

London have a steady 3k attendance and until they budge from there, there is no reason to keep them on "potential" because they were in SL for years and this potential did not fulfil.

I would love to see Toulouse, but don't know their attendance figures tbh

 

[johnny plath]

If they do go to 14 teams with the drawbridge raised then it'll be interesting to see which teams they allow in. A lot of talk on the TRL forum have Hull KR and Bradford as the front runners. If that eventuates then where does that leave Toronto, London and Toulouse? Why would the teams on the outside bother carrying on? Forget the argument that a lot of these teams don't bring anything to SL. What some of them do bring is players. It would be yet another cut to already dwindling player production.

I guess your point about why teams outside of SL bother to carry on could be compared to the Qld Intrust Cup in Australia. It sits as a tier below the NRL and teams in it aren't playing with any aspiration of a promotion to NRL as thats not on offer, but its treated as a serious, fierce, historical competition where players of like skill levels compete hard. The clubs within it are well run and take pride in their place in the pecking order of rugby league in Australia... it has grown out of the Brisbane Rugby League comp, so has a long tradition I'd assume similar to the UK Championship league. Its a platform where players develop skills as a stepping stone into the NRL. Just because a team is not in the top tier possible, doesn't mean that it has no worth. They operate professionally within their own limitations, gain sponsors, pay players, run development programs for their juniors and so on... pretty much what top tier teams do, but just not at the same scale. I guess another important aspect is that these Q cup teams are very much representative of their communities, and the locals who support them have every bit as much passion and pride in them as they do in any NRL teams... I'd imagine the same would exist in England for lower tier teams.

 

[jim_57]

If they do go to 14 teams with the drawbridge raised then it'll be interesting to see which teams they allow in. A lot of talk on the TRL forum have Hull KR and Bradford as the front runners. If that eventuates then where does that leave Toronto, London and Toulouse? Why would the teams on the outside bother carrying on? Forget the argument that a lot of these teams don't bring anything to SL. What some of them do bring is players. It would be yet another cut to already dwindling player production.

The same Bradford that are odds on the get relegated and drop to division 3 after repeatedly going broke?

If the bars are shifted last minute to allow Bradford in after making Toulouse and Toronto "earn their way" up then I for one would lose most of my interest in the club game over there. Absolutely farcical.