Understanding the 2021 World Cup Qualifiers

Discussion in 'International' started by adamkungl, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    Agree with a lot of that, I think by 2021 there is every chance some new teams could be in with a shot and existing fringe teams could be in with a much better chance.
     
  2. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    I might be alone on this, but I think some of the prime targets for international expansion in the next few years should be the top 10 Rugby Union countries that don't have a decent RL presence yet.

    Anywhere that plays Rugby at a decent level should have some blokes willing to give League a crack. Even if they're the leftovers - who knows maybe theyre better suited to the 13 man game. The game started by splintering from RU, why not run with it..

    I'm talking:
    Japan
    South Africa
    Namibia
    Kenya
    Argentina
    Uruguay
    Georgia
    Romania
    Portugal
    Germany
     
  3. Force

    Force Juniors

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    I dont think Asia-Pacific should get an extra automatic spot, I just dont think Europe deserve a 7th spot either nor the Africa/Middle East and the 2nd America's. I would rather the 7th European, 2nd America's and the African/Middle East spots be up for grabs in a repechage play-off tournament for those that didnt make it through their regional qualifiers. The Emerging Nations tournament is a good opportunity to do that.

    I agree they arent any better than the teams already qualified but they are better than the next lot like Russia, Serbia,Sth Africa, Canada etc...
     
  4. Force

    Force Juniors

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    Rugby League is already developed there
    Well given their smaller population size people seem to think its ok to overlook them for bigger Nations where league is still a minor blip especially when its been thriving in the Cooks for over 3 decades. This was none more evident when they were overlooked for the Pacific test series between Samoa/Tonga/Fiji and PNG.
     
  5. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    Would I be correct in guessing Fiji would still have more teams domestically? and definitely produce more players? That's the point I'm getting at, they should be given every chance to qualify, but given the size of their country and player base should be very happy with their level.

    Agree they should be a part of the rep weekend.
     
  6. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    Think listing Canada in there is presumptuous, would be a good game at full strength IMO. I don't think there is conclusive proof they would definitely be in the top 16 teams in 2021 anyway, Canada and Jamaica would be a similar level and in 5 years time and perhaps the help of some heritage players Serbia and Phillipines could develop to be a match for them. That's just guess work, but the tournament is 5 years away so that's all we have.
     
  7. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    The struggle is getting a comp that is anything other than a few RU players running around for a few weeks in the off season. Definitely worth a look, but if it's just a bunch of anatuer blokes running the show it will be a major uphill battle.

    Of course some targeted influence from NRL or SL clubs could be a major help.
     
  8. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    As I said above I'd go
    Euro 6
    A-P 6
    Americas 2
    MEA 1
    Playoff series 1
     
  9. Force

    Force Juniors

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    Unless they can get players playing at the top level (NRL/SL) or just below then I cant see that happening.
    Fiji most probably do have more teams and produce more domestic players yes but they're about even on the heritage players.
     
  10. Force

    Force Juniors

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    I would very much doubt Canada can foot it with a full strength Cook Islands team, same with Serbia, Philippines and what not. Cook Islands at full strength (admittedly with heritage players) would be full of NRL and Super League players. Unless those teams can match that then they would'nt stand a chance.
     
  11. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Cook Islands have never fielded a team full of NRL or SL players
     
  12. Force

    Force Juniors

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    I guess thats something similar but
    If they were at full strength they would!
     
  13. Force

    Force Juniors

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    A full strength Cook Islands side would look something like this:

    1. Valentine Holmes
    2. Jordan Rapana
    3. Joseph Manu
    4. Anthony Gelling
    5. Dominique Peyroux
    6. Brad Takairangi
    7. Isaac John
    8. Josh Papali'i
    9. Sione Katoa
    10. Dylan Napa
    11. Tepai Moeroa
    12. Zeb Taia
    13. Alex Glenn

    14. Zane Tetevano
    15. Kenny Edwards
    16. Sam Mataora
    17. Tinirau Arona

    11 of the team have already represented the Cook Islands and at least 3 more of these will represent them vs PNG come May.
     
  14. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    Well that would be the plan, IMO sooner or later the change in immigration trends will start helping some Asian national sides. Hopefully any of them can buold a strong domestic scene to back that up.

    I don't think that is true at all, like it or not how many players from that Cook Islands team would be born in the Cooks? Fiji has a good handful or Fijian born players available. That's not a dig at the Cooks, I think they do very well for a nation their size and heritage players will always be a necessity for them.

    They should be given their chance to qualify in every tournament, but if they do qualify it should be at the expense of Tonga, Samoa etc, not at the expense of other areas.
     
  15. Force

    Force Juniors

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    I know Sam Mataora and Tepai Moeroa were born in the Cook Islands but like the other Pacific Island teams (bar PNG) most would be raised in NZ or OZ. They would be able to foot it with the other Pacific Island Nations and be too good for those other fringe Nations. For teams to be competitive or foot it with the top sides they will have to feature heritage players or be on the end of cricket scores.
     
  16. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    I think we're going around in circles here, you think it should black and white the 16 best teams in the World Cup and I would prefer a set number from each region to prevent over saturation from the Islands. IMO the RLIF has to balance playing strength and commercial opportunities and what is best for the game going forward.

    Neither Cook Islands, Russia, Canada or Phillipines will win the 2021 World Cup, I don't prioritizing lack of "cricket scores" above ALL else is the right idea.
     
    morningstar likes this.
  17. Force

    Force Juniors

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    To me our arse is back to front where the International Game lags behind a game between two States and a domestic comp (NRL/SL). I want the International Game to be at the forefront but you wont get that when people treat the World Cup as a development tournament. A World Cup must be treated as the pinnacle, this is part of the reason why the Union counter-part is so successful because the International game is at the top.If you want development in a World tournament use the Emerging Nations instead.

    What I would like to see is 6 teams for both Europe and Pacific (move Asia in with the Middle East, they and the ME region would do much better that way cos the Pacific teams are too good to get past). Also, 1 from the America's. So thats 13 automatic qualifying spots, the other 3 I would like for them to be up for grabs at an Emerging Nations tournament where all the other teams who missed out on the proper World Cup qualifications attend and strive to win it, come second or third. I think this is fair and less confusing then how they have things cos every Nation is given a fair chance and the best 3 will go through.

    Edit to add: Enforce the domestic player rule (or at least limit the number of Pro players per team) at the Emerging Nations tournament so heritage teams dont flog the others.This will even the tournament out even more and reward those who have put in the effort to develop the game at home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  18. jim_57

    jim_57 Juniors

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    What I'm suggesting hardly makes it a development tournament, we're talking about the last few fringe spots. I imagine the makeup of the Soccer or RU world Cups would be different if they went for the exact best teams and not regionalized qualifiers, but nobody is calling those a development tournament.

    Most other things we agree on, I would love to see the International game as the pinnacle of Interest in RL, hopefully one day it can regain it's position on top of the tree.
     
  19. Force

    Force Juniors

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    With soccer the way they do qualifiers is on par with how I want league to be in regards to the weaker regions. FIFA recognise how weak Oceania is so make them go through a tougher qualifying route as they dont have direct entry to the World Cup (although that might change with the expansion of their World Cup). The winner of the Oceania qualifiers has to play-off with the 5th placed South American team, the 4th place North/Central American team and the 5th place Asian team. Who ever wins of those teams goes through to the World Cup. Its better this way cos a lot of good European/American teams would miss out to weak Oceania teams.

    Its similar with Rugby Union for the next World Cup at least. Because Japan are hosting it they automatically qualify so that leaves the Asian qualifying spot up for grabs. Japan are usually the qualifiers for Asia so that creates a problem because the other Asian teams are piss-weak so the IRB are making the winner of the Asian qualifier go through a play-off series with the winner of Oceania (rest of Oceania not including Samoa,Fiji,Tonga)...who ever wins that goes into a repechage tournament with the fringe teams who didnt make it from some other region qualifiers.

    I reckon for league it is less of a hassle if we just use the Emerging Nations as the qualifiers for the fringe teams instead. If those fringe teams from Europe/Americas or Africa/Middle East are good enough they will make it. I would settle for at least the winner of the Emerging Nations tournament qualifying for the next World Cup as per Adam's suggestion of one qualifier up for grabs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  20. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    So we now know the qualifiers will be completed in 2019 giving all teams an almost 2 year run-up to prepare for the WC.
    If I understand correctly, nations must be Affiliate Members to enter WC Qualification process?
    Which gives us the following challengers for qualification:

    Americas
    Canada
    Jamaica
    USA
    (Unlikely for any more to meet Affiliate standards by 2018-19)

    Asia-Pacific
    Australia
    New Zealand
    Samoa
    Fiji
    PNG
    Tonga
    Cook Islands
    (Philippines, Thailand, Vanuatu could possible reach Affiliate status in time)

    Europe
    Spain
    Czech Republic
    France
    Italy
    Latvia
    Malta
    England
    Ireland
    Norway
    Russia
    Scotland
    Serbia
    Ukraine
    Wales
    (with maybe Poland, Hungary possibly reaching Affiliate status in time)

    Middle East and Africa
    Lebanon
    South Africa
    (Unlikely for any more to meet Affiliate standards by 2018-19)

    So the qualification picture *should* look something this:

    Americas
    Americas Cup mid-2019
    up to 2 places available, 3rd may enter possible playoff

    Asia-Pacific

    Asia-Pacific Cup B series/playoff 2018. Two or more of Cook Islands, Philippines, Thailand, Vanuatu might play off to qualify for the Pacific A qualifying series next year.
    Asia-Pacific Cup A series/playoff mid-2019. Nations that fail to auto qualify vs Cup B winners for the final WC spots.
    up to 4 places available (after auto-qualifying), 6th or 7th may enter possible playoff

    Europe

    European Qualifiers C South series early 2018. Czech Republic, Ukraine, Hungary play off for chance to enter B level cup.
    European Qualifiers C North series early 2018. Latvia, Norway, Poland play off for chance to enter B level cup.
    European Qualifiers B series late 2018. Spain, Russia, Serbia play off with C level winners for chance to enter A level qualification series.
    European Qualifiers A series late 2019. 17WC Nations that fail to auto qualify play off vs B level winners for final WC spots.
    Up to 7 spots available.

    MEA
    *MEA Cup playoff 2018. South Africa v Lebanon. Winner enters WC or playoff.
    *Occurs if Lebanon fail to auto qualify. Otherwise SA wins by default.

    Playoff
    **Playoff series late 2019. MEA winner v Pacific 6/7th (v American 2/3rd)
    **Occurs if all Pacific nations auto qualify or if Lebanon auto qualify
     

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