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Round 1 2015 Team

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
12,070
That i understand, Peats plays above his weight and is a mad merkin and a 20 min rest wouldn't do him any harm at all. What i don't understand is the calls to bring IDG on and then move Peats into the pack which will weaken us from dummy half and in the back row.

Yeah, that makes no sense!!
 

Joely01

Bench
Messages
4,553
If we rest peats for 20 min that is 2 less interchanges we can use for our bigger men who prob need the rest more.

Leave him on, let IDG do the work for a 20 min period and refresh peats during that.
It's not a stupid idea and a few teams tried it this year, and the Aussie team is currently doing it
 

T.S Quint

Coach
Messages
15,476
Cameron Smith and Robbie Farah are about 10 years older than Peats and they can get through moutains of defence and still be brilliant in attack over a full 80 mins.

But nah, maybe they should be benched to bring on someone less talented.
Or even worse, have them move to another position where they are much less effective.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
95,885
Leave him on, let IDG do the work for a 20 min period and refresh peats during that.
It's not a stupid idea and a few teams tried it this year, and the Aussie team is currently doing it

Rep teams are a poor model because they don't have to worry about a salary cap.

Cameron Smith is a lot more versatile (and bigger) than either of Parra's hookers, and Hunt offers more out of dummy half than Smith (the man he comes on to replace) and De Gois (the closest analogue in our set up).
 
Messages
19,724
Rep teams are a poor model because they don't have to worry about a salary cap.

Cameron Smith is a lot more versatile (and bigger) than either of Parra's hookers, and Hunt offers more out of dummy half than Smith (the man he comes on to replace) and De Gois (the closest analogue in our set up).

Wikipedia lists both Peats and Smith at 90kgs, with Smith being 4cm taller.
 

forward pass

Coach
Messages
10,239
I think you will find that Peats will shift to lock when De Gois comes on. Will add some spark around the ruck and with Peats still out there we could be quite damaging.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
95,885
There's no such thing! There's a half and a five-eight, and that's all there is!

Sure but suppose we are planning to shift the ball from the right post. That's a big blind side, and a fairly common position to attack from. The 'halfback' is keeping the middle defenders (including markers) honest at first receiver on the right, with his edge forward, centre and winger outside him, plus a tight forward off his inside shoulder. Meanwhile the 'five-eighth' is out on the left with his wing, centre, edge forward and the fullback outside him. You want to get the ball out to the 'five-eighth' but the dummy half doesn't dare try to throw a long floating pass that far because the 'five-eighth' will get smashed, if the pass isn't intercepted. You also can't just put it through the hands because the defence will read the play too easily and also smash the 'five-eighth' as he receives the pass.

The solution, used by both Des Hasler and Brad Arthur (among other coaches to varying degrees) is to employ a first receiver that doesn't just catch-pass, but provides a ball playing threat to a 'decoy' runner (who has to be a genuine option in order to effectively function as a decoy) and therefore keeps the defence honest, allowing the deep pass to the 'five-eighth'.

Not many players can effectively make this decision (whether to pass short or out the back depending on the defence), nor are they able to make both the passes required for the defence to feel properly threatened. You could use the 'halfback' whose side of the field is 'blind' for that play (and plenty of teams do, including Manly), but if he is looping from the blind to the open then you're removing the blind side as an option (unless you have a playmaking edge forward like Glenn Stewart) and telegraphing which way the play is going. That helps the defence make the right decision sooner, which the attacking team certainly doesn't want to do.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,676
Hey Pou, that's a good explanation. Why do you think not many players can make the quick decision to either play short or long on the open shift? I think there are prob more edge forwards that could (eg sonny bill, Glenn Stewart, Mateo)but they are better suited to the edge for a variety of reasons. Where as Sef Paulo (also a ball playing back rower) can't defend well on the edge. If sef could defend on the edge do you think we would play him there rather than in the middle?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
95,885
Hey Pou, that's a good explanation. Why do you think not many players can make the quick decision to either play short or long on the open shift?

Dunno mate, I guess it requires a rare mix of learned skills and innate traits. And it's not even that very few players could do it (at all), but rather that very few could do it consistently well that the benefits outweigh the risks.

I think there are prob more edge forwards that could (eg sonny bill, Glenn Stewart, Mateo)but they are better suited to the edge for a variety of reasons.

Agreed there are a few edge forwards that would be great at the role, but one reason they play on the edge rather than in the middle is that edge forward is a more 'important' position in both attack and defence.

In attack it is so important because a dangerous edge forward can either run at an isolated defender or be used as a decoy for creating space for the outside backs. He also provides a safe option for an under pressure half - turning a messy, disrupted shift play into a quick play-the-ball and more attacking footy on the next tackle.

In defence edge forward is so important because he protects the half on his outside as well as being able to help the middle defender on his inside. Plus the consequence of a missed tackle on the edges is worse because edge defenders are isolated more often and they are further away from the cover defence. Finally, the reduced workrate on the edges means it is easier for a quality forward to play 80 minutes.

Where as Sef Paulo (also a ball playing back rower) can't defend well on the edge. If sef could defend on the edge do you think we would play him there rather than in the middle?

No because he's also a weak runner that doesn't attract defenders or overpower an isolated defender for linebreaks or quick play-the-balls. He has more passing options closer to centrefield, and that plays to his strength.
 
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