2018 Trials

[OldPanther]

To me these are the only relevent stats. The ME the sample size is too small to be of note:


How many games each coach has won and the winning %. The NRL don't adjust winning teams into whether their squad was poor or average. That doesn't appear in the winners coloumn. Neither where the opposition is placed on the NRL ladder.

Ivan's gone to the GF and took us took 1 game before the finals.

 

[mxlegend99]

All coaches have faults.

Even though I wasn't signed up on this forum during the Cleary years his faults (yes folks he had them) have magically gone to the ether.

Cleary was not great about moving players on when it was obvious that it needed to happen. Moylan was perhaps the best example. He gave him 1/2 a game in a trial at 5/8th and then pulled him back to fullback.

His own son, do you honestly think Nathan would be playing 1st grade in 2017 at Penrith. I believe he would have been left drift the way that ME did with Austin.

Many of those changes in 2015 were due to Clearys inability to pick the appropriate person for the job and then make sure they did OK. Soward should have had back surgery after the 2014 season, not waiting till it all went splat in about April.

Hook has brought through some great kids, I think nearly all have scored a try on debut, and not looked out of place in the NRL. I know this is not down to luck. It's called coaching.

So those holding up Cleary as some sort of an icon. Clearly there is some short to mid term memory loss going on.

Actually... hook did that. Trial against Bulldogs in 2016..he hurt his back and Hook played him
80 minutes the following week vs Eels too.

Talk about memory loss. You have no f**king idea on what happened in 2014, 2015 or 2016.

 

[OldPanther]

Actually... hook did that. Trial against Bulldogs in 2016..he hurt his back and Hook played him
80 minutes the following week vs Eels too.

Talk about memory loss. You have no f**king idea on what happened in 2014, 2015 or 2016.

"So those holding up Cleary as some sort of an icon. Clearly there is some short to mid term memory loss going on."

That was pretty funny.

 

[mxlegend99]

Atleast he admits that was a poor decision. Just blamed tge wrong coach for it.

Clearys preferred spine was:
1. Moylan
6. Soward
7. Wallace
9. Segeyaro

I would have preferred:
1. Dwz
6. Moylan
7. Soward
9. Segeyaro

So i never thought he was perfect. Just better than Hook.

 

[TheFrog]

What everyone fails to realize is ''it all doesn't matter '' as Penrith is expanding into QLD as this is Goulds focus . He. stated in the beginning that the Broncos were the model to copy and is slowly relocating the Panthers to the Gold Coast to avoid ever having to merge with another club when Beatty brings in the NRL'S expansion plan.

If that's the plan, its a dumb plan. I'd rather merge with Parramatta.

 

[TheFrog]

Ivan's gone to the GF and took us took 1 game before the finals.

Yep, he had one very good year in four. I think he was a bit lost at the pointy end though.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Hook has brought through some great kids, I think nearly all have scored a try on debut, and not looked out of place in the NRL. I know this is not down to luck. It's called coaching.

It also could be called Garth Brennan.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Now, on this point the jury is still out on whether Cleary is a top notch halfback or just a good halfback. He very rarely plays what's in front of him and reverts to the set play (usually a midfield bomb). He will play whats in front of him if he sees an opportunity to use his speed and step, he is comfortable backing himself. But he won't make plays and spot numbers and manufacture an overload down a blindside or get a forward to run at somebody he spotted who is knackered. It could be a lack of confidence so he just does what the coach says, or he just doesn't spot space. Luke Walsh couldn't see a gap if it had neon signs and a laser show lighting the way. JT can smell gaps and creates overlaps all the time. Darius Boyd owes him a 1,000 beers for all the tries he got off JT's passes. If we think the coach Meninga creates those plays, they are kidding themselves.

Brilliant point. I'd be very hesitant offering Cleary a million a season. Lacks vision and creativity.

Extremely courageous, a competitor, a great support player, top goalkicker and defends really well. Those are his strengths.

I'll get absolutely hounded for this but I actually think he would be a better hooker with his speed. That try he set up against the Roosters in the trial for example was from dummy half.

 

[mxlegend99]

Yep, he had one very good year in four. I think he was a bit lost at the pointy end though.

His first 2 seasons were rebuilding the club. Surely the fact those seasons led to a top 4 finish in his third season makes them successful rebuilding seasons.

He improved us in each season he was here until 2015. 2015 was a terrible year. For sure. But the silver lining was thd crucial experience depth players got for 2016.

Hook had a top 4 capable roster handed to him along with a reserve grade side stacked with experience.

Cleary took over from a club where the players ran it and needed to suffer through losing our best players before buying/devrloping new stars. Which he did help us do.

This is Hooks third season and the club has shown no signs of improvement since he arrived. Atleast Cleary was building something. This is the same point in time where Ivan got us to top 4 and week 3 of finals. Heres hoping we do that under Hook slso.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Brilliant point. I'd be very hesitant offering Cleary a million a season. Lacks vision and creativity.

Extremely courageous, a competitor, a great support player, top goalkicker and defends really well. Those are his strengths.

I'll get absolutely hounded for this but I actually think he would be a better hooker with his speed. That try he set up against the Roosters in the trial for example was from dummy half.

Hadn’t considered hooker, interesting.

I have mentioned previously that I think he could be more of a running 5/8 though. We’ll need to see improvement this year but I still think he’ll get big bucks, there’s just a shortage of halves.

 

[herbert henry1908]

What everyone fails to realize is ''it all doesn't matter '' as Penrith is expanding into QLD as this is Goulds focus . He. stated in the beginning that the Broncos were the model to copy and is slowly relocating the Panthers to the Gold Coast to avoid ever having to merge with another club when Beatty brings in the NRL'S expansion plan.

Surely you’re taking the piss?

 

[Panther_Daz]

Hadn’t considered hooker, interesting.

The first few times I saw Cleary play was at Hooker. Back in Harold Matts in 2013. I thought he looked outstanding there. He was quick so it enabled him to get in behind the markers if they were lazy. Just like he did 2 weeks ago against the Roosters.

 

[YoungPanther]

I tend to agree with everything you say Daz and respect your opinions, but disagree about Nathan possibly moving to hooker. I concur with everything you described in his strengths and weaknesses. You must remember he is only 19 (might be a song in there). If you compare with say Brodie Croft/Ash Taylor there weaknesses would also be vision and creativity too. I put it down to age, experience and confidence.

The big question is will Nathan develop these attributes? He seems to be surrounded by great centres of influence and I hear nothing but how hard he works on his game, so you would be optimistic he could. Not comparing to Cronk, but he also had to work on developing these exact attributes and it appears Nathan is dedicated enough to also. Don't forget Cronk also started as a hooker, so the skill set is somewhat interchangeable.

You pay more for 7's than 9's, so unless we replaced him with someone in-house, would cost a premium to get another number 7.

 

[Panther_Daz]

I tend to agree with everything you say Daz and respect your opinions, but disagree about Nathan possibly moving to hooker. I concur with everything you described in his strengths and weaknesses. You must remember he is only 19 (might be a song in there). If you compare with say Brodie Croft/Ash Taylor there weaknesses would also be vision and creativity too. I put it down to age, experience and confidence.

The big question is will Nathan develop these attributes? He seems to be surrounded by great centres of influence and I hear nothing but how hard he works on his game, so you would be optimistic he could. Not comparing to Cronk, but he also had to work on developing these exact attributes and it appears Nathan is dedicated enough to also. Don't forget Cronk also started as a hooker, so the skill set is somewhat interchangeable.

You pay more for 7's than 9's, so unless we replaced him with someone in-house, would cost a premium to get another number 7.

Fair points. I also don't know how much is due to actual game plan and what he is told to do. As others have pointed out on this forum, creative players have not exactly flourished under Griffin's coaching.

 

[franklin2323]

Fair points. I also don't know how much is due to actual game plan and what he is told to do. As others have pointed out on this forum, creative players have not exactly flourished under Griffin's coaching.

Griffin or no Griffin. I doubt Brandy is teaching them 5 hit ups and then bomb. So some of it has to be lack vision while out there

 

[herbert henry1908]

Fair points. I also don't know how much is due to actual game plan and what he is told to do. As others have pointed out on this forum, creative players have not exactly flourished under Griffin's coaching.

Interestingly we did see a little more creative kicking when Cleary first debuted, perhaps he was told to reign that in?

 

[Panther_Daz]

Interestingly we did see a little more creative kicking when Cleary first debuted, perhaps he was told to reign that in?

Just like our offloads.

 

[Pomoz]

Brilliant point. I'd be very hesitant offering Cleary a million a season. Lacks vision and creativity.

Extremely courageous, a competitor, a great support player, top goalkicker and defends really well. Those are his strengths.

I'll get absolutely hounded for this but I actually think he would be a better hooker with his speed. That try he set up against the Roosters in the trial for example was from dummy half.

Wow, interesting and thoughtful point. He is a big enough unit. Smith is probably the best ever with the body of an accountant, Clearly could do a good job. Luau to halfback? Kicking options everywhere then......a cunning plan.

 

[Pomoz]

Doubled up.

 

[TheFrog]

His first 2 seasons were rebuilding the club.

Actually in 2013 we were every chance of making the finals, being level with the Knights when the two sides met in Round 19 at Penrith. It is now history that the Knights went on to make the third week of the finals while we crashed on the back of back-to-back-to-back-to-back floggings. You can make all the excuses you like for 2013, but the truth is we were in a position to do some good, and couldn't. Whereas in '16 and '17 were in a position to do some good and did just that.