2018 Trials

[umina panther]

You give up too easy.

Good or bad squads aren't a matter of opinion. Surely even you know that?

 

[herbert henry1908]

The stats that matter are Hooks record against top 4 & top 8 teams.

9% win rate against top 4 (1 from 11)

33% win rate against top 8 (6 from 18)

(At the panthers)


These stats show we can’t even perform well against the teams close to us on the table. But we easily beat teams well below us.

The cricket term is flat track bullies.

 

[martielang]

Of course they’re the only stats that matter to you, because they’re the only stats that back up your point.

 

[umina panther]

Of course they’re the only stats that matter to you, because they’re the only stats that back up your point.

Are we here to win comps or to get an encouragement award?

 

[TheFrog]

To me these are the only relevent stats. The ME the sample size is too small to be of note:


How many games each coach has won and the winning %. The NRL don't adjust winning teams into whether their squad was poor or average. That doesn't appear in the winners coloumn. Neither where the opposition is placed on the NRL ladder.

Matt Elliott had a 43% win percentage at Penrith. Pretty close to the overall club average over 51 years. Not too sure why this Ferguson would try to represent otherwise.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

They can’t be easily compared.

Cleary had to do a complete rebuild. Hooks rebuild was much smaller. The squad, despite an appalling 2015, was largely intact.

Your right with that. Now who is responsible for the appalling 2015.

Cause I believe some of this forum look at the past via rose tinted glasses.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Matt Elliott had a 43% win percentage at Penrith. Pretty close to the overall club average over 51 years.

This was taken through Gould's time at Penrith *not pre.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

and I wasn't giving Ivan the excuse of injuries I was saying he and Ronnie were the cause of most of them. I have given Hook/Gus credit before for turning that around

Where ?

 

[TheFrog]

Good or bad squads aren't a matter of opinion. Surely even you know that?

Well of your list of bums, only Ciraldo wasn't really first grade standard.

 

[Port Panther]

What everyone fails to realize is ''it all doesn't matter '' as Penrith is expanding into QLD as this is Goulds focus . He. stated in the beginning that the Broncos were the model to copy and is slowly relocating the Panthers to the Gold Coast to avoid ever having to merge with another club when Beatty brings in the NRL'S expansion plan.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Your right with that. Now who is responsible for the appalling 2015.

Cause I believe some of this forum look at the past via rose tinted glasses.

Cleary has to take some of the blame, but I do honestly believe it was the injuries that killed us the most.

Our spine players (Moylan,Wallace, Seg, Soward) missed 34 of their 96 matches. (Almost triple 2017 for instance)

We had 8 different halves combinations in the first 10 rounds, and 11 combinations all up!



Wallace/Soward
Wallace/John
Wallace/Cartwright
Wallace/Koroisau
John/Koroisau
John/Smith
Soward/John
Soward/Koroisau
Wallace/Peachey
Soward/Peachey
Peachey/Koroisau

 

[franklin2323]

Your right with that. Now who is responsible for the appalling 2015.

Cause I believe some of this forum look at the past via rose tinted glasses.

Most do that very thing. Cleary had plenty of time to move Moylan. 2014 we had Naiqama in NSW Cup and Will Smith in the halves. Either could of got moved... Yet it is only Hook's fault

 

[franklin2323]

Are we here to win comps or to get an encouragement award?

55% win is closer to finals then 41% we have had all time.
55% itself is average. If that becomes 70% over the next few seasons. We are pushing for trophies

 

[umina panther]

55% win is closer to finals then 41% we have had all time.
55% itself is average. If that becomes 70% over the next few seasons. We are pushing for trophies

I respect your views on the game even if we don't always agree. Do you believe we can win a comp with Griffin?

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Most do that very thing. Cleary had plenty of time to move Moylan. 2014 we had Naiqama in NSW Cup and Will Smith in the halves. Either could of got moved... Yet it is only Hook's fault

All coaches have faults.

Even though I wasn't signed up on this forum during the Cleary years his faults (yes folks he had them) have magically gone to the ether.

Cleary was not great about moving players on when it was obvious that it needed to happen. Moylan was perhaps the best example. He gave him 1/2 a game in a trial at 5/8th and then pulled him back to fullback.

His own son, do you honestly think Nathan would be playing 1st grade in 2017 at Penrith. I believe he would have been left drift the way that ME did with Austin.

Many of those changes in 2015 were due to Clearys inability to pick the appropriate person for the job and then make sure they did OK. Soward should have had back surgery after the 2014 season, not waiting till it all went splat in about April.

Hook has brought through some great kids, I think nearly all have scored a try on debut, and not looked out of place in the NRL. I know this is not down to luck. It's called coaching.

So those holding up Cleary as some sort of an icon. Clearly there is some short to mid term memory loss going on.

 

[franklin2323]

All coaches have faults.

Even though I wasn't signed up on this forum during the Cleary years his faults (yes folks he had them) have magically gone to the ether.

Cleary was not great about moving players on when it was obvious that it needed to happen. Moylan was perhaps the best example. He gave him 1/2 a game in a trial at 5/8th and then pulled him back to fullback.

His own son, do you honestly think Nathan would be playing 1st grade in 2017 at Penrith. I believe he would have been left drift the way that ME did with Austin.

Many of those changes in 2015 were due to Clearys inability to pick the appropriate person for the job and then make sure they did OK. Soward should have had back surgery after the 2014 season, not waiting till it all went splat in about April.

Hook has brought through some great kids, I think nearly all have scored a try on debut, and not looked out of place in the NRL. I know this is not down to luck. It's called coaching.

So those holding up Cleary as some sort of an icon. Clearly there is some short to mid term memory loss going on.

Cleary was great on gameday and tactics were good. He was too defensive with team selection. Injuries were a blessing sometimes to get players we needed in

 

[herbert henry1908]

Most people I’ve seen thought the movement from Cleary to Hook was sideways, they’re pretty much on par coaching wise. Only real difference is Cleary has had more success at the end of the season. Cleary having 3 preliminary finals & 1 grand final to Hooks 1 prelim

 

[Pomoz]

All coaches have faults.
Hook has brought through some great kids, I think nearly all have scored a try on debut, and not looked out of place in the NRL. I know this is not down to luck. It's called coaching.

I agree with this point, but you also have to accept if you finish 7th and yet have the worst attack in the red zone in the entire NRL, your coaches and players struggle in attack. Hook is not good at coaching attack, we look lost at times.

Now, some people say "it's all the coach", but that would mean that Bellamy could coach a halves combination of Luke Walsh and Travis Burns to be as effective as Cronk and Munster. Clearly, both players and coaches have their part to play, if they didn't halves wouldn't get paid as much as they do.

Now, on this point the jury is still out on whether Cleary is a top notch halfback or just a good halfback. He very rarely plays what's in front of him and reverts to the set play (usually a midfield bomb). He will play whats in front of him if he sees an opportunity to use his speed and step, he is comfortable backing himself. But he won't make plays and spot numbers and manufacture an overload down a blindside or get a forward to run at somebody he spotted who is knackered. It could be a lack of confidence so he just does what the coach says, or he just doesn't spot space. Luke Walsh couldn't see a gap if it had neon signs and a laser show lighting the way. JT can smell gaps and creates overlaps all the time. Darius Boyd owes him a 1,000 beers for all the tries he got off JT's passes. If we think the coach Meninga creates those plays, they are kidding themselves.

He has time on his side and with some help and coaching, he could improve those aspects of his game. But he is not a natural at it like Brandy or JT, he will need to work at it. I hope he can step up.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Yep the red zone stuff was horrible last year. Like watching me attempt to play footy (no idea). I think that's why Jimmy was bought. Moylan at times looked just clueless in how to assist Cleary in structuring an attack.

Hopefully Jimmy will also mentor Tyrone May into his position, (as Jimmy doesn't stay more than a couple of years)

Your comments about Bellamy are very true. Has he ever coached an 'average' size without the big 3 or 4. With the big 3 or 4 he does may average journery men look so much better. Finch and Newton good examples.

Brandy was so very special. Gould had a huge hand in his development. Hopefully he can do the same for Nathan.

Cause sure as eggs with Panthers thrive in 2018 / 19 and W/T flounder I know where Nathan will stay.

 

[franklin2323]

I agree with this point, but you also have to accept if you finish 7th and yet have the worst attack in the red zone in the entire NRL, your coaches and players struggle in attack. Hook is not good at coaching attack, we look lost at times.

Now, some people say "it's all the coach", but that would mean that Bellamy could coach a halves combination of Luke Walsh and Travis Burns to be as effective as Cronk and Munster. Clearly, both players and coaches have their part to play, if they didn't halves wouldn't get paid as much as they do.

Now, on this point the jury is still out on whether Cleary is a top notch halfback or just a good halfback. He very rarely plays what's in front of him and reverts to the set play (usually a midfield bomb). He will play whats in front of him if he sees an opportunity to use his speed and step, he is comfortable backing himself. But he won't make plays and spot numbers and manufacture an overload down a blindside or get a forward to run at somebody he spotted who is knackered. It could be a lack of confidence so he just does what the coach says, or he just doesn't spot space. Luke Walsh couldn't see a gap if it had neon signs and a laser show lighting the way. JT can smell gaps and creates overlaps all the time. Darius Boyd owes him a 1,000 beers for all the tries he got off JT's passes. If we think the coach Meninga creates those plays, they are kidding themselves.

He has time on his side and with some help and coaching, he could improve those aspects of his game. But he is not a natural at it like Brandy or JT, he will need to work at it. I hope he can step up.

Meninga is perfect example of something we should copy. I wouldn't mind seeing a stat on those penalties given away on the line. I am pretty sure the teams we struggle against are the worst offenders.

It works though. Gus will get around that and then watch out