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NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

Who would you admit as the next team into the NRL?

  • Perth

    Votes: 75 57.7%
  • PNG

    Votes: 8 6.2%
  • Wellington/2nd NZ team

    Votes: 5 3.8%
  • Adelaide

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • Darwin

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Fiji

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Central Coast

    Votes: 10 7.7%
  • Central Queensland/4th Queensland team

    Votes: 12 9.2%
  • Samoa

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Other (please specify)/No Expansion

    Votes: 12 9.2%

  • Total voters
    130

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
There are going to be more than 4 million people living in Western Sydney by 2050.

To suggest this stronghold of the game have as many teams as Wellington or Rockhampton in either trolling or stupidity...

Do you need 4 teams for 4 million people in 32 years time? I’d suggest not if you want to get large crowds now.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
Haha Godwin’s law makes an appearance!

Super League is basically the Godwin's law of this forum anyway...

It's amazing how quickly discussions like this one are straw manned and/or totally misrepresented into "Super League" and "what about the AFL" arguments.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
Haha Godwin’s law makes an appearance!


Super league was a success ,based on your expansionary theories. What the!!!
Melbourne was a success, but without News ATT,I doubt it would have remained then.

Until such time as it can be shown, either by evidence or a survey of Sydney club members about overwhelmingly agreeing to relocation or a club goes down the gurgler due to inefficient management,then you have a realistic argument about Sydney clubs being rationalised.
Plus of course proof the Tv stations will pay more for less, for a Sydney market penetration.ATM the Sydney market is helping maintain TV ratings overall, despite a FTA drop, but an increase in Pay.

Otherwise you are playing pins on maps from your basement.Something to date you are an expert at.

I am bemused when SL is brushed off ,as some sort of minor disruption,just because it happened 20+ years ago.The fact it emptied rugby leagues 'war chest" meant nothing.The fact North Sydney is a vacuum meant nothing.It was a reality ,which nearly killed the code .The fact teh Swans made hay ATT meant nothing.None so blind.

It will be continually brought up, against those who glibly push the chop Sydney clubs routine,without firm evidence it will be a success, both TV contract wise, fanwise and not a leg up to other codes.So far I've read little to back up the argument convincingly.

I am for expansion but not at the further dilution of the Sydney supporter base, who have been screwed this year by poor performances on the field, and salary cap issues with two of the most popular clubs Eels and Dogs.
Should a club go broke, by all means ,it if means their long term survival,move the team to Cocos Island,if need be.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
Super league was a success ,based on your expansionary theories. What the!!!
Melbourne was a success, but without News ATT,I doubt it would have remained then.

Until such time as it can be shown, either by evidence or a survey of Sydney club members about overwhelmingly agreeing to relocation or a club goes down the gurgler due to inefficient management,then you have a realistic argument about Sydney clubs being rationalised.
Plus of course proof the Tv stations will pay more for less, for a Sydney market penetration.ATM the Sydney market is helping maintain TV ratings overall, despite a FTA drop, but an increase in Pay.

Otherwise you are playing pins on maps from your basement.Something to date you are an expert at.

I am bemused when SL is brushed off ,as some sort of minor disruption,just because it happened 20+ years ago.The fact it emptied rugby leagues 'war chest" meant nothing.The fact North Sydney is a vacuum meant nothing.It was a reality ,which nearly killed the code .The fact teh Swans made hay ATT meant nothing.None so blind.

It will be continually brought up, against those who glibly push the chop Sydney clubs routine,without firm evidence it will be a success, both TV contract wise, fanwise and not a leg up to other codes.So far I've read little to back up the argument convincingly.

I am for expansion but not at the further dilution of the Sydney supporter base, who have been screwed this year by poor performances on the field, and salary cap issues with two of the most popular clubs Eels and Dogs.
Should a club go broke, by all means ,it if means their long term survival,move the team to Cocos Island,if need be.

It's "brushed off" because it's a false equivalency!

Absolutely nobody is suggesting a Super League style splitting of the comp into two separate entities both of which are fighting for dominance over the other, absolutely nobody is suggesting the rushed poor excuse for rationalisation where clubs were wantonly destroyed by two agenda driven groups that was the merger of SL and the ARL to create the NRL either, during which BTW many clubs from outside of Sydney got f**ked over much worse than any of those inside Sydney!

No informed person is even advocating that ANY clubs be folded or cease operations at all, or that they even cease to have their games televised, or whatever it is that you and many others seem to want to think that people are advocating for cause it's easier for you and other like you to fearmonger that way.

Also the irony of you demanding evidence for anything at all while still playing the 'OMG NS is a wasteland where all the Bears fans became AFL fans overnight after the Bears carked it' line is f**king ridiculous to the extreme considering the complete lack of evidence that anything of the sort ever happened on a large scale outside of in the imaginations of some disaster merchant journos looking to create a good story!

or a club goes down the gurgler due to inefficient management,then you have a realistic argument about Sydney clubs being rationalised.

Should a club go broke, by all means ,it if means their long term survival,move the team to Cocos Island,if need be.

And the ridiculous hypocrisy of these bits is palpable as well!

Yeah 'by all means if a Sydney club falls over do what you gotta do... Unless it's the Sharks, like all those times they were f**ked sideways and were bailed out, cause that's different...', I mean Jesus Christ!
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
It might be a "false" equivalency in your eyes, that doesn't mean it is.The common theme is rationalisation.

The Bear's territory is hardly flowing with large numbers following the lower grade team.Other codes seem to be flourishing at grassroots level in that area.
Newtown an exception, could show them a thing re crowds.

Hypocrisy LOL .If my club gets into the financial poo,it relocates I accept the fact.Doesn't mean I'm thrilled at the prospect.I'm talking relocation and/or dropping to a 2nd division.
A club will fold if it can't financially carry on.I've put my hard earned(not chicken feed BTW) into the club, apart from membership ,to assist the club when it was down.Don't tell me how to suck eggs.

Until then ,and provided its paying its way and has the support it currently enjoys and it remains competitive then so be it.
OK the AFL moved into new areas, and are spending a fortune propping up these new teams,they have the money to do so, as a code ATM we don't.

That's why research needs to be done, and indeed Tv execs who pay the TV monies also need to provide some idea of the effect of any Sydney club reductions on their ratings.
In the case of club members,surely they are entitled to some input, unless the club is a basket case.
Members are also stakeholders FHS.


Yeah well , the Sharks are really an isolated case ooh really, no other club financially assisted sheesh.Like the Titans,Knights who had to be taken over by the NRL .

Money repaid by the Sharks.In fact they were in the sights of Arthurson to be flicked/relocated..That's why they jumped at SL.to survive, and I attended the meeting when they decided to go,and saw and heard the angst.False equivalency BS.

The money to the Tigers side(my old man's team) yet to be repaid,the money lent to St George so they could pay their players.The financial problems that struck the Cows/Warriors in their formative years. and Souths.Yep nothing to see here.Sharks were unique. J.C had nothing to do with it, according to reports.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
Super league was a success ,based on your expansionary theories. What the!!!
Melbourne was a success, but without News ATT,I doubt it would have remained then.

Until such time as it can be shown, either by evidence or a survey of Sydney club members about overwhelmingly agreeing to relocation or a club goes down the gurgler due to inefficient management,then you have a realistic argument about Sydney clubs being rationalised.
Plus of course proof the Tv stations will pay more for less, for a Sydney market penetration.ATM the Sydney market is helping maintain TV ratings overall, despite a FTA drop, but an increase in Pay.

Otherwise you are playing pins on maps from your basement.Something to date you are an expert at.

I am bemused when SL is brushed off ,as some sort of minor disruption,just because it happened 20+ years ago.The fact it emptied rugby leagues 'war chest" meant nothing.The fact North Sydney is a vacuum meant nothing.It was a reality ,which nearly killed the code .The fact teh Swans made hay ATT meant nothing.None so blind.

It will be continually brought up, against those who glibly push the chop Sydney clubs routine,without firm evidence it will be a success, both TV contract wise, fanwise and not a leg up to other codes.So far I've read little to back up the argument convincingly.

I am for expansion but not at the further dilution of the Sydney supporter base, who have been screwed this year by poor performances on the field, and salary cap issues with two of the most popular clubs Eels and Dogs.
Should a club go broke, by all means ,it if means their long term survival,move the team to Cocos Island,if need be.

Superleague was a good concept very poorly executed. If ARL and news had been able to come to an agreement in 1995 the game would be much bigger and stronger now.
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I’ve always through the weaker junior numbers in the north of Sydney have far more to do with union being strongest in north sydney. Both union and AFL have traditional been strongest in these upper class areas so I don’t think it’s a surprise that they both have there strongest footholds in here areas. It has always been like that even before super League.

Personally my father was a diehard Bears fan and was devastated when they merged with Manly. But he didn’t stop watching league or change sports. He started loosely following the Knights and over the years is now a passionate Knights fan who still keeps an eye on the Bears in the NSW Cup
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,771
It might be a "false" equivalency in your eyes, that doesn't mean it is.The common theme is rationalisation.

There's no interpretation necessary, you are saying two things are similar or the same when they're not.

The contributing circumstances that lead to both SL and the decisions made during the 'peace deals' simply wouldn't be factors if the NRL were to rationalise right now.
It's simply isn't a comparable set of circumstances at all, therefore it's a false equivalency.

The Bear's territory is hardly flowing with large numbers following the lower grade team.Other codes seem to be flourishing at grassroots level in that area.
Newtown an exception, could show them a thing re crowds.

That's called a straw man.

How about responding to what was actually said instead.

Hypocrisy LOL .If my club gets into the financial poo,it relocates I accept the fact.Doesn't mean I'm thrilled at the prospect.I'm talking relocation and/or dropping to a 2nd division.
A club will fold if it can't financially carry on.I've put my hard earned(not chicken feed BTW) into the club, apart from membership ,to assist the club when it was down.Don't tell me how to suck eggs.

Yes it is hypocrisy cause by your own standards the Sharks would have been folded, relocated, or whatever 50 times over throughout their history!
They weren't folded, you wouldn't have accepted it at the time if they had been, and if the rubber was to actually hit the road you wouldn't support it if it was to happen in the future either!

Until then ,and provided its paying its way and has the support it currently enjoys and it remains competitive then so be it.
OK the AFL moved into new areas, and are spending a fortune propping up these new teams,they have the money to do so, as a code ATM we don't.

I forget the numbers off the top of my head but the cost of running an AFL club is much more than running an NRL club, and if the NRL can get the same return that they do from broadcasters for an added game (which seems a reasonable assumption considering that the NRL's TV rights are roughly the same value as the AFL's despite the fact they are selling one more game a round than the NRL) then we'd be able to prop up the two new team and still take a profit off of the top!

However I doubt that it'd be necessary for the NRL to prop up a Brisbane club and maybe even a Perth club anyway, if they did their due diligence and made sure that the club was being run by capable people.

That's why research needs to be done, and indeed Tv execs who pay the TV monies also need to provide some idea of the effect of any Sydney club reductions on their ratings.

The research has been done, in many countries and in many sports (including Australia in AFL), with the correct planning and given a fair amount of time to develop a new support base you can effectively take a failing/small club with a small fan-base and transplant it into a richer and more populous market and replace the old fan-base and more, get the club much more corporate support, and make it more appealing to broadcasters, advertisers, sponsors, etc, etc.

But again this is a straw man cause I and nobody who is informed on the subject is suggesting that any clubs be removed from a televised product, folded or relocated, that'd be counter productive.
So the TV execs wouldn't be losing those ratings they just wouldn't necessarily be packaged as part of the NRL (competition) but instead as part of the 2nd tier comp.

In the case of club members,surely they are entitled to some input, unless the club is a basket case.
Members are also stakeholders FHS.

Actually no they are neither entitled to input (unless they own some shares in the club) or should their opinions be taken to seriously in the grand scheme of things...

They are emotionally compromised and extremely biased when it comes to the subject, and their input would be completely clouded by that fact, they're also only going to look at it from the point of view of how it effects them and not of how it effects the NRL or the sport as a whole...

Yeah well , the Sharks are really an isolated case ooh really, no other club financially assisted sheesh.Like the Titans,Knights who had to be taken over by the NRL .

Money repaid by the Sharks.In fact they were in the sights of Arthurson to be flicked/relocated..That's why they jumped at SL.to survive, and I attended the meeting when they decided to go,and saw and heard the angst.False equivalency BS.

The money to the Tigers side(my old man's team) yet to be repaid,the money lent to St George so they could pay their players.The financial problems that struck the Cows/Warriors in their formative years. and Souths.Yep nothing to see here.Sharks were unique. J.C had nothing to do with it, according to reports.

Well all that's just blatantly dodging the point that was being made...
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
0F7A7DF2-F976-4ACC-8CF6-8D2BD92C0E71.jpeg
The verdict: If it was up to the players the next two expansion teams would be based in Perth and Brisbane. Nine per cent of players voted against the idea of expansion. ARLC chairman Peter Beattie has indicated the expansion discussion is back on the table but where and how many teams is up in the air. Fiji, on the back of a successful world cup campaign, surprisingly polled well.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/08/05...---preferred-clubs-timeslots-expansion-nines/
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
Superleague was a good concept very poorly executed. If ARL and news had been able to come to an agreement in 1995 the game would be much bigger and stronger now.

The peace settlement did more damage than the war IMO...

- News Ltd pulled the plug on Perth & Adelaide - two markets that could have really brought value in the long term.
- The ARL didn't "go in to bat" for the Crushers or Chargers, allowing them to die & leaving SE Qld as a Broncos monopoly.
- Sydney had a poorly executed rationalisation.. with a contentious 'criteria', shotgun marriages, and joint ventures that made little geographical sense.
- News Ltd kept a 50% stake in the game, giving a broadcaster unprecidented say in the operation of the competition.

Sure, you can say that *IF* the ARL & News had negotiated something in 1995, the game would be better too.. but there was still a chance to have a decent outcome if the 1997 negotiations had a long-term outlook.

Sadly, both sides prioritised self-interest & short-term gains instead.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
The peace settlement did more damage than the war IMO...

- News Ltd pulled the plug on Perth & Adelaide - two markets that could have really brought value in the long term.
- The ARL didn't "go in to bat" for the Crushers or Chargers, allowing them to die & leaving SE Qld as a Broncos monopoly.
- Sydney had a poorly executed rationalisation.. with a contentious 'criteria', shotgun marriages, and joint ventures that made little geographical sense.
- News Ltd kept a 50% stake in the game, giving a broadcaster unprecidented say in the operation of the competition.

Sure, you can say that *IF* the ARL & News had negotiated something in 1995, the game would be better too.. but there was still a chance to have a decent outcome if the 1997 negotiations had a long-term outlook.

Sadly, both sides prioritised self-interest & short-term gains instead.

No one could ever accuse rugby league of having great leadership!
I often wonder how those guys in Huddersfield ever made the decision and created the game with their ballsy decision to form the northern union. Seems we’ve been blighted with ineffective management ever since!
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
No one could ever accuse rugby league of having great leadership!
I often wonder how those guys in Huddersfield ever made the decision and created the game with their ballsy decision to form the northern union. Seems we’ve been blighted with ineffective management ever since!

The game's management couldn't tip water out of a shoe if the instructions were written on the heel.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
5,328
North QLD
Brisbane
Brisbane
Gold Coast
Auckland
Wellington
Newcastle
Gosford
Illawarra
Canberra
Melbourne
Perth

No room for Sydney clubs? Or......

Newcastle
Manly
Sydney Roosters
Souths
St George Illawarra
Penrith
Canterbury
Parramatta
Wests Tigers
Canberra
Brisbane
North QLD

No room for clubs outside of the heartlands?

Not one of your best Joey....
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,442
This is absolutely true. The "reunification" was when the blood really started to flow. :/

Basically this:
News: "this has got to stop. We're just gonna lose money.. can we end this war? All we want is to give the Broncos a free run in Queensland & cut a few Sydney teams..."
ARL: "OK, we'll give the Broncos free run in SE Queensland - we should probably keep the Cowboys though.. they're rubbish anyway, and they're no threat to the Broncos all the way up there. Yeah and we'll sort out Sydney.. how about some kinda criteria? Nah.. we won't manage this, just tell the losers to merge or die, let THEM choose"
News: "Cool. Hey, mind if we let Perth & Adelaide die? They cost us a shed load of money to run.."
ARL: "Yeah, Sweet. They won't even miss 'em. It might go down well with our Sydney clubs too.. far less travel "
News: "Cool, and we get the Pay TV rights for keeps, yeah?"
ARL: "Yeah. Partners?"
News: *smiling* "Partners."
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,849
I said positive damn it

oh sorry,
This is great news. To see the NRL have firm and definite plans for NRL expansion is a breath of fresh air and now we can all sit back and be confident that by 2023 the game will be in such a strong positon that this very carefully thought out and resourced expansion strategy will come to fruition.
 
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